Memes @lemmy.ml

1y ago

Vegan food: The west vs India

442 comments

One of these cultures has normalised vegan and vegetarianism for centuries, the other is trying to wean a meat-obsessed population.
They are not the same thing, nor do they have the same requirements to reach their end goals
- How prevalent is veganism in India? Whenever I look at Indian food, it's butter this and milk that. Sure, there are some very good vegan choices, but it seems to me that Indians love their dairy.
  
  Veganism is actually a fairly new phenomenon in general, a lot of Jains in particular have adopted it. But vegetarianism in India dates back over a thousand years BCE , so yeah, they've got a bit of a head start.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianismbycountry
  About 30% are vegetarian in India. Almost 10% are vegan.
  So it's very prevalent, but America likes to pretend we're the only country in the world and that problems are never solved anywhere else.
  
  Vegetarian? Yes. Vegan? No.
  I am a vegetarian. I eat dairy. I don't eat meat and eggs.
  
  Yeah I have a lot of vegetarian Indian friends, not as many vegan.
  
  9% of the population apparently, the highest in the world tied with Mexico.
  
  Yeah, we're not giving up our dairy any time soon lol.
  No one is keen on experimenting with Basundi or Rasmalai without milk.
  
  It's not vegan so much as veggie. They definitely respect those cows they get the milk from though.
  
  Quite popular, in my city it's quite hard to find meat in the popular restaurants. And these places are quite old and we'll know.
  Most foods don't have any form or trace of meat or eggs, although milk and related items are very widely consumed.
  It's vegetarian and not vegan.
- One of these cultures has normalised vegan and vegetarianism for centuries, the other is trying to wean a meat-obsessed population
  As someone who works in a grocery store, the worst fucking people are the ones who go up to the deli counter and yell at the clerks, demanding the "bloodiest* roast beef they've got. That or the spiciest turkey, or whatever.
  Dudes who's entire sense of self is invested in eating meat. Easily the most annoying kind of guy I encounter in my daily life.
  
  That and the 'for every animal you don't eat i'm gonna eat THREE!' Yay well done so macho you get threatened by what another person eats fucking yay for you sir gold star.
  
  Dudes who’s entire sense of self is invested in eating meat
  This might sound silly. But maybe they enjoy the taste of rare roast beef? Before this "make meat seem like it's not dead animal" trend, the rule used to be anything over medium was overcooked for most meats. For some odd reason (actually, not odd. freaking additives) a lot of roast beef is sold medium-well. Which is tasteless enough to make someone go vegan!
  I don't understand "yell at the clerks". I've never seen that. But I agree it's rude. Just **not **because they are buying meat.
- This is what people don't get, if you've been veggie for years then you don't need meat substitutes, these products are for normies trying to cut back or give up while they break the cultural training.
  
  I've been vegetarian for... more than a decade? I love meat substitutes and generally prefer having the substitute present in meals (either as the main thing, like a burger, or as an inclusion). I do agree that meat substitutes are a fantastic way of reducing meat consumption for meat-eaters, but that doesn't mean you need to do away with it completely once you're in 'full veg' mode
- Hence this meme
  
  which would be fine if it were just a straight comparison but it starts bleating about chemicals and preservatives and it's a bit too purity politicking for my tastes.
- Maybe. While I do sometime choose the plant-based meat, thinking of it as a substitute was my initial reluctance to try vegetarian food. Back then, I ridiculed the idea of a “veggie burger”, but really liked grilling a “black bean patty”. Did you realize Mac and Cheese can be vegetarian? “Greek veggie dip” is horrible, but I love hummus. I always loved various potatoes, but it was quite a revelation that you could spice them up and use them as a meal. My latest infatuation is Halloumi or Paneer - don’t ever call a nice grilling cheese a substitute for anything.
  At least for me, it is easier to choose foods for their own value, rather than suffer with a substitute, r a variation “without”. I’m not a vegetarian and have no interest in it, but I will choose what looks good to me at any given time, on its own merits
- veganism was invented in the 1940s in Britain
  
  inaccurate. Even a brief wiki would correct you on this.

I mean, the United States has, to be fair, developed a food culture that emphasizes using a lot of meat, especially over the past century or so. It's not surprising that people from an area that eats so much meat, who go vegan, are going to want to look for ways to still make dishes familiar to them
- Yep. It's all about helping people transition. So much of American food culture is centered around burgers, steak, BBQ, etc. It's really hard to just drop all of that on a dime, even if you want to. These products help people with that mental itch.
  
  Not just the meat, there is cheese and milk involved in a lot of it as well.
  
  It's not just culture, or itch, or whatever.
  I just love the taste of meat! My body craves for it. But if I can keep that delicious flavour in my plate without killing an animal, that's great!
- If its any indication into other factors, every time I try to make butter chicken it ends up tasting like a British persons home made curry recipe so there's that. Jokes aside as someone who likes cooking, a lot of traditional recipes, of any culture are simply much more labor intensive than slapping a bean patty on a pan then furnishing it. I'd wager the pace of a lot of western lifestyles, the choice gets weighted quickly.
  
  To be fair, a patty sandwich of any type (be it hamburgers, chicken sandwich, beans, or any kind of imitation meat) is going to be similarly labor intensive and time consuming if one had to make the patty and bread oneself rather than being able to just buy them. I'm sure traditional recipes for most cultures can be made similarly convenient if probably somewhat different from their original form, if demand exists for them to be premade and sold that way. There's a specialty grocery store very close to my home that specializes in Indian food, tho also has some international foods from other places too, and it's freezer section has all sorts of Indian dishes done up as tv dinners, or premade frozen samosas of various flavors one just has to fry in a pan for a few minutes, among other things.
  
  What does a British person's home made curry taste like? I'm curious.
- I was taught to cook a ton of things growing up.
  most of those meals involved meat. So took a bit of relearning. Being able to just make an old thing but with fake meat was nice. Then sometimes brain craves something from child hood, so have to find an alternative.
- From where I stand internationally though, it seems like a toxic culture too regarding it.. Like, apparently, I'm meant to be considered more macho for eating meat somehow.. I'm an omnivore, and I'll eat what I want (the standard of vegetarian food actually seems much higher)
- I think it is also a reason why a lot of vegetarian food options or certain ingredients like tofu in the US are seen as lesser.
  Like this isnt a meatless example but how tofu is presented in the west is a good showcase of this disconnect. There are people who dont care for tofu because tofu has been presented to them as a meat fill in. Tofurkey instead of turkey, tofu dog instead of hot dog, tofu nuggest, and etc. And tofu is not meat. It's tofu. So yeah when you replace a Turkey dinner with tofu and are told its just as good or good enough you start associating it as an inferior tasting meat substitute.
  But tofu isnt a meat fill in and in fact many traditional recipes use it in conjunction with meat. Tofu is tofu. It is its own ingredient and recipe,and if you use it as such instead of trying to pretend it's something else you can do good things.
  Like the same goes for a lot of western vegetarian dishes. Instead of leaning into the flavor profile of the dish or digging up some old traditional meatless recipe(of which many exist even western dishes when you consider lent and meatless fridays were a thing traditionally). And dont get me wrong I understand that someone who went vegetarian or vegan may want to emulate a spicy chicken wing, or a burger, but it feels like a lot of the mainstream western options are all just drop in replacements.
  
  Absolutely this. I eat meat, but I really like veg* cooking. I feel like it challenges me in the kitchen and there's a whole world of veg* dishes especially in mediterranean/middle eastern, south asian and east asian cooking that are just amazing. But the number of wide-eyed vegans who have handed me a lump of some sort of isolated vegetable protein and insisted repeatedly that "it tastes just like meat, you'll never know" makes me wonder if vegans can actually taste food. I'm sorry, Kaiyleigh, nothing you do to that tofu is gonna make it taste "just like a hot dog". How about you press it, cube it, roll it in some seasoned corn starch and fry it until it's a delicious golden brown crunchy little nugget of tofu instead? Let it be what it is rather than trying to force it to be something that it's not. Either you're lying to yourself, you're lying to me or you physically cannot detect flavor compounds with your tongue.
  tldr - fuck a vegan, but I'd love another bowl of that lentil dal
  
  But tofu isnt a meat fill in and in fact many traditional recipes use it in conjunction with meat.
  My best experiment with tofu to date involved a marinade and replacing half the chicken I would have otherwise used with it in a dish, and cooking it in the drippings from browning the chicken.
  Tofu is tofu. It is its own ingredient and recipe,and if you use it as such instead of trying to pretend it’s something else you can do good things.
  I'm good with tofu, but my wife HATES the texture of it. Is there some trick to make it less spongy?

I get that it's a meme, but what's the problem? I'm vegetarian/flirt with veganism; it's purely for moral/ethical/environmental reasons.
Indian food is delicious. An Impossible burger on a pretzel bun dripping with grilled onions, avocado, vegan aioli and mustard with a side of steak fries? That's also delicious, in my opinion.
Meat is delicious, and that's not at all incompatible with my reasoning for being vegetarian.
- You started a certified veganism struggle session, good job.
  
  Yeah, it seems that "your meme is kinda gatekeepy" is a pretty good way to start some "spirited discussions."
- For real. I was raised on slop, now that I'm a vegetarian, it doesn't mean I don't like the foods I grew up eating.
  I guess the point is that we don't need to rely on expensive substitutes made by the same corps that own slaughterhouses to make tasty, nutritious vegan food
- I'd argue that the fake meat stuff has hurt veganism to at least some extent because it's marketed so heavily and people think it's the only way to eat vegan. You can see how prominent the ”all vegan food is processed” and ”it's too expensive to be vegan” arguments have become, even in this thread.
- Aioli is naturally vegan. Classically, it's just garlic paste and oil. Flavoring mayo with garlic is not supposed to be called aioli.
  Try making the proper kind. You'll be impressed.
- The problem is that you're still fixated on the form and experience of meat. A full mindset change is more robust.
  It's like how fake leather can help replace and reduce real leather usage, but if the trend of desiring leather died out in the first place, the whole problem is dropped altogether
  
  I don't want to stop eating meat, I want to stop the exploitation and suffering of animals.
  While I want to stop the exploitation of animals more than I want to eat meat, if there is a path that allows me to do both, I will have a preference for that path.
  The same goes for leather. It's use isn't worth what has to be done to create it, but it is a fantastic material with a lot of versatility that's better than near all alternatives in plenty of applications. Fake leather and synthetic leather are wonderful innovations because we can enjoy the benefits without the negatives, and that's something to be encouraged rather than avoided.
  
  not entirely, as leather is still a wildly useful fabric and material for many uses which synthetic leather can serve(to a greater or lesser extent, granted), but only in specific cases can meat not be replaced/not replaced effectively
  
  You think leather is a desire?
  You think people kill animals to obtain leather because it's cool?
  Leather has many purposes and advantages, it's economically and practically sane to use it or mimick its features, even with fake leather.
  A desire, he said... Sometimes I don't get people anymore.
- Nothing against people who prefer meat substitutes. But I do think they should be brave and just abandon meat altogether. If you keep relying on meat substitutes, you haven't let go of meat entirely, I found it easy to get back to meat eating.
  
  You're chatting out your ass, this is like saying lesbians shouldn't use dildos in case they go back to fucking men
  Complete ignorance of the thing you're talking about
  
  Bravery has nothing to do with it. It tastes good, and there's no harm to any animals. So why not eat it? Denial for the sake of denial is not a virtue.
  If you keep relying on meat substitutes, you haven't let go of meat entirely, and it would be easy to get back to meat eating.
  That's like saying that if you enjoy shooting people in video games, then you're one step away from shooting people in real life. I've been eating fake meats for almost a decade now, and I've never been tempted to eat real meat.
  I know how horrible and senseless factory farming is, and I have images of the slaughtered seared into my memory from vegan documentaries. Why would I go back to that when I can have substitutes that are just as good, if not better?
  
  Who cares for bravery? Avoiding meat is avoiding meat. Crazy strawman.
  
  So your whole point is a slippery slope fallacy. Gotcha.
  
  Nothing against people who prefer meat substitutes. But I do think they should be brave and just abandon meat altogether.
  Looking at someone not eating meat: you should stop eating meat.
  
  Being called stupid and criticizing my decisions kept me from "being brave"
  Like "You're not good enough until you are this much" bullshit. If that's the attitude, then fuck no. Why do I wanna go even further into things if y'all are assholes right off the bat. Like, no. fuck you. If it's this complicated then I am going to do what has been a life of hassle free eating. My guilt is very easily wiped away like that.
  
  I don't think meat substitutes is is the major problem to worry about. In fact, perhaps they could help?
  https://plantbasednews.org/opinion/do-84-vegans-and-vegetarians-give-up-diets/
  
  If I'm at a barbecue and someone is grilling up impossible burgers, I'm not going to request they instead make a bowl of curry for me. Likewise when I grill for people.
  
  Nothing against people who prefer meat substitutes
  That's good.
  I do think they should be brave and just abandon meat altogether
  That's bad.
  Now, firstly, thank you for defining a lot of people cowards.
  Secondly, while I like indian food, I like meat more. And I liked it since forever. If I can have the delicious taste of meat in my plate without killing an animal, that's great. Fantastic! I'm eagerly waiting for lab crafted meat any day. I'm willing to pay it more than real meat, because I'm not fond of killing living beings to eat them. But if that's not yet possible, I'd still have my steak and my hamburger.
  
  18 years meatless and counting
  
  Right so, I have literally never eaten meat in my life. I was raised vegetarian. I still think plant based burger patties or sausages or whatever are delicious. Its literally just food. You gonna think that I'm "relying" on meat substitutes or "haven't let go of meat entirely" when I haven't even eaten meat before? :P
  Just let people enjoy things! Plant based "meat" doesn't hurt anyone and its a great option to add to your choices of meals.
  
  You don't make friends with ~~salad~~ that attitude.
  
  it would be easy to get back to meat eating
  If it would "be easy" for you to get back to consuming animal products, it's hard to imagine you're vegan at all.

A lot of Indian cooking is vegetarian, not vegan. Ghee is very often used.
- And paneer.
- Yea there are probably more vegans in Europe than in India
- Not quite the same, but if you want to replace ghee with something vegan, try avocado or coconut oil. There is vegan ghee (made from palm oil I think?) but it's bad for you the same way old timey margerine is bad.
  Incidentally, unprocessed red palm oil could be a nice replacement, but it has a characteristic earthy/almondy taste. I love it on fish dishes but it's not the taste you expect from Indian food I think.
- "I fucking love Ghee, it's like freebasing butter" - Malcolm Tucker

I'm vegetarian. Western food is so focused on meat that people often have no idea how to make a meal that doesn't contain it. My mother once asked me how to make a vegetarian version of Chicken Parmesan. So keep the tomato sauce, cheese, and spices, but swap out the chicken with pasta. Congrats you've made vegetarian Chicken Parmesan. I like to call it Spaghetti.
- I'd swap the chicken for eggplant personally.
  
  I think that speaks to OP's point: instead of thinking in terms of trying to replicate the meat dish without meat, think in terms of making a vegetable dish that satisfies the same mood.
  
  What was first, the eggplant or the chickenplant?... 😛
- 90% of "vegetarian versions" of dishes are just the dish without meat. 9% of the remainder are the dish with black beans and/or mushrooms
  
  I mean personally I'd sub it in for something with some protein, though you definitely don't need nearly the amount you get from a piece of meat.
- and people get so pissy about like 'where is muh serving of protein??' like just because you saw an infograph as a child doesn't mean you have to have a hunk of a living creature every meal
  
  You should still be eating protein...
  
  Can I still have 11 bread?
  
  There’s nothing childish about paying attention to macros. If you’ve ever spent time doing any programmed exercising that includes making linear progress, you know the difference protein can make. And it’s hard to achieve even when you’re not extremely limited in ingredients.
  I’m not knocking vegan or vegetarian diets. Just saying it’s not at all easy, and that protein matters a lot.
  Also most vegetarian Indian food is absolutely loaded with butter/ghee. It’s not “healthy.”
  Italy and Japan life expectancy: 84 years.
  India: 70 years.
  Drastic differences.
  
  like just because you saw an infograph as a child doesn’t mean you have to have a hunk of a living creature every meal
  Especially when said infographic was not only wrong, but also propaganda.

Yeah I don't get the whole "replace meat with a vegan steak" idea. Just prepare a delicious Dahl, the recipe of which has been around for hundreds of years!
- They're not made for people like us who have been veggie or vegan for years and have learned to cook with pulses, legumes, etc. They're designed for people who want to cut back or give up meat but have to break the cultural training that every meal needs meat. Also they allow casual food places that don't have professional chefs like pubs, cafes, etc to have quick and easy veggie options on the menu.
  
  I think there's a more commercial aspect to it. It's cheap processed food, and in fact it's often cheaper than meat-based processed foods. The real offense is that they charge more for it.
  
  Things like Impossible Burgers, absolutely. I tried one once and it was so much like an actual meat burger it grossed me out. But I will make a seitan corned beef to put in a Reuben sandwich just because it's an awesome sandwich.
  
  Hmm I was 27 years a meat eater, advocating for meat consumption in the face of a vegan mate. Saying things like "we need a little bit of meat in our diets...they're killed humanely...etc"
  Took me one moment of realisation, then I dunno, I just tried, not even that hard, vegan 7 years now.
  I can see that the transitional foods are a good stepping stone, but imo, the second you see inside the animal agriculture industry without any blinders on (biases), you'll choose to act within your life, if you have the compassion/empathy to.
  If someone sees the reality of what goes on behind closed doors and continues to consume animals in much the same way, it says more about that persons internal morality than anything else.

There's actually a lot of plant based meat that are chemical / preservative free, Redefine Meat comes first to mind. As there is a lot of animal meat that is full of chemicals, preservatives, carcinogens, and antibiotics use.
I would only assume most fast food meals, meat ones included, are not chemical / preservative free. That's a western fast food problem, vegan or not.
Lastly, vegan people broadly don't eat plant based meats. Like it get the joke... It's just broadly inaccurate. Meat eaters, people trying to eat less meat, and some vegetarians buy plant based meats.
- Very true, great points all around
  Now with that out of the way, this is literally just a lame “I've depicted the group I don’t agree with as the Soyjak and my group as the Chad, thus superiority confirmed”.
  It was never going to be a balanced take
- Lastly, vegan people broadly don’t eat plant based meats
  I think it's a demographics thing. There's a whole lot of vegans who eat "fake meat" regularly or even exclusively. I have a successful restaurant chain near me that specialized in "plant-based alternative" meals, from burgers to lasagnas and everything in between. No it's not all meat. Lots of "Cashew Cheese" and similar.
  And honestly, I don't think vegans should be faulted for "wanting meat but not eating it". It's the ones that get judgey of non-vegans like the other 99% are somehow inferior to them. I know way too many vegans who are vegan for good reasons or for personal-trauma reasons, and they should be left alone. Even if they want a miracle burger and mac 'n cashes.
  
  Of course there is. Not saying no vegans eat it ever. It could be a regional variable, but I'm speaking about population as a whole, not your local vegan restaurant. Google says 86% of plant based meat is bought by meat eaters. I also work in the field so have some knowledge on the subject. 86% is about right but could be 5-8% high. But in any case, the people who buy it are broadly meat eater, or more likely "flexitarians" .
  And vegans should eat more plant based meats. The better brands are very healthy and it could help them stick to their vegan diets.
- There's actually a lot of plant based meat that are chemical / preservative free
  Literally everything in this sentence is wrong.
  
  My dude... Says who? You? It's not hard to Google - you find lists of them when you do.
  
  Thank you, it drives me nuts when people say shit like "chemical-free". Everything is made out of chemicals, tell me which one otherwise I'll just assume you're uneducated and afraid of things you can't pronounce.

Vegans are great, especially with garlic in a nice butter sauce.
Edit: also you're literally made out of chemicals.
- Literally not a single thing in our world isn’t chemicals. Lemontek - chemicals interacting. Alcohol for some party - Chemicals. Every part of any meal - chemicals. All of it.
  
  I love how lemon tek was your first example
  
  In general I think people are referring to things that are either A) heavily proccesed and/or B) something that isn't naturally occurring. When they speak about "chemicals"
  Your body is made to eat natually occuring plants and animals. Any deviation from that is risking long term issues. Effects that are very often (at least here in the states) ignored unless they just straight up kill you. And even then it'll probably take a couple decades before anyone actually does something about it. So, yes while many people misuse the word "chemical," their fear is not misplaced. You should be skeptical of things that are synthesized until they are proven to interact with the human body appropriately
  
  Is light a chemical?
  
  I think we need to understand what definition people are using for "chemicals". They usually are referring to highly processed ingredients, with highly processed preservatives, highly processed artificial flavors (called "natural flavors", but taken for example from the anal glans of a beaver... yes this is real and common). By the broadest definition, absolutely everything is a chemical. Generally, people should avoid any definition for a word that makes the word nonsensical. And also generally, you will find big lobbyist groups using that general definition to shell-game about the specific chemicals they are trying to protect.
  When a food-concerned person mentions chemicals, they are referring to things like antibiotics or hormones, preservatives or processed sweeteners with known side-effects. Some of them are talking about isolates, like soy protein isolate to which there are valid health concerns.
  And yes, sometimes people referring to chemicals don't know what chemicals they're complaining about. And yes, sometimes people complaining about chemicals are complaining that their meatless burger's consistency comes from methyl cellulose, (probably) completely harmless but absolutely artificial.
  The same way some vegans are made ill by the thought of meat, some folks are made ill by flavor- or consistency-related facts in their food. I mean, I think vegans would be concerned to know the beaver anal secretions above was in some plant milks under the term "natural flavors".
- I’m a vegetarian, but feel free to cover me in butter and smother me in garlic anyway.
- ✅ Peppers
  ❌ Capsaicin
  YW

I love both, I'm not sure I know any real person who thinks this is a competition
- Every vegan I know is on some sort of culinary journey.
  Vegan btw
  
  Vegan from protein shakes lol
- Same, it's nice having more options. Apparently that's a bad thing according to some.
- That’s because this meme isn’t about veganism at all, it’s about anti west narratives
- It’s not enough to be vegan, or enough to tell people you are vegan. You have to be a better vegan than them.
  
  You have to be a better vegan than them.
  Didn't you know? Todd's vegan!

Ohhhh scary, buzzz words... Chemicals.
- It's literally just heme, the same thing that makes meat delicious. They just get it from plants instead.
- Don't forget the preservatives!
  I, on the other hand, enjoy all-natural pickled vegetables, which are just regular vegetables immersed in water, ~~sodium chloride, acetic acid & trace flavors --- chemicals which act as preservatives for the vegetables~~ sea salt and vinegar.

Different cultures have different fucking food preferences, more at 11

when I went vegan, I started eating practically exclusively Indian food. dal, chana masala, aloo gobi, so many delicious foods.
- Samosa!!
  
  Pakora 👍
- Try some Mediterranean recipes. Gazpacho, sopes mallorquines, ...

What a bunch of dumb gatekeeping
- It's a meme
  
  It's still stupid and spawning stupid conversations
  
  Humor is not an impenetrable shield against criticism. Memes shape discourse. For better and worse.
  
  No, it’s shit.

Think this post confuses veganism and vegetarianism. Also it's chemicals all the way down. Those spices? Made of chemicals.
Those alternative burgers are actually pretty tasty but also very heavy because they are imitating beef. For American fare I'd generally prefer a sandwich with deli style meats made out of tofu or seitan, or a bean burger.
- "pulled pork" Seitan is probably my favorite fake meat, its got the right mouthfeel.
  Haven't been too satisfied with Tofu, its ok, but there's no pretending its not bean cheese.
  
  Lol, I'm calling it bean cheese from now on
  
  Tofu has a lot of range, there are many types of tofu you just won't see that many in a Western market. There are also a lot of ways to prepare tofu, it's very versatile.
- You mean to say scientists don't sit in a circle and summon the "Chemicals" from the lower tiers of hell?
- vegetarianism minus butter/ghee = veganism. there are tons of dishes in vegetarianism without milk products

Most vegans in the US do not eat food that mimics meat.
Most Western butt holes cannot handle Indian food that well. The couple times I went to Indian weddings, I was clamoring for anything that would not burn my butthole. The good combined with the ridiculous amount of alcohol made the toilets cry.
- Try a fiber supplement. Or eating vegetables.
  
  As a Canadian Caucasian I concur that we should all eat more vegetables.
  
  The fiber is not the issue. I'm good on that. It was the spiciness that was the problem. I can handle a little bit of spice but there was pretty much no reprieve.
- I don’t know, that’s a stereotype that may not be true. I mean, I’ll also make fun of my culture’s lack of spice and spice tolerance, but I’m the opposite data point. I love spicy food, prepare very spicy food for my kids, and on my one trip to India had at least the spice tolerance of my Indian co-workers. We’re not all white bread and mayonnaise
  
  "spicy food" doesnt mean the same thing depending on cuisine. Different types of heat are used in different dishes.
  I can eat mexican meals for days and have no issues, cholula and all.
  Meanwhile mild indian is usually a treat that sets off a small bomb in my gut.
  Also, people make fun of americans like we dont have fuckloads of hot sauce brands all over the place. We live next door to mexico, guys, we have plenty of spicy cuisine.
- I'll have you know our British digestive systems can handle almost anything from over 60 years of Indian, Pakistani, Carribbean and Mexican food. When Taco Bell arrived on our shores it was bland disappointment compared to existing burrito outlets, especially given all the hype that it apparently puts an American in the toilet for hours :(
  
  Thats from the meat quality, not the spicyness
  
  Taco bell gives you the shits because its poorly cooked meat with a lot of beans, not because the food is good or spicy

My only problem with Indian food. Whenever I try a restaurants it's shit. But when my coworkers would bring in a feast on Diwali, it was my favorite time of year.
I can't find any restaurants that taste even similar to their home cooked meals.
- The best indian food I've ever had from a restaurant was from a truck stop in the middle of nowhere off I-80 in Nebraska.
  
  Sounds about right honestly It's a shame the best food comes from the most random and niche places
- That's because you can't beat home cooked meals.
- Yeah, the same goes for Korean food. I think a lot of it has to do with the quality of produce. In the west produce is often picked before it's ripe because we have to ship it hundreds of miles. They also tend to change the spices and sweetness to accommodate western pallets.
- That's my experience as well. The food my Pakistani friend cooks is amazing but when I order the same thing at a restaurant it looks delicious but it tastes like poking your tongue out the window. I guess restaurants has to cater to western palates to make money and many westoids have very low spice tolerance.
- That may be more of a problem with the restaurants where you live. I live in San Antonio and we have dozens and dozens of exceptional Indian restaurants where everything feels like it's a home cooked meal. I definitely miss Diwali before the pandemic though. My old company had a lot of Indian workers and the spread of food they would bring in was always incredible.
- I don't know what country you're in, but lots of Indians in the UK are actuall run by Bangladeshis and the food is a bit middling. Once you find a good one you become loyal.
  
  Dude fuck off. Bengali cuisine is great.
  The food those Bangladeshis serve aren't generally Bengali cuisine, but rather what sells.

Most veg Indian food has dairy added tho. Avoiding ghee is like going through an obstacle course of nice aunties and uncles trying to feed you. And don't even get me started on curd.
Indian vegans also often use substitutes. I'm for vegan food unity: don't harm and exploit animals and I support you.
- How is the dairy industry in India? I would assume it is nowhere near as cruel as it is in the West, where sadistic practices are incorporated at every stage of the process in the name of efficiency.
  
  CW: how the dairy/meat industry works.
  It's basically the same. The driving factor of mass death in the dairy industry is that to make cows produce milk they've gotta get pregnant and calf, so you end up with a bunch of cows that are too old to produce enough milk for market and a big of calves that won't produce milk, ever.
  In the West, those "extra", "non-productive" animals get killed (the dairy industry is the meat industry). In India, this is still often the case as not everyone is veg and not everyone who's non-veg avoids beef. But there are enough people that refuse beef for there to be an impetus to follow a "traditional" alternative: you kick the animal out of the dairy for it to fend for itself. In reality, they tend to just starve to death over a long period of time.
  For there to be dairy without a culling there would need to be like 30 pet cows for every 1 dairy cow. Assuming the cost of raising the cow is what people pay for, that would mean milk costing 10X more.
  
  It depends. India does have some factory farms, mainly for beef. But many dairy cattle are kept by small farmers for whom the milk and meat are a supplement to whatever plants they grow. And these farmers usually belong to dairy co-operative societies like Amul, which do quality control and ensure that the animals are not abused too much. Also some Indian states ban or heavily restrict the slaughter of cattle (although in practise this just leads to them being abandoned or disappearing into the black market).

Water is a chemical. Salt is a preservative This is fucking stupid.

Honestly the Indian one should have just been "Here's your meal." "Thanks. It is delicious, as expected."

Ah yes! Herbs and spices, the original chemicals and preservatives.

Both are good but fake meat is the Pinnacle of processed foods
- "Fake meat" is a broad term that can be more or less "processed" depending on your preferences. I made some teriyaki seitan last night that was basically high-protein bread with herbs and spices.
  https://www.myplantifulcooking.com/meaty-vegan-seitan-chicken/#recipe
- Shared first 🥇 with real meat products.
  Still rocking a higher life expectancy though, vegans got that going for them.

I was lucky enough to travel to India once, and try some great food … I wanted to be vegetarian while there, simply because it was so good. The guys thought they were being helpful pointing out meat dishes everywhere we went, but it was typically an afterthought on the menus, not well prepared, not worth eating.
— In an American restaurant the focus is on meat and it is well prepared so that’s what I’m looking for
— in my limited experience with restaurants in India, the focus was on foods that didn’t have meat, and was very well prepared, so that’s what I’m looking for
As long as the vegetarian option is a substitute, or an option, or doing without, rather than the focussing on a good meal, most of will have no reason to select it, no reason to expect it to be a good choice

With the power of spices... I lived in an apartment with Indians as neighbours 2 floors beneath.
There wasn't a single day when you couldn't smell all spices combined when you walked past their apartment. It was ... an interesting smell...😮‍💨 I don't believe they could smell/taste the original flavours of their food
Nice neighbours though
- the original flavor of their food?
  what is that? bland?
  
  Yeah, tell him.
  I like that all my different vegetables taste like cinnamon and curry.
  
  I see the seasoning police has arrived. It's funny and also sad that you think normal food flavors are "bland." Better drown everything in Lawry's seasoned salt and Dr Buttblast.
  
  Probably. The spices must have been worth more than the actual food though (:
- I used to work with a guy from Pakistan, my car would smell of curry for a week after a couple days of driving about with him. I could tell that he'd been back to his hotel room by the lingering smell in the hallway.
  
  Haha :D
  
  Yeah, some foods are like that - my ex-father-in-law had a similar thing with garlic. You could tell he had it for a couple of days
- Nice if you like Indian food.
- The smell of all the spices is too much for me at times but I am super sensitive to smells. Gives me headaches.

Let's not forget the Mediterranean cuisine either. Falafel. Hummus. Baba Ganouj, Dolmas... crap I've made myself hungry now.
- North-East Mediterranean you'd be hard pressed to find anything vegetarian let alone vegan.
  I had a meal in Bosnia that was just four different kind of meats and the only non meat was a shit ton of raw onions.
- That's my people!

Beyond Meat Ingredients: Water, pea protein, expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, rice protein, natural flavors, dried yeast, cocoa butter, methylcellulose, and less than 1% of potato starch, salt, potassium chloride, beet juice color, apple extract, pomegranate concentrate, sunflower lecithin, vinegar, lemon juice concentrate, vitamins and minerals (zinc sulfate, niacinamide [vitamin B3], pyridoxine hydrochloride [vitamin B6], cyanocobalamin [vitamin B12], calcium pantothenate[Vitamin B5]).
Based on my light research, Beyond meat is not too bad, ingredient wise. If someone wants to chime in, I don't see any preservatives either.
- But, but, but... Few ingredient good, many ingredient bad!!
  
  If only we could genetically engineer cows to grow NATURAL beyond meat burgers everyone would be happy... wait no...
  
  Mfw when 'whole foods' turns out to be a rule of thumb, not a lifestyle.

White people are afraid of spices, they activate their yakubian self destruct instincts
- They invaded the entire world for spices yet decided they like none of them
- Yeah, that's why things like Indian, Chinese and West Indian cuisine became parts of British cuisine bu osmosis is it? Get to fuck with this racist nonsense.
- Not true, I ate some Jerk pork last night, had shrimp & bananana curry with scoth bonnet earlier this week.
  
  So you speak for all white people do you? Because if so I'd like a fucking word.
  If we just stopped spending money on bombs and instead spent it on working out ways to help each other we could do amazing things.
  Fucking chuffed to bits I managed to get this in with the guy that speaks for all white people, thanks for your time.
- Not afraid, they just don't like spices that smell and so would prefer them to attack
  That or they are just not creative

This has to be the most eat pray love meme I've ever seen. Hindus are vegetarian not vegan (disclaimer: they aren't a monolith) and use a lot of ghee (milk product). That brown dude looks like a Sikh; they are typically not vegetarian or vegan.
- Unless OP put it somewhere in the comments the word Hindu wasn't used.
  
  India is known for vegetarian cuisine due to Hinduism. Jains are a small minority.
  
  I never did, lol

But why choose when you can have both?
- Good point!

I'm vegan for a while now and live in Europe. In the past, vegan options were creative and often good and now it's this fake meat all over. I wish I lived closer to India then to America
- You really don't want to live in a country close to India.
  
  I was speaking metaphorically but I guess you are right when taken literally

Americans eat like shit anyway lol, they won't notice

I saw a middle-eastern cookbook and was reminded of how vegetarian food is pretty solid everywhere outside of many parts of the Anglosphere. Even then, the stuff is there but it's not really given the thought it deserves.
- I have a very, very old italian recipe book that my mom used when she was younger. I'm talking about 1980 edition. The book is about 200 recipes, 200 different names and a lot of different types of pasta. The last page, there's this one, single recipe, simply called "The vegetarian recipe" and that's all. Made me laugh and think that today would never be allowed to be printed this way.

How to make a meme after glancing for 30 seconds on veganism on google.

India has some bomb-ass food.
- And some people get bomb-ass because of that food /jk

also people think vegan food is unhealthy but will eat carcasses raised in their own shit
- I mean unless someone thinks lettuce or beans are unhealthy because they grow in dirt, this train of thought just makes no sense.
  
  the wording was a bit of, it should spell "carcasses raised with their own shit"
  https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23817808/pig-farm-investigation-feedback-immunity-feces-intestines

When people complain about vegan diets lacking in x, y, or z I always point out that our diets are culturally balanced, as well as being balanced by the addition of vitamins to staple foods. If we all became deficient in say, iron, we would start fortifying iron in our water, flour, salt, rice etc, while at the same time we would culturally move towards eating more black beans and spinach than we currently do. When an individual removes a food group from their diet, it's only reasonable that you will have to intentionally rebalance your diet in other places. This isn't a deficiency inherent in a vegan diet.
If you have to supplement a vitamin or mineral that's just part of your diet, so don't @ me with your natural=good nonsense.
- The only thing vegans need to supplement with is B12. Everything else can be had from a balanced diet.
  
  Once you discover nutritional yeast it's hard not to get enough B12.

Shit, now I want some Indian food. Not even vegan, I just like it.

Ah man, if I see one more west coast white lady in a YT short explaining their 5min superfood meal prep when we all know there is 0% chance she swallows a single bite of food with that much exotic pepper and ginger...
I'm gonna fry rice and quinoa in Pineapple pulp out of SPITE.

I love me some mango curry

Welcome to the culture wars. How am I supposed to demonstrate my sigmoid male prowess to fertile young females, if I'm eating a plate of seasoned vegetable mush?
Whereas if it appears to be a juicy slab of meat, I can maintain the veneer of my fragile masculinity. And who knows, maybe one of those cute progressive females will open her legs to me if I appear to care about animals.
- Or maybe different cultures just have different palettes and people want to eat food that tastes like what they grew up eating? Maybe we could just... Enjoy both approaches to food? Outside of this meme do you even know with confidence that there aren't Indians, a country of almost 1.5 billion people, 5x the size of the us, trying to recreate common meat dishes in a vegan way?
  Friend, you just complained about the culture war, right before blatantly partaking in it in a wildly nonsensical way.
  
  I think "ThatFemby" is making a satirical post.
  
  If I couldn't laugh about how assinine people can be sometimes, I'd have to cry... This keeps me sane (mostly) xD

Not a vegan, but a vegetarian. This is why I love Indian food. When food is made from the beginning to not include meat products, it doesn’t feel like it’s ‘missing’ anything.

Here's my thing about meat: I'll switch away from meat if you make it taste good. It doesn't have to pretend to be meat, as long as it tastes good, that's all I care about. I will still eat the occasional burger or bbq, but if you can find me vegetarian or vegan recipes that make me as happy as bbq does, I'll try it.
- I'm not vegetarian or vegan, but occasionally do a diet with my wife that makes us get creative with food. Here's a few things I still eat:
  Pad Thai is a good place to start
  Oreos are surprisingly vegan
  Taco Bell's bean burrito, actually most Mexican food can just replace the meat with refried beans.
  Bacon bits are vegan, toss them on some pasta like Cacio e Pepe
  Chipotle's chorizo is fake pork sausage, get it in either a bowl or a burrito.
  Then the classics:
  tomato soup with grilled cheese
  peanut butter and jelly
  pancakes
  mac & cheese
  All cakes and pies (well excluding chicken pot & Shepard's)
  
  Okay, I hadn't thought about pad Thai, but I love pad Thai.
  I hadn't thought about taco bell since its been a while since I've been there.
  How are bacon bits vegan?
  I haven't tried Chipotle's chorizo, I'll have to try it out.
  Thanks for the suggestions!
  
  Oreos are surprisingly vegan
  It's less surprising when you realize that stuff that processed almost might as well have been constructed from raw hydrocarbons. It's like some NileRed "turning paint thinner into cherry soda"-level shit.
  
  I said this above as a reply to another comment, but I do feel there are a lot of interesting dishes around the world that would be loved almost universally and I wish they would become universally accessible too

and they're both delicious, nothing wrong here except animal exploitation

No animals were harmed except for the ones Impossible tested on.
btw.

I've are fried rice with eggs for protein all week. It's been great. It's vegetarian but not vegan.

we ate burgers with i think corn-based patties once. actually tasted better than a burger imo. definetely a carnivore, but the vegans sure have some dope alternatives.
edit: omnivore would be more correct

america bad

Yeah all Indians are vegetarians and look exactly like this /s
- The same way that all americans eat nothing but meat, and are white, sparsely bearded dudes. /s
- And they're always doing the needful
  
  LOL 🤣

How to make chickenless soup
- Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
  How to make chickenless soup
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

usians cannot imagine consuming a treat that does not involve murder. They will literally pay a premium and spend billions in R&D to get non-murder treats to taste more like murder.
- Holy shit, there are still dinks out there that are trying to make "USian" a thing? I thought all of you nad-nudgers died of with kuro5hin.
  
  Clearly it should be Americunts

If I can't recreate it in my kitchen with a food processor and a pestle and mortar its too complicated and im not eating it.
- American food mentality.

What a brain dead post, which makes sense given the unfunny and lame as fuck “I’ve depicted the group I don’t like as soyjack” bs
- What a weird post to get upset and offended over
- Ok

442 comments