If you only criticize civilian casualties when Palestine resists, then your concern isn't civilian casualties. Your concern is Palestine resisting massacre.
This meme is from 2004. History repeats itself.
It's important to note that the real disparity may be even far worse.
OCHA-OPT (the committee gathering this data) is strict about verifying validity of Palestinian casualties, requiring two independent, verified and non-affiliated sources. Casualties in Israel, however, they trust the media at face value. They also exclude a lot of Palestinian casualties even when verified in certain situations. Example, and I quote them:
People who were killed or injured in conflict-related incidents that took place in Israel and did not involve residents of the oPt are also excluded.
oPt (occupied Palestinian territories) are the areas that Israel does not directly oversee. So most of Israel is not oPt by their criteria.
Israel is notorious for restricting journalists reporting on Israeli crimes, and has murdered journalists countless of times, like last year the Christian Palestinian Shireen Abu Akleh reporting on the forced expulsion of Palestinians from Sheikh Jarrah (so not even in a war zone area). This causes many casualties to go unverified and thus undocumented.
And Israel has been caught lying before about its own casualties, like the 40 beheaded babies.
Take that as you will.
So seriously, fuck the closet racist xenophobes masquerading as defenders of freedom and democracy here. Tools of the state.
It isn't anti-Semitism to criticize israel, it's just noticing the obvious.
There are criticisms that are antisemitic. This isn't one of them, though.
The only one I can think of is the idea that the Jews made up the Holocaust to guilt the West into giving up Israel...... Which is indeed antisemetic, and asburd
My favorite was when Bernie Sanders was called antisemitic for criticizing Israel. His response was something along the lines of "It isn't antisemitic to criticize a right-wing government in Israel." It must've taken all the patience in the world to not add "you fucking toolbags".
I'm not a Christian, but if Bernie was the second coming...
I'd be only slightly surprised
Fascists get away with conflating Judaism and Zionism because they don't teach that Zionism has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism, and actually goes against a lot of their values. It's actually been around for quite awhile; you know the crusades, when they went around killing a bunch of civilians to set up settlements? Those were Christian Zionists.
That's why it's anti-semitic to conflate the two. One is a religion and the other is a fascist genocidal colonialist movement. So next time you see some german lady shouting down a holocaust survivor for calling out Israeli apartheid (yes, this literally happened, and it was the Jewish guy who got punished) you'll see it for what it is. It's not complicated, it's a clear cut case of modern day nazism.
Amen, who was it who said that the way to find out what group is getting away with too much bullshit is to look at what group you're not allowed to criticize in any Circle?
Dafuq is this meme? civilians are civilians, regardless of the country religion or whatever the duck they're born in.
If civilians are civilians...
"Amongst Israelis, 69% of those killed were civilians and 31% members of the IDF. The number of Israeli civilians killed, from attacks by Palestinian armed groups or individuals, has declined steadily, peaking in 2002 at an average of 22 deaths per month, and dropping markedly to an average of one civilian per month in 2007. 6/
In contrast to Israeli figures, however, Palestinian civilian fatalities have remained high. Palestinian civilians, killed by Israeli security forces, peaked with an average of 35 deaths per month in 2002, and again in 2004. In 2007 they dropped slightly to an average of ten civilian deaths per month."
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-208380/
Both sides kill civilians with abandon, and Israel is markedly better at it. Major media doesn't seem to care very much about Palestinian civilians though.
Do you somehow not realise that is exactly the point being made?
YES, because OP is typing words that can be misconstrued as being a shill or a bigoted asshole. I'm smart enough to recognize it if you point it out, but I'm not fucking psychic, and I'm the kind of person who believes in dream prophesies so that just shows that neither potential delusion nor intelligence have anything to do with people misreading things online. It's just human and technical limitations, but your italics are clear so: if you don't want people to be annoyed at you, maybe respond without being condescending.
Jesus Christ I had to scroll through like, 10 top level comments to find someone with a measure of reason. I'm actually stunned.
Israel kills more civilians.
I agree with the comic. I do however disagree with the title. I think the Hamas' attack shouldn't to be called "resistance", just as Israel's response shouldn't be called "self defense".
This! Was searching the whole comment section and wanted to post it just now and luckily hit refresh.
I agree with you that it needs to be clarified further. While I think it is still "resistance" in the sense that it was done with the intention to resist occupation and all what Israel does, I do agree that civilians died that didn't need to, and it did not lead to positive results.
When you live your whole life in a concentration camp and get bombed almost daily, you may lose some rationality and start justifying more things in the name or resistance. Ultimately I blame Israel for putting them in this situation, and putting civilians so close to their border.
In the end, my whole point is that Hamas attack must not justify a response from Israel. It should lead us to pull back instead.
Is this cartoon originally about the US invading the middle east? Looks like the twin towers in there.
Now your upvote counter is the twin towers.
EDIT: And if you think about it, my upvote counter is the twin towers shortly after
EDIT2: Too far! Too far!
I laughed
Take a look at this guy's other Palestine Israel Post and decide if you wanna upvote this terrorist enjoyer.
https://lemy.lol/post/11080592 for the curious.
On Lemmy, you firstly see the message before the messenger. That is something that makes it magical, it clears your self-history and allow you to have a free mind on ideas presented.
"The genocide must stop" is what you consider to be terrorism? Oh yeah, you must be from the west, where terrorism is resisting massacre.
there is no bigger terrorist than Israel.
free palestine
im not pro palestine im anti israel
war is hell, neither side is good, but resistance is only human
Why not pro Palestine? They are the resistance to Israel.
Lemmy is full of authoritarian xenophobes (read: white kids from wealthy backgrounds) who support the brutalization of the Palestinian people and open air prison they're forced into. That's why you never heard a peep from them about the murders of innocent Palestinians that have been nonstop since the establishment of the Apartheid state of Israel. You won't find much support here among these right wing war mongers.
authoritarian xenophobes
It's OK, this isn't reddit, you can say cracker.
speaking of xenophobes
♬No more Mister Nice Guy
No more Mister Clean
No more Mister Nice Guy
They say he's sick, he's obscene♬
@matchaaddict
The issue here is similar to most of the land contest issues in the world: what historical period you use to determine land ownership. As an example: most of the current territory of Russia was once occupied by Mongolian tribes under the leadership of Chenghis Khan. So if that's the frame of reference you use, Mongolia has legitimate rights to wage war to reclaim their land.
I have a solution for you: why shouldn't we live with Israelis in peace? Why can't we have a Democratic state for all? Israel loses this "historical land" battle, but even if they didn't, does that justify massacre? Palestinians have always advocated a state for all, but Israel never agrees.
@matchaaddict I agree with you. Historically Jews and Arabs that occupied this land are the same people with different religious beliefs. They are all Semites. They should be able to live together.
Globally speaking, the borders of counties are just arbitrarily drawn lines on the map. Lines, drawn by individual people who decided for the masses where they can and cannot have a home.
I believe, we as humans, should abolish borders of any kind.
Man is there any popular meme communities on lemmy that ban Political posts? Getting sick of this community.
I doubt there's any. There's not a good definition of a "political meme" that wouldn't have many people disagreeing whether certain memes are political or not, hence breeding power trip mods and bias. Most likely, it'll just be allowing the political memes that agree with mods opinions, or are status quo to the mods, and hence not seemingly "political" even if it is.
But if you find one, please comment it here. I'd love to see it.
The question of whether politics should be allowed in meme communities is itsself political
Imagine being this deplorable
Not exactly an answer but you can block communities you don't want to see.
I love conflicted podcast. Condensed: fuck organizers of these attacks (likely iran) just before historic peace treaties in the region. They knew fully well what would the response be.
both sides are stupid. youd think after all these years of fighting a compromise could be found, but NO, they just always fight. gives me the feeling that they dont want it any other way.
There's many Palestinians in Israeli territory right now. If they were willing to compromise, they wouldn't be brutalizing them weekly, gassing them in places of prayer and stripping away their rights.
One of my best friends has a whole bunch of Israeli cousins that I'm friendly with when they've visited the states. According to them, a lot of Israeli people have a lot of Palestinian friends and vice versa, especially the younger generations, it's primarily the Israeli government and Hamas that keep this shit going. Most of the average people don't take issue with each other outside of extremists and nationalists on either side, they'd rather just all get along. They say the issue tends to lie with governing authority over holy sites, that Israel is trying to be the big kid on the block in the region, and the Palestinians just want to live in peace with equal rights and to not be treated as substandard citizens on their own land and are rightfully pissed that they keep getting pushed around.
Who's "they", exactly? Certainly not the average Israeli or Palestinian.
I doubt that you will be swayed by facts, but just for the record: in 2000 Israel offered Hamas to become a fully sovereign nation on 100% of Gaza's territory (and 95% of the West Bank) with East Jerusalem as their capital. Hamas declined. In 2005 Israel voluntarily disengaged from Gaza and enabled self-rule, hoping this would be a step towards peace. It wasn't. In 2011 there was another offer for a "two states for two peoples" solution, Hamas once again rejected it.
None of this is surprising since the Hamas is a fanatic Muslim group following the most militant tenets of Islam. Their publicly-stated charter is to utterly destroy Israel ("drive the jews into the sea") and create a Muslim nation on the entire area of Palestine. So anything less than that is a non-starter. Any Jew left alive in Israel means that they haven't finished yet.
Note that there's nothing in the charter about the Palestinian people - The Hamas takes no civic or sovereign responsibility for the population which they govern. In other words, Hamas sees the Palestinian people as a consumable resource in their fight to bring Islam to 100% of the territory historically referred to as "Palestine". So building tunnels under schools and hospitals is allowed. Diverting humanitarian aid to the military infrastructure while the population starves is fine. Indoctrinating children from kindergarten about the glory of killing Jews is standard procedure. etc. Using the Gaza residents as human shields is valuable both for reducing Hamas casualties as well as increasing collateral damage which makes Israel "look bad" in the international community.
Compromise is difficult because when negotiating with someone who wants you dead, how do you meet them halfway ?
Why agree to this "compromise" when Israel violated the previous one?
Drive the vast majority of a population from their homes, and to a tiny strip of their former homeland, then "generously" offer them to just remain there in their little concentration camp. And not even guaranteed, given Israel's history. Gee, I wonder why they rejected?
It's not surprising that this is what occupiers think is "compromise".
Israel already look horrible to anyone paying attention, the entire West is backing them
Go further back, even. The UN Partition Plan for Palestine in 1947 would have given Palestine its own territory, splitting it with Israel 45/55. The Arab League and Arab Higher Committee of Palestine both rejected it.
It's not like compromises have never been offered. The Arabs have simply never been willing to accept anything less than the expulsion of the Jews from the territory.
"hurr de durr, both sides"
What a giant load of crap
Gimme that good old fundamentalist religion