1y ago

Chat Control 2.0: EU governments set to approve the end of private messaging and secure encryption

www.patrick-breyer.de Chat Control 2.0: EU governments set to approve the end of private messaging and secure encryption

By making a minor concession EU governments hope to find a majority next week to approve the controversial „chat control“ bill. According to the proposed child sexual abuse regulation (CSAR), providers of messengers, e-mail and chat services would be forced to automatically search all private messag

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Chat Control 2.0: EU governments set to approve the end of private messaging and secure encryption

www.patrick-breyer.de /en/chat-control-2-0-eu-governments-set-to-approve-the-end-of-private-messaging-and-secure-encryption/

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Chat Control 2.0: EU governments set to approve the end of private messaging and secure encryption

www.patrick-breyer.de /en/chat-control-2-0-eu-governments-set-to-approve-the-end-of-private-messaging-and-secure-encryption/

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Privacy Guides @lemmy.one

Chat Control 2.0: EU governments set to approve the end of private messaging and secure encryption

www.patrick-breyer.de /en/chat-control-2-0-eu-governments-set-to-approve-the-end-of-private-messaging-and-secure-encryption/

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71 comments

Its really really great that in a time where fascists gain more and more influence in several EU states, we also make it possible to massively spy on citizens :)
- I am sure they will only use it against Pedos and Terrorists! ;)
  
  Europol already said it would use it to fight „illegal migration“ and „human traffickers“ and drug dealers
  A french politian demanded to use it against „Drag Queens“ and museums
  An italian politian proposed to use chat control against „human traficking“ (in this case a dogwhistle for people, that rescue migrants), organ traffickers, illegal trading of weapons and drug dealers.
  Some important german polititians want to expand it against antisemitism, far right extremism and child pornography
  A lobbyist and another german politian want to also use it against illegally downloaded movies and music.
  https://netzpolitik.org/2023/ueberwachung-politiker-fordern-ausweitung-der-chatkontrolle-auf-andere-inhalte/ (article in german)
- And they'll screech like banshees when you mention the same or higher standards of transparency should apply to the rich and politicians themselves.
- They’re the same people.
  
  Well, not the same people. The surveillance people are authoritarian fascists that have been in government parties a lot longer than the newer parties with similar views.

Fourthly, scanning for known, thus old material does not help identify and rescue victims, or prevent child sexual abuse. It will actually make safeguarding victims more difficult by pushing criminals to secure, decentralised communication channels which are impossible to intercept even with a warrant.
This point is huge, and on its own explains why half baked compromises are worthless.
The criminals will use banned chat apps, while innocent people get their messages read.
- The reason they don't care about that is that the whole thing isn't about protecting children at all but about surveillance of the vast majority of people.
  
  This. There are already plans on expanding what the surveillance is used for, as soon as it is possible to begin with.
  "Think of the children" is just the trick they're using to get their foot in the door. It being utterly ineffective in doing what they claim it'll do, is irrelevant.
- Well that's the point, catching CSAM is just a very convenient excuse. Once that's through, it will just be a matter of extending it to terrorism. Then you can declare anyone a terrorist and bam you have free reign to monitor anyone you want.
  
  Or you could just accuse them of the really dangerous crimes, like copyright violations or insulting politicians.
- Your first mistake was assuming it's an attempt in good faith.

I want cameras and microphones in every politicians house, in every room. These record 24/7 and will be live-streamed on twitch. Any politician against this proposal is obviously a child-abusing terrorist, or do they have something even worse to hide?
- Zero privacy to world leaders and absolute privacy to citizen would be ideal.
- Don't forget all their offices and vehicles.

Time to become a proud criminal. When law becomes tyranny, resistance becomes moral.
- The law restricts providing a commercial service in the EU that provides end-to-end encryption without monitoring of the content of communications, not using end-to-end encryption. Unless you're planning to run some kind of underground messaging service, you probably won't be the one violating the law.
  
  What is to stop a company from offering their services in the EU though? As long as they don't legally cooperate with the EU it should be fine. Like Telegram operating from Russia (if they weren't collaborators already).

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- enters the chat
- Most people don't use PGP/GPG, despite it being generally available.
  If the vast majority of people don't use something, it doesn't matter much whether it exists.
  A service that makes end-to-end encryption easy for the vast bulk of the public is another story.
  
  Most people also do not care about privacy or understand anything about encryption.
  If this shit was to happen, it would hit the news for a cycle, some people would get slightly upset and then it would go on with the next thing.
  Most people here care a lot about these things and are technically inclined. But we are a minority.
  
  But you know who does use PGP/GPG to manually encrypt their messages?
  Child traffickers.

“If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him.” - Richelieu (disputed)

Lol guess we can kiss post-quantum TLS goodbye.
This is going to have catastrophically negative effects for the internet in general. And, as others have said, actual bad actors will just keep using the most advanced encryption available anyways. This only makes the vast majority of internet users less secure and easier targets for exploitation.

Great. That would probably mean a ban for Telegram would also be needed, as they're known to not bow to local surveillance-laws.
I'm all for doing everything to find effing pedos, but I'll doubt it will help catch one. Who would be so dumb to do illegal things on the surface-web?
- Telegram is already not ~~encrypted~~ end-to-end encrypted by default. Signal is the interesting app - they don't even have the data to bow to data requests.
  
  Of course it is encrypted by default, just not on device, but in the server side. Just like Gmail, office 365, and so many online services that are perfectly secure and that no one mentions as being a problem.
  If you need End to End encryption, you have the option to use it, but being server encrypted it's more convenient for syncing on devices and for uploading files, which I use a lot.
  
  Signal or tgram. Whatever floats your boat and isn't whatapp and co. It's not always about encryption alone. It's also about trust. I trust tgram and Pavel Durov. If one doesn't, go signal & co. Perfectly valid alternative.
  
  Doesn't Signal have backdoors for government agencies or am I mistaken? (Has been a while since I read something like that.)
- not really, cos telegram is not end to end encrypted unless you do not use group chats, and deep dive into the menu to enable secret chat for every individual contact.
  I have no idea why telegram got this secure reputation. it is literally the absolute worst of the bunch, security wise
  
  Encryption wasn't relevant in the context of the surveillance-law, as having ways to decrypt it will be required then and hence make it useless.
  Telegram does not bow. They won't bend their knee to a government wanting them to plant a bot. They then will just be banned.
  Besides, there is end2end-encryption if you want, where is the problen? Noone forces you to use the cloud. And it's also not "hidden deep".

So this is how liberty dies...
I can't see Signal operating in Europe if this is the case. Telegram has already handed over information, so they will likely adapt and continue doing their thing. Meta/WhatsApp will want to keep that money, so they will find a way to operate as well.
I suppose Signal could have a European server, but that might cut them off from the rest of the world.
Might end up using Briar or XMPP.
I haven't given the proposition more than a once-over, but I assume this will cover emails too?
- Crazy how we had protests by right wing maniacs suspecting an evil dictatorship conspiracy behind everything, but when an actual aspect of dictatorship comes, nothing happens.
  I don’t want to live on this planet anymore
- I will probably end up using Matrix but they really have to leave the UK before those facist shits force them to implement a backdoor!

Goodbye data security and privacy... I guess you were nice concepts whilst you lasted.

Germany suggests splitting up child sexual abuse material regulation
Germany has suggested splitting the file into two parts, namely “generally acceptable provisions”, which should remain in the compromise text, and “controversial provisions”, which should be removed. The removed parts should be included in a new draft regulation.
Controversial provisions could be “discussed without time pressure”, to come up with solutions that protect children and also respect data privacy.

Typical Achsel Voss behavior... Fucking fascist.
- He is 1 Hurensohn
  Now I’ll go make coffee for the police raiding me later

How to contact your MEP.
Thanks for the link, but I'm still not sure who to contact. Apparently I'm supposed to know who is "my MEP", but I don't. How to?
- Might depend on your country, but for Germany there are no direct candidates that we votes for. Everybody hat one vote one could give to a party, which had presented a list of people for the election. At the end the party then send the first x people of that list, according to how many of the German representatives were to be send by that party.
  So, effectively all MEP which are German are "my" MEP. Or just the party I voted for if I want to be exclusive.

the proposed text would mandate the implementation of surveillance bugs
And they call it 2.0? I've never seen such a blatant example of version number inflation. It should be called 0.2a, as it's nowhere near ready for release and full of bugs.

Are they proposing opening every letter that goes in the mail too? And checking every memory card that gets sent?
- Reminds me of this: The Post Office Is Spying on the Mail. Senators Want to Stop It: The USPS carries out warrantless surveillance on thousands of parcels every year. Lawmakers are working to end it—right now by Dell Cameron in Wired.
  To initiate this surveillance, the department or agency has at least one hurdle to climb. First, they must submit the request in writing. Then … well, nothing. That is the entire hurdle.
  Edit. Note: this is just the exterior of the mail that's scanned.

The age of stenography has begun!
- Did you mean steganography, ie concealing messages "in plain sight" in otherwise innocuous-looking things like images or audio?
  Stenography is any abbreviated writing system, but not really "coded" in any meaningful way
  
  Yes and yes

As long as it applies to the normalplebian things like WhatsApp, I'm not really concerned nor surprised.
It is up to us to protect themselves and it has been since the wake of malicious ads that track your every click. It's gotten so bad that you'd have to be insane to not use uBlock Origin.
Now it's time to find another means of communication. So many privacy oriented open source apps have come out and all that you need to do is install one and tell your friends.. such as SimpleX Chat and Session Messenger.
Don't sleep on your OPSEC, unless you have a reason to. :)
- As long as it applies to the normalplebian things....I’m not really concerned nor surprised.
  So many privacy oriented open source apps have come out and all that you need to do is install one and tell your friends…
  If you don't want to interact with "normalplebians", I suppose that's one way of looking at it.

71 comments