May as well buy burgers in the US, since you already paid for most of it through taxes!

136 comments

It's worth noting that in countries like US, it's really only things like beyond burgers and impossible meat that cost more. It doesn't require eating those for a plant-based diet nor are people typically eating those every meal, is why plant-based diets generally have lower costs
Compared to meat eaters, results show that “true” vegetarians do indeed report lower food expenditures
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0921800915301488?via%3Dihub
It found that in high-income countries:
• Vegan diets were the most affordable and reduced food costs by up to one third.
• Vegetarian diets were a close second.
• Flexitarian diets with low amounts of meat and dairy reduced costs by 14%.
• By contrast, pescatarian diets increased costs by up to 2%.
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study
- Oh yeah I 100% spend less on food as a vegetarian, because black beans/lentils are such wonderful cheap sources of protein.
  But sometimes I want like the premade like meat crumbles or burgers, and those cost more usually.
  
  But do you spend less because you're vegetarian, or because you don't have options for spending money at fast food / restaurants?
- Yeah people really don’t believe me when I talk about how much I save by being a low fish pescatarian. A can of beans is cheaper than equivalent beef or chicken as are mushrooms. Peanut butter sandwiches are a cheaper lunch than lunch meat ones. And I’m not hurting for protein because beans are full of the stuff
  
  I’m not vegetarian, but I will stand by peanut butter being the best sandwich filling for packing lunch. Nothing compares to its ability to keep well in a room temperature ziploc bag.
- I realy don't get why people eat those meat subsidies. They are realy not that good and unhealthy too. Cooking a meal just with vegetables and other stuff can taste realy good, is healthy and cheap at the same time.
  
  Probably because Americans were raised on a super meat heavy diet. Meat burgers. Meat casseroles. Meat sauces. Meat everything. Fake meats make those recipes achievable for vegetarians and vegans who long for mom's home cooking.
  
  Want to hear some mind-blowing information? Not everyone likes the stuff you like, you're not the barometer on what is good or what is unhealthy.
  
  You want the real reason in a thread jerking off vegetarianism? Here goes:
  Meat tastes great.
  It gives me a sense of fullness that plants rarely do (except beans).
  It's a better protein source.
  The iron, B12, etc. in it are more easily absorbed.
  Every brand of fake meat I've tried tastes terrible.
  It makes me feel the best mentally compared to eating other foods.
  
  They're junk food and that's why I love them.
  It's the same impulse that keeps me buying Takis.

Reminder that farmers can spend something like a dollar per cow per year to allow their cattle to roam through public lands to cause erosion, shit in streams, spread giardia, and give farmers reasons to kill coyotes and wolves.
- Also a shame that cow farts emit a lot of methane.
  
  They surpsingly release most methane through burping, not farting. Even more surprising is that they burp so much methane that it is
  
  Edit: boost isn't displaying links with custom titles. Here it is: https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/30/us/cow-burps-methane-space-climate-trnd/index.html
  
  The solution to bovine methane emissions is to install a cowalitic converter inside their mufflers. Just like we do with quad udder milk exhaust collectors.
  
  And how much more water goes into growing meat
- This is mostly done in the western U.S. It also takes around 40 acres of land/cow. In drier areas it takes 200 acres per cow.
  In an irrigated field, with annual crops, and rotational grazing, we can feed 2-4 cows/acre depending on the location.
  We do not need to use 95% of the land we use for pasture.
  
  These numbers are highly inflated
- Large heards grazing is necessary for grasslands to thrive.
  They till the ground, knock down tall dead plants, graze (but not "browse" the grass), fertilize, and water the grass.
  Deer and other fauna do not knock down the grass the way bovine do. We used to have millions of Buffalo. Now we use cattle as a substitute.
  If we don't do that, we have to burn the grassland. Or it dies.
  That's what we used to do in Kansas. It was quite fun. And the government paid us to do it.
  Anyways. Here's some evidence to back up what I'm saying: TED TALK
  
  In some places, sure. But not everywhere they are. And you could/should reintroduce bison where they can go instead of using cattle. And the government should get more than the pittance they get per head.
- While this is true, BLM land doesn't exist everywhere and as such it isn't true of all cattle farmers.

Never say America can't afford to feed its people. It can, it just prefers to prop up failing and immoral industry instead.
- It can afford to feed rich people.
  
  It can afford to feed rich people. Exactly.
  Feeding and eating well are two different things.

Here it's not just that.
The raw resources and production costs of oat milk is like, €0.30 per 2 liter.
They sell it at €2.40.
Healthy is capitalism here.
- I believe they also put a lot of resources into research
  
  Oat milk is just oats blended in water. The research is minimal. The marketing is where they put most of their money.
- Doesn't production of not milk use a ton of water and have am environmental impact
  One of the trends I have noticed with vegan users online is that they neglect to mention the environmental impacts of their own alternative products

Corn farmers have entered the chat
- Sorry corn farmers, this is about people food. Growing fuel doesn't really count.
  Growing corn that is only usable as animal feed counts as part of how beef industry is being propped up by the government.
  So yeah... I think only one or two corn farmers will be left in the chat after that.
  
  I think they were referring to corn subsidies

If you learn how to make your own patties from scratch it's pretty cheap - or to save time you can do what I do and eat beans directly from the air fryer 🤤
- oh damn I have an air fryer
  recipe?
  
  I actually just rinse off canned beans, spray them with vegetable oil, toss em in at 400F for 8-12 minutes, then shake them in a baggie with salt and spices. Or mix them in a bowl with hot sauce. Or use them as a topping for rice. Or throw them in stir fry. Or sauteed onions and bell peppers, then put them on tortillas.
  God damn I love air fried beans

Absolutely fucked up that your taxes go to supporting animal abuse whether you like it or not. Although, arguably worse is how many people don't even give the animals' suffering a second thought and just take the selfish path. Even fucking stupider is that chicken can be bought at the same price as tofu per kg. Like what the shit? Stop subsidising it. It's environmentally destructive and incredibly immoral.
- I've always thought that vegan activists would be a lot more successful if they could end these meat subsidies, instead of harassing the public. If the price of meat triples no one is going to be eating meat regardless of their politics.
  
  Yeah but good luck getting anything passed when the GOP and all of the animal agriculture lobbying industry will be screaming from the rooftops about how everyone's favorite foods will be more expensive.
  
  Forcing people to do something is easier than making them change wilfully. But people still should have the moral integrity to make the right choice regardless. Plus, people are so propagandised and indoctrinated by the industry from politicians and other bullshit that it would be an incredibly hard battle to fight.

Depends. If you are eating non processed vegetables the costs goes way below even burgers.
- Oh yeah for sure! Just sometimes I wanna go to a place and order a similar looking thing as the people around me without paying a ton more XD
- And beans. And lentils. And peas.
  Also, opting for the burger options doesn't have to mean eating a huge quantity of them.
- You can make vegan bean burgers for way less money than beef. A can of beans, flax seeds, bread crumbs, garlic and an onion are all you need.

Just another toxic ad FUCK capitalist system. Fuck the planet they got quarterly profits to beat!!

My favorite is that a a celiac, all the gluten free stuff is 20% more expensive. Because you know, rice and tapioca are such expensive, exotic ingredients

It's funny you mention this, because a few days ago I went to my local market to grab milk, and the regular milk was more expensive that the plant-based milk...never thought I'd see this day in the US!

"May as well" -- how about October, March and August?

Oh man, staple crops are subsidized waaaaaayyy more heavily than beef. Some of this grain goes to the beef industry as feed, so it is indirectly supported by taxes. But the reality is that the soy, barley, beans, or whatever else is in that veggie burger are subsidized directly and more extensively.
- Where in the WORLD did you hear that bit of propaganda?
  https://agriculturefairnessalliance.org/news/2020-farm-subsidies/
  https://scet.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/CopyofFINALSavingThePlanetSustainableMeatAlternatives.pdf
  https://www.aier.org/article/the-true-cost-of-a-hamburger/
  https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2022/02/usda-livestock-subsidies-near-50-billion-ewg-analysis-finds
  I can't even find any source saying more money is spent on any crop than on beef. It seems like it's totally made up. The numbers vary because it's hard to pin down, but I can't find a source saying anything besides "most subsidiaries go towards beef and dairy"
  
  ... The very first link you provided shows a chart that has more assistance going to corn than beef, more going to soy than dairy and more going to wheat then pigs.
  https://agriculturefairnessalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/2020bdcat-1320x743.png
  ???
- Many of those types of crops used for feed aren't really aligned all that well. Corn for instance isn't going used so heavily in a plant-based diet as it is subsidized (corn is the most subsidized crop in the US). There is also separate food-grade and feed-grade soybeans. 90% of US soy production is going to feed (and not to mention a good portion of the other 10% is going to soybean oil which is not super helpful for a plant-based meat)
  90% of U.S. soybeans produced are used as a high-quality protein source for animal feed
  https://soygrowers.com/key-issues-initiatives/key-issues/other/animal-ag/
  Further, they are still getting massive amounts of direct subsidies
  The Department of Agriculture has spent almost $50 billion in subsidies for livestock operators since 1995, according to an EWG analysis.
  By contrast, since 2018 the USDA has spent less than $30 million to support plant-based and other alternative proteins that may produce fewer greenhouse gases and may require less land than livestock.
  https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2022/02/usda-livestock-subsidies-near-50-billion-ewg-analysis-finds
  Also worth mentioning that beans are not particularly highly subsidized unless you are counting soybeans mentioned earlier.

May as well not considering willful complicity in their deaths is wrong.
- Oh well yes.
  If it wasn't obvious I'm a raging vegetarian. Just annoying.
  
  Go Vegan

Yes I could stop eating a pound a day but keto and vegetarian don't mix well

Beef is more nutritious though.
So giving subsidies for that means more people can afford good nutritious food.
- I read that veggie burgers/ processed vegetarian foods have more human DNA in them than traditional options. Plus beef is delicious and nutritious.
  
  If you knead bread by hand, it'll have some human DNA in it from e.g your skin cells. It's almost impossible to cook or process food while preventing it from getting literally any human cells into it, because humans are shedding cells and DNA literally all the time. You can wear gloves, hairnets, and frequently mop up, but eliminating the problem entirely is hard.
  Both a vegetarian burger and a beef burger are probably going to have more human DNA in it than either a steak or a pot of black beans would.

Why is vegan lingo so infantile? Veggies. You can cram you veggies up your asshole. I'm having a burger.
- Tons of people say veggies. Including meat eaters.
  
  I also think it's worth noting that the meme says "veggie burgers."
  I don't think I've ever seenveggie burgers, vegan restaurant or not, labelled as "vegetable burgers." Dude wanted to be upset just to be upset lmao.
- Really? That's the angle you're going for? Lmao you're offended by the word "veggies", a word nearly universally used by nearly every English speaker? Uh oh, looks like your fragile masculinity is showing
  
  my masculinity is big and hard

Don't give a fuck. Tax the rich, then we can worry about what I eat.
Veganism is class warfare.
- I don't think you understand what class warfare is.
  The fact that it's co-opted by rich people as trying to convince you that environmental disasters they cause is your problem doesn't change any points made by actual vegans, or the fact that it's far far cheaper. Even with all the subsidies given out, a pound of black beans/lentils has more calories/protein than a pound of beef, and will cost 1/5 the price. Sure if I want to splurge and buy a premade veggie burger it's more expensive, but generally it's just way more affordable.
  
  I think you're ignoring the general capacity for vegans to maintain nutritionally complete diets without supplements.
  And last time I checked, the rich don't concern themselves with the cost of nutrition. You're so deep in the class warfare you can't even see the front lines.

Or vegans are more affluent and locked in so the take what they can get.
- Americans earning less than $30,000 annually are more likely to identify as vegetarian. Nine percent of this group say they are vegetarian, a higher percentage than is true of Americans in the two higher-income groups. Differences in levels of veganism among these three groups are not statistically significant.
  Gallop poll
  
  That's me, involuntarily vegetarian, inveg?
  
  So it's just.abuse of the limited options for vegans. Sounds like a new burger chain in the making that offers same prices for everybody.
- No, it’s the first one.

136 comments