More Than 80 Percent Of Americans Can’t Afford New Cars
Experts say you should earn $100K before buying a new car so you don’t spend more than ten percent of your monthly income on payments
We should not be building our cities in ways that necessitate owning a car.
That ship has sailed a long time ago
It's gonna be crashing on the shore pretty soon at this rate.
not really. it's a choice that's remade every year. we can fix it, and people are trying.
It's about oil and profits. They want us to need a car to go anywhere. More cars, more oil, more profits, RIGHT?
Nerevar, what do you need a car for? You have all the siltstriders in the world at your disposal. Here, take the keys to Juan Angelito. He's my favorite.
Just bought an 11 year old car for 12k. Because a new one would've wiped out my savings and then some after saving for 5 years to replace my 20 year old car. Nobody can afford shit.
I'm curious. What car did you buy? I hate how everything is so inflated. I bought a mint civic si for 8 grand like 6 years ago. I kinda want insight/realize everything is fucked.
We picked up a 12 year old civic hatchback before Covid for 5k and it was in immaculate like-new condition, low miles. It got totaled right after our other car’s engine finally wore out. I then found a 10 year old Toyota for 16k. It was the lowest price in a 200-mile radius for cars/small trucks with under 150k miles on them that weren’t limping/totaled/savaged.
It was fucking flabbergasting.
You got yours 6 years ago. 8k was about average for a decent used car then. Now you're paying almost full price for a 5 year old car or if you're okay with a shit box that may or may not last then you can drop 5k. I got a 2012 GTI.
Don't buy a new car. New cars are for rich suckers. Cars are the most common type of depreciating asset.
I saw this on TikTok and it's been burned into my brain since.
https://cdn1.frocdn.ch/vZBqPK4EuWepdGt.mp4 (link might not work with some security settings).
The amount of money seemingly regular people are dumping into car payments is unreal.
I've had 3 cars the first was 10yo when i bought it, the second was 3yo when i got it, the last one was new. Each one lasted 5 years, 12 years and then 10 years respectively. Moved to a walkable/bikeable city & I don’t even have a driver's license anymore. New cars are not bad as long as it doesn't get changed out every other year, and you get one that is a reliable model.
Taking out a loan for a vehicle does not mean you are rich lol.
Anyone can get financing for a shitty new car, not everyone can figure out how to retire by the age of 55
I can't even afford an old car lol
Same here, why I went with a motorcycle instead lol
Yet CEOs and billionaires are making more money than ever. Something has to give and soon...
Right, right after the article about tech workers living in “pods”. I mean, how much money are they making for other people? And then I know of this millionaire (who made his money in f’ing health insurance) with an 18,000 square foot house by Vail that his family visits twice a year for a few weeks.
I can’t afford a used car. My dad helped me buy my current car and if it does I’m fucked.
2 years ago I was in need of a new truck (work related). Practically all the used stuff that's worth a dam was priced not far behind if not more than new. The kicker, the new ones I was interested in weren't available...so I was forced to buy used.
The newest car I’ve ever owned (and currently own) is a 2007 model. Not gonna lie, with all the BS getting loaded into cars nowadays I think I’ll keep it that way. It’s easier just to have a couple of cheap shitboxes in the driveway that way you have something to drive when one of them inevitably needs work
I got a almost new 2021 last year and there's no key hole for the door so when the key fob battery died in the middle of the winter I was stuck outside looking up on YouTube how to unlock my car . Turns out you have to pry off a piece of plastic that I ended up breaking to use my key to unlock the door . It also sets off an alarm when you open the car that way . Who thought that was a good idea ! To make things worse it was like -30 C and I had my 5 year old with me because we where sliding.
shrug and?
I know most people want "New cars" and fine, go chase that over priced luxury, but I'd rather a car that's 1-2 years old that's dropped more than half the price, and being passed over because new shiny thing came out.
People shouldn't have to drive beaters, but buying a car for 10k isn't a bad decision unless you're extremely well off our only care about status symbols.
Like there's a reason I was able to buy a house, and a good job helped, but also my wife and I lived with in our means, which is something I feel that isn't talked about in the consumerism age. (You can buy something new, but for most things you don't need a yearly iphone/car/or anything. A good 50 inch tv works well for a tenth of the price of the newest one. ) And yet I see people complain about not having a lot of money yet they're always talking about the newest graphics cards, newest tvs, and newest tech.... I wonder why.
I’d rather a car that’s 1-2 years old that’s dropped more than half the price [...]
Except that doesn't really happen anymore. Shoot, I've seen some cars appreciate in value after they roll off the lot in recent years. Hoping that reverses soon, but it sure isn't like it used to be.
Take the Toyota 4runner for example - they're incredibly reliable because they are simplistic in many ways with bullet proof components. You can even find 5 year old models that are within 5k of a new one.
Yeah it's insane. I bought a 1 year old Hyundai and knocked tons of depreciation off an already cheaper brand.
At my work people be driving around in leased Range Rovers/AMG Mercs. Then they will take the piss out of my car.
Seriously? I now have more disposable income because i'm not wasting it renting a car and also I own my car... It should be me bragging
I got a 2021 car last year with 6000km on it . It was almost full price .
Probably because it only had 6000 km on it. Average is closer to 15000 km/year.
I have a 2020 rav4 and it is only valued at $3k less than what I paid for it brand new. This isn’t a reality anymore.
Arguable the case for purchasing a brand new vehicle starts to make more sense as BEV become the majority as the batteries are a consumable that degrades with use and time. So long as the increased price is offset by the longer utilization of that battery.
Yeah, of course... But they're also replaceable. You can even check the individual cells, swap out the worst ones with cells from other used packs, and end up getting back up to decent capacity. There's a whole statistics, mean time to failure aspect to batteries - it's not going to take them back to new, but swapping out the worst cells can get you a lot better performance
Or you could just replace the batteries with newer, likely better, battery banks. The first option needs a certain scale, but would be cheap, the second would be a straight range upgrade over even the factory range.
There's also the fact that electric cars are much more mechanically simple - this is unlikely to catch on under our current economic system, but it's way easier to swap electric motors than an engine...
My points being, I think we need to make way less cars, and electric cars are actually easier to repair (at least from a physics and resource perspective, hostile design and economic pressures could easily eat up that difference)
but also my wife and I lived with in our means, which is something I feel that isn’t talked about in the consumerism age.
the problem is the basic cost of living is going up beyond what can be afforded and people scream at you about not making extremely bad decisions you didn't even make and don't have to in order to end up struggling.
At today's car prices, it's actually cheaper for some people to use a rideshare every day. Especially when you factor in the cost of gas, maintenance, insurance,and parking. My friend drove for Uber and had a regular daily commuter, a nurse who worked in Houston's medical center where parking is around $30/day. We have no good mass transit options so Uber was the best choice.
Sadly it's dependent on the area, my current area rideshare situation is so bad that it can take you almost an hour to get a driver who won't cancel your trip because they deem that your trip is not profitable enough. The system's fucked so you're pushed to get a car so you can have mobility. This is doubly so when you've started having children.
People living in Central/Eastern Europe: 80%? Amateurs.
I don't know ANYONE who has a new car produced in last couple of years here in Poland. According to some statistic average age of car is 15.5 years here, in fact I drive 11 year old car myself. There's just no way I am going to dump so much cash on a freaking car (and personally I'd rather buy some nice electric bicycle instead).
and personally I'd rather buy some nice electric bicycle instead
This is exactly the reason I bought a new and good bike for the price of a used car. And what's more is that the exercise that comes with it is free and the insurance is exponentially lower.
We really need to make more bike friendly infrastructure around the world so more people have the same option as I have.
hard fucking agree. we need to infiltrate the road design manual committees and get it written in that it's mandatory to have protected bike lanes on any road with more than 4 lanes of traffic and not a freeway
Opel Astra, forever and ever
Truly reliable beasts, my family used to drive a mid 90's Astra F for like 18 years and then it basically rusted away pretty quickly. Engine and everything else was totally fine. I think the only part we had to replace was the alternator...
481K new cars were sold in Poland in 2022, so it definitely happens. Sure, that's 3 times fewer than in France (which has twice the population, though), but it's far from "anyone".
And yes, I know you said you "don't know" anyone who bought one, not that they don't exist, but I take your meaning to be that it doesn't happen/is very rare.
Yeah, that's why public transit and multi purpose zoning are important
exactly. fuck cars
about $800 last year for auto insurance
this year the number is about $1400
same vehicle same city
income stayed the same if not lower due to less work
new vehicles are more than likely unaffordable seeing how expensive a ten year old vehicle is
how the f#%k are we not in the streets
Same boat. Insurance costs have been going up for the last few years. I tried to talk to them about it... they said 'well everyone else is getting in accidents, you don't even know!!! It's crazy out there'. Same vehicle. My only 'options' were to let them install a bunch of tracking devices and software (fuck that) or reduce my coverage considerably.
Gosh I love the for profit insurance I'm forced to have that gets to dictate everything.
New cars?
Shit, we can't even afford groceries
A nonreligious Amen to that.
Here's another reason why taking transit doesn't bother me. For five bucks a day I can listen to podcasts and music and read books for 30 minutes, and let someone else take care of everything, I do not love everything about the bus (really you have to make everyone disembark during rush hour so you can cram your obesity scooter on there so you can go to Tim Hortons so nobody else can sit down?), but honestly it's pretty stress free. I realize not everyone has access to transit but I think people should make more effort to use it.
The problem I run into is time. And sometimes location. My previous job, for instance, was far enough out that there was no bus service; I had to drive. My only other option was a 2-hour transit ride and then a half-hour bike ride, partly on gravel roads.
And my friend has a job that’s 15 minutes by car, or 45 minutes away by bus. Even worse, with recent construction messing with the trains, his commute has gone to 2 hours plus.
And this is in a city with a decently robust transit system.
The biggest problem I run I to with transit in most cities is the time sink, security flaws, and expense.
I drive to a park and ride where I have to pay 12 dollars to have my car broken into. Then wait 20 minutes to pamy another $15 to take the light rail that drops me off 8 blocks from my destination, then wait 20 minutes to pay 5 bucks for the bus that drops me 2 blocks away, then walk to my destination.
Or I could drive straight to my destination, pay 8 bucks for the parking garage with a security gate, and save an hour.
really you have to make everyone disembark during rush hour so you can cram your obesity scooter on there so you can go to Tim Hortons so nobody else can sit down?
Has it...occurred to you that some disabled people have mobility issues or pain disorders that limit mobility to begin with, and that weight gain is a byproduct of not being able to walk or move or stand for very long without trouble?
I had a boss who had dwarfism and used a wheelchair 80% of the time. 20% of the time he slowly, painfully did hobble about--but it was clear as day WHY he was higher weight than he should've been. My own blood pressure would spike hearing the tiny sounds of pain he made when got out of his wheelchair and moved.
I have a friend with POTS--and if you're unfamiliar with that, basically she stands up and her blood pressure and heart rate is malfunctioning so her heart acts like she's running a marathon, the beats per minute go insane...but blood is pooling in her feet and they're turning purple where you can't see it because things are out of whack and despite her heart going haywaire, there's not enough pressure to get the blood out of her feet and elsewhere. This condition happened prior to any weight gain.
I can hear her breath start to go wobbly just doing simple things because her body doesn't regulate her blood pressure and heart rate normally. She's gained weight because she's at risk of passing the fuck out if she is on her feet for very long--she has to literally plan out doing simple things like going to the grocery store because if she pushes herself she might end up downed on the sidewalk relying on the helpfulness of strangers to get back up. It's taken her many years to accept she really shouldn't be pushing herself into a collapse because she's worried that people will judge her for being "lazy and fat". Comments like yours about "obesity scooters" only act to tear down all the people who ARE trying their hardest and still having their body fail them.
I have a different friend who has thyroid problems, she inherited them from her mom (and her bro has them too), and weight is a removed for her to manage because her thyroid is fried.
I just broke my foot in July, and watched my weight inch up because it's really fucking hard to get up stairs when you can't put weight on one foot. I was semi bedbound for like 2 months. I'm LUCKY in that my foot will heal, but I don't even snack and I gained 15lbs because of that one little temporary mobility issue. I'm LUCKY in that once it heals, I will be able to move normally and lose what I gained.
You could've made your point about transit without taking pot-shots at disabled people, who often are stuck in a terrible situation of their body failing them medically, and society often forcing them into poverty to be able to access the care they need.
Seriously, why isn't it possible to champion mass public transit for all without shitting on the people who use it by necessity currently?
We're you refered to physical therapy after breaking your foot? Or are you able to see if insurance will pay because your mobility has been reduced?
I had several injuries in the military that left me unable to stand, walk, drive a car, or balance for very long. With the help of physical therapy I was eventually able to walk properly, then after some time I was able to take a ride to work a job where I was sometimes sitting but often standing. Eventually I was able to work and exercise enough that I got all my balance and mobility back.
Having public transit helped me when I still didn't have enough fine motor control to operate a pedal and brake.
Not everyone is on the same journey, but please see if you can access physical therapy. Please advocate for not just healing but making yourself whole.
You don't have to go to Tim Hortons at rush hour when everyone is using it to go to work and school, and inconvenience everyone on the bus making them late while you back your scooter on because you just have to go get your 12 pack of donuts right now. Just wait a little while until the buses are quieter for pity's sake.
Well there's that and the fact that if you're a tradesman --or woman, or whatever-- having a truck or van can be pretty crucial to your ability to make a decent income.
I currently have a company vehicle, but for years, prior to my current position and when I was a contractor, I was obliged to own my own truck or van for very basic practical reasons.
I have no idea why the Dacia Sandero is not brought to the US. $15,000 for a new car. They would be competing with the mirage and Rio all of which cost much more and are lower quality.
It was bad enough before supply chain issues, but now the car companies and dealerships are so used to ridiculous margins and they want to keep it this way as long as possible. Something's got to give eventually, but if I've learned anything since the great recession of 2008, it's that things can stay terrible for a very, very, very long time.
They have been terrible and they never got better, then we shot that gorilla and the end of the world began.
Truth be told.
the rise of ebikes is the likely solution. young people especially are going to go without cars for longer and use an ebike or escooter. expect to see more on the roads, and more of them getting ran over by lifted trucks. this will likely lead to more protected bike lanes going in since getting rid of the micromobility is impossible and they have to go somewhere and the people who use them won't be able to afford a car
Experts say you should not spend more then 30% of your income on housing (shelter, heat, water, sewer and electricity). If you need a car (live outside a city, have bad city planing, etc.) then this is one more pressure on people.
The current “normal” world exists now only for people making a lot more then the average.
Oh and to better illustrate the gap between prices and wages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage Compare to an average price of 48k https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43611570/average-new-car-price-down-still-high/
Honestly you shouldn't even spend that on a car. Cars lose value overtime and are a bad investment.
Take your money and put it into a emergency fund or retirement
Thing is, if you need a car you cant afford to not have one. My options are buy a used car or a new car. Used cars are difficult to gauge reliability. And anything less than 5 years old is only ~5k under the price of a new car.
Mf subaru people had the gall to show me 2018 forester with 20k miles on it and be like "$29,000". For reference, a new, 2023 forester with no miles costs $31,000. Insane.
Your choices are currently: buy a reliable used car for the MSRP of a new car and less warranty, buy a very old, unreliable used car for 2x-6x what it was worth 3 years ago, or buy a new car at or above MSRP.
Shits fucked yo.
Ok, so there is no public transit here and even though I walk and use my peddle powered bike for in town whenever I can, I would not be able to make a living without a car like thing. No one with half a working brain is thinking that their daily driver is an investment. Hell a lot of people (me in the past) spend more working time in that car then not. A car like device is not a optional luxury for most people in North America. This is sadly the world we live in outside of major (and even not all major) cities.
When have most Americans ever been able to afford to buy new?
Has the US been anything but a scam since its inception?
After the “cash for clunkers” thing reduced the used car market buying new made more sense because of price and warranty. You also get better financing rates on new vs used. Bought my Subaru new in 2019 and could sell it for about what I paid.
I was told in the 90's that in America if your car was 3 years old, your neighbor might worry you weren't doing too well, and you could buy 6 year old luxury cars for peanuts.
Luxury cars are notorious for not holding their value, unless by "luxury" you mean performance cars, so that's normal.
I was born after the 90s so I wouldn't know, but generally speaking I'd always heard the average car in America is ten years old.
I guess that's why used car prices are through the roof too. My neighbor bought a nice but 6 year old car 2½ years ago, he can sell it now at he same price he gave! We bought an older car 4 years ago, and there is no way we can get a similar deal today, prices in this segment have almost doubled! And the prices were already inflated 4 years ago.
It's ridiculous how expensive used cars have become.
It's just a $1300/mo payment. What's the big deal?
$650/mo for the Corolla GR + full insurance = $850 with trade in and 5k down.
For a $36k car thanks to dealer tax.
No thank you.
Why owning an average car costs $650 000+
Maybe Americans should move the subsidies they give car owners, car companies, oil companies, etc. to public transport? Well, Europe should do that too, but if Europe can't there's no hope for America.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Why owning an average car costs $650 000+
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
In my 40's here and never bought a new car. Every one gets a little less old though!
Same, but I've never bought an old car either, or gotten a drivers license. But I'm in the Netherlands and the times I truely need a car are negligible.
Honestly good. There are plenty of used and pre-owned vehicles that just need minor repairs or tune-ups. I drive a used 2015 Chevy Spark, financed it back in 2022 and it's nearly paid off. My car only needed a new battery, new tires, and an oil change. My mom on the other hand financed a new luxury Acura RDX back in 2018 as an upgrade from her 2006 Honda CRV, she's still making payments to this day. I asked why she didn't get a newer Honda CRV and she said that she didn't want the same vehicle as a McDonald's worker.
I mean, that's how it's always been, isn't it? When I was young, admittedly some time ago, there would be that one guy where you lived who had his own business, and bought a new car every three years
Literally everyone else had second hand cars. Peer pressure and advertising are the only things that have changed this
In fact, cars are far more reliable now so it makes more sense to buy second hand now
Incidentally, I used to have a rule about 20 years ago that I'd never buy a car between 5 and 8 years old because that's when everything started to go wrong. After that, all the shitty bits had been replaced!
I wonder if that's changed or shifted now
That's my car in the picture that I bought this year! Subaru and government fucked me out of my 8K rebate and locked me into the purchase to try and get it or losing $3k.
I have to pay 20% of my income on this loan, Subaru provided a low interest rate loan because of the rebate thing while loan interest rates were over like 6%. I do pay more though making it 25% of my income. Combined with my mortgage I am paying 50% of my income on loans.
Since it is electric and my commute was costing me $160 prior, I am saving about $100/month on gas at least. After 3 years I should have it paid off early. Thinking of getting solar afterwards so hopefully one year in my life my costs will go down enough that I can afford to do nice things or retire.
I'll rather buy used car and have no monthly payment anyways. A new car is among the worst investments to spend your money on.
The example the article gives is pretty extreme to me:
[Greg] McBride, the Bankrate analyst, walked MarketWatch through a hypothetical car-buying scenario for an average-priced new car that cost $48,000. Taking into account the trade-in value of your existing vehicle, let’s say you knock some money off the sticker price and finance a $40,000 purchase price at 7.5% for five years. That’s an $801 monthly payment — which means you would need to make $96,100 a year if you wanted that payment to be 10% of your income.
I don't think I'd ever want to spend half a yearly income on any single purchase. An investment in a house being the only exception.
It's completely wild to me that the default for buying a car comes up to a monthly payment, why not pay cash? Save those 800 for three months, buy a beater for 2400. While driving this into the ground, continue saving the 800, even if that beater craps out after six months, you can upgrade to a 4800 not-so-crappy beater, rinse and repeat, and at some point you saved up the 48000 to get that new car. Financing something that depreciates in value quickly and exponentially at anything above the inflation rate is, financially speaking, complete and utter nonsense to me.
There are many factors at play. Surely, a huge one is status. It's why one of the most desireable keywords to associate with vehicles (as picked by buyers) is "luxurious."
But then there is everything else. My state requires annual inspections. And you must fully repair that vehicle, including to modern emission specs, before it is legal and able to be registered. That alone will cost more than a beater in many cases since they are, well, a beater. A vehicle so old it is essentially driven until it is in a state of disrepair. As someone else said, saving money becomes difficult with a beater eventually because the cost of repairing it to keep it legal eventually outpaces your savings if you aren't operating on a short timeline.
Personally, I make good money and still drive my old vehicle because it is good enough. I have peers who do the same: our priorities are elsewhere, like paying for private school tuition for the kids or whatever. But I also know howmit ends eventually: accidents, causes by other people, which totals your vehicle because it's value is so low or damage so significant. And there isn't a lot of beaters on the market here anymore. So people are forced to buy new or take a slight discount for used (insomuch as monthly payments go). Used prices are just that crazy.
We did this and with the amount of times we had to get it towed for repairs as well as job risk due to it breaking down was not feasible for us. We finally were approved for a loan and purchased a reliable new car
Those are extreme cases.. they're buying a 48k car (that seems on the high side) but trading in an 8k car (so old/cheap or both).. of course the loan is going to be large.
Normally you'd time the trade.. my current car was an upgrade on my last but the monthly payments reduced because I timed it so the value of my existing car was reasonably high.
Out of curiosity I went looking to see what the 2023 price is for my car and I'm really scared of how I'd afford a new one. After having two used cars turn into death traps I'm not interested in used cars. Even used cars are expensive now too.
This is why I really hope we prioritize public transit as much as possible. Cars are insanely expensive, and if we spent a fraction of that money on public transit it could be awesome. I don’t want people like you to end up in a situation where your car breaks down and you can’t get around and can’t afford to fix it / get a new one. That’s really scary :(. Having good public transit infrastructure is an important social safety net.
They're also pretty much exclusively sell SUVs or heavier cars, these are intentionally pricier
And worse for the environment and exempt from stricter fuel economy standards
Across the pond in the UK they're expanding ULEZ and this is a major sticking point. You need to upgrade to more fuel efficient cars, right when buying shopping is expensive enough. They want you to get new cars, and the majority cannot aford them.
Buying shopping? What does that mean?
In the UK “the shopping” means food, groceries, and other essentials (although it can mean luxury items too). Giving phrases like “I’ll carry in the shopping” or “I’m going out for the shopping”.
So saying it’s expensive to be buying shopping is saying food, etc. is expensive.
Great news!
Yeah fr lmao maybe if new cars weren't littered with privacy infringement, I'd be upset about this
Smart vehicles aren't so smart anyway, they screw your privacy, even they would record car sex inside.
I'm European and I'm disabled so I don't earn a lot. I plan on swapping my 30 years old Opel Corsa with a Yaris sometime in the far future. It'll be the last car I buy. Oh, I hate SUVs.
I hate the trend of everyone driving SUVs. I drive a small sedan and I hate not being able to see around me because everyone is driving big SUVs or trucks.
Plus, I get blinded with their lights because their headlights are shining on my rearview mirror.
You can drive through the poorest looking neighborhood but they'll still have a $60K+ pickup parked in front.
Yeah a lot of people love their car or truck more than anything else in life. Which is crazy when you think there’s such a high risk of it being totaled at a moments notice with normal usage.
And a very poor investment. Not too many worse investments other then scuba equipment and get rich schemes.
Then why don't you just buy used? Anyway the argument used is problematic and misleading. I could easily poke holes in there argument
Prices are still up and quality down in the used market. They’re not near the absurd level they were two years ago, but you’re getting a car with a lot more miles and abuse for way more money than you would have paid pre-covid. Problem is that a lot of these car resellers like Carvana are offering more than dealerships for used car trade ins, then re-sell them for higher prices and have way less hassle than trying to sell your car via private sale. So that convenience drives up all the prices for used cars and reduces dealer and private sale used inventory.
So “just buy used” isn’t the fix you think it is. Sure, it will be less, but you’re getting less car and a car closer to problem mileage markers.
It fixes it for me. I just go to the local car shop and see what they have. I work on my own car to maintain it and it has lasted me a long time.
where do used cars come from? storks? no, from new cars. if 80% of Americans can't afford a new car what do you think that's gonna do to the used car market?
good
Ugh yeah I'm waiting on the Tesla M2.. The problem with car companies is they keep on adding more crap that 80% of people don't need, that adds more points of failure while increasing pricing
That's why I drive a 2007 chevy pickup. Most things I can fix myself and the only thing that's going to get it off the road is rust in 20 or 30 years
I... Don't think that stat refers to you
It's a 25k car that I'm taking out a loan for.. The gas savings alone make it pretty much free.. I just don't see spending upwards of $40k
![[HN] More Than 80 Percent of Americans Can't Afford New Cars](https://radiation.party/pictrs/image/021d0161-de1a-4b5b-9f00-65b221218899.jpeg?format=webp&thumbnail=196)