1y ago

My list of services I still miss on the fediverse

Hello folks

I don't think I'm the only one here who thinks the fediverse is a great technology that connects people all over the world via a robust decentralised network. This network encompasses the widest range of interest groups and the most diverse ways of interacting with each other. Whether forum, video or image platform, whether books or music network, everything is part of one big whole.

Despite this diversity of possibilities, I personally still miss some services that I would like to share with you.

dating apps - A decentralised, open source dating platform on which you can join instances according to interest groups or sexual preferences.
git hosting - A platform where you can host your git repos and collaborate on software projects across instances. (Forgejo is already working on it)
networking and personal profilation platform - A LinkedIn-like platform with instances by industry, interest or region where you can network, present yourself or exchange know-how.
crowdfunding and membership platform - A mixture of Patreon and Kickstarter where you can share your own content according to different support levels and crowdfund projects.
event, group organisation and community participation - A platform on which you can join groups like on Meetup and organise meetings but also internal group interactions like on slack or launch and support civic initiatives like on Decidim.

What do you think of this? What services do you still miss on the Fediverse?

66 comments

The only one here I think might not be appropriate (at least in the way that other fediverse platforms are structured) is dating apps. There's a much greater need for moderation, privacy, and safety when it comes to dating apps.
We do need something different, especially because all the big dating apps are controlled by a single company (and the rest form the rest of the oligopoly), but the Fediverse may not be the right way to do it. Open Source but centralized might be the way to go
- I am convinced that decentralisation and publicity and secure private chats are not mutually exclusive if you use the appropriate protocols: On the one hand you can have ActivityPub, which is suitable for communication and discoverability between instances, and on the other hand you could use a secure messaging protocol such as Matrix, which could then be used for private chats.
  I mean in the end you want to be discovered by other people so you need to provide some info about you. The good thing is that you decide what personal information you want to share with everyone and what details you only want to talk about with certain people.
  For your information: We already have a centralized, open source dating app. It's called Alovoa.
  
  For your information: We already have a centralized, open source dating app. It’s called Alovoa.
  The dev is also open to activitypub support
  Problems with problematic users can be solved by explicit whitelisting, or having credit card verification.
  
  Well if you’re convinced I’m sure everyone will jump on board then!
- Especially the safety aspect. The big platforms have extensive moderation tools to keep the creepers out. And most dating apps are still widely unappealing to women because most men on them are creepy as fuck. That's also why you can't send pictures or even links on Tinder: guys just won't stop sending dick pics as if that's appealing.
  I can't imagine if you can basically make a fully anonymous profile on an instance like exploding-heads and hexbear how fucking awful the experience would be, especially for women and minorities. And who do you trust to moderate your personal conversations going toxic, especially if the report propagates to the original also toxic enabling instance?
  Or the sheer amount of spam, OnlyFans baits and escort services that would dominate such a platform.
- As for dating apps, do you think gender disparity would be a problem? Largely queer communities like !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone would rejoice but straight men don't stand much of a chance.
  
  Also different fetish and kink communities.
- You've gotta remember, just because the norm is one way - there's an audience out there for which this would be a safety improvement.

Decentralized dating apps is a good way to make women feel incredibly unsafe. Not only is the fedi a more techy nerd crowd, it also has massive moderation issues. It's one bad thing to spam an instance with CP. It's even worse when you can make a fake profile to stalk someone with zero accountability and potentially put them in physical danger, while also being unbannable. I'm sure a rapist/stalker/murderer would totally be stopped by defederating their instance, right? They'd just spam multiple accounts for their target.
Moderation is extremely important here, and so is attracting a crowd which makes or breaks it, which the fedi is 100% not going to ever do. How would the fedi and developers respond if there was even a single rape/murder as a result of their platform and weak moderation? The whole thing would probably collapse.
Meet up groups are similar but not as targeted. That wouldn't be a bad idea though, since I guess someone leaving up a poster in town or something is kind of a form of that.
- These are all valid points which I partially forgot about and I'd love to write a follow up post reagrding this exact issue.
  I think that most of your concerns are addressable on a technical level. Others will rely on the instance's community to guarantee an even safer experience. This will also benefit these instances as they can advertise with this trust level they recieve from the users.
  
  I mean sure it can be solved easy enough: centralize it, and work with the authorities for reportable cases. Fork over the data. Exactly all the stuff most people in the fediverse wouldn't want, but there are serious upsides to having a central authority for such stuff.
  More specifically, anything that requires legal intervention or arbitration might be better off being centralized. This is exactly why crypto isn't really a valid model for money, our everyday usable of money needs a moderation and arbitration authority that is backed by actual legal enforcement. And dating apps need a way for people to report creepys and stalkers and in extreme cases, have the data be handed over to the police easily.
  
  There's a secondary issue of the ability to delete data. The fediverse is, in a way, anti-privacy. All it takes is for one instance to defederate between when you post something and when you delete it for a copy of it to live on forever.
- Not only is the fedi a more techy nerd crowd
  I don't like the implication that a techy nerd crowd is more dangerous to women than men on average. If that's what you mean to say, do you have evidence that it's true?
  Something I do think the fediverse really needs is a reputation system. I'm not sure exactly how it would work, but I can think of some properties it should have:
  Choice at several levels (user, server, community where that's a feature) about who to trust as sources of reputation information and what privileges require kind of reputation
  Positive reputation information should take time to build up
  Negative reputation information should be specific about the behavior that caused it, and possibly preserve some form of evidence
  People should be able to voluntarily tie multiple accounts together to combine their reputation

Mobilizon
- Wow that's great to hear! I will check it out.
- Impressive. Framasoft seems to be holding up much of this space all by itself.
  
  You can basically do that with Diaspora

I want:
Federated anime lists software - BookWyrm could be repurposed for this
Torrent trackers - private trackers might be able to work by having each user have a ratio depending on their instance, tracker instances opting in to being viewable by other instances as a whole and/or users individually
Booru-style image boards
a Neopets clone
For my final wish, I want a Tiktok clone. I don't really know if this could work while maintaining any level of user privacy, as what makes Tiktok work so well is the sheer amount of personal user data they keep, from watch times to likes to reposts to shares to even knowing what videos you leave the platform on. I think a fediverse-style Tiktok clone would only be accepted if it only relied on likes and reposts for personal algorithms.
Edit: Oh, and good federated wiki software.
- Ah yeah a federated wiki with instances for various topics. One focused on tech others on video games, ... Like a decentralized Fandom.
  
  YES.
  Fandom used to be good before it dropped community HTML/CSS customization... Now each wiki looks the same and not really good. The functionality has also been nerfed.
  Look how they massacred my boy! (Luckily, they switched to self-hosting)
- Not sure how a (de)federated Wiki would look like.
  Partially defederated comment sections of Lemmy posts can be pretty confusing. Users coming from different instances can see entirely different comment / reply structures.
  I'm not sure if that would be a problem with a Wiki, but it's certainly something to think through before starting.
  Another point: Why? Who gains what if a Wiki is federated? What problem does that solve?
- peertube could implement the ability for a tiktok clone
- I would love a federated neopets clone, had an idea for a time for a federated gaia online style avatar website

What I think is also missing is Disqus alternative too comment on websites with Fediverse accounts. Wordpress has an ActivityPub plugin, but it would be great to have something like this on static sites or other CMS software too.
- You can integrate Mastodon comments into your website with a little bit of JavaScript.

I want #3 the most.
- Yep, I hate LinkedIn for their stupid ads and “premium” features.
  
  Those are bothersome, plus it's less about collaborating and networking more and far more a channel for sales people to find you and try to sell you stuff. "Hey, let's connect and be friends, wanna see my SaaS?"
- I wonder if such a platform will gain acceptance beyond "nerdy techies" like us. There could be a working platform with apps and all, but if the suits find it "not professional enough"...
  
  I think I'm alright with that though lol.

I think a lot of you are confusing Federation with decentralization. They are not the same thing.
- Federation is a part of decentralization. Instead of one server you have multiple user run ones. It is not distribution though as there is no P2P component.
- I think you're confusing decentralized and distributed: https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/comparison-centralized-decentralized-and-distributed-systems/
  
  Exactly: I'd say federation and distribution are both a form of decentralization. Whereas distributed networks rely on P2P communication federated systems still have some centralized components but overall share no single point if failure.

https://noordsestern.medium.com/gitlab-gaining-fediverse-capabilities-4c7da56e918
That would help one of your ideas, probably

Some of these are available as mailing lists. I know it’s not the same thing, but it’s close.
I’m really excited for federated git hosting though. It would be cool to run my own instance and accept pull requests/issues from anyone on whatever instance.
- Mailing lists tend to become very cluttered and confusing over time.

Gancio
Also, check out https://fediverse.party/en/miscellaneous/ for a comprehensive list of services/apps available in the fediverse.

Yes, bring us the consensus engine

I would certainly be up for Ideas 3 and 5.

I'm not sure 4 could ever be workable, unless the funding, buying and donations can be done on a legal currency that doesn't track payer identity, operator identity or operator information. Like, you know, cash. Because I'm certainly not going to associate my random internet accounts with my IRL banking info. That would literally give banks the ability to censor the Fediverse.
- Does not have to be like that. Crypto can be used on the one hand and for creadit cards it would be an alternative to liberapay or ko-fi.
  
  crypto
  You mean those scam pseudo-coins where I can pay $10 today and it's worth $0.00093 for the receptor of the payment when they want to use it to eat tomorrow? Sure! That'll absolutely work!

gogs.io is open source
- But is it federated? Does it support ActivityPub?
  
  no? I don't think so but it is open source unlike GitHub

66 comments