Programming @programming.dev ck_ @discuss.tchncs.de 1y ago

The forbidden topics of hacker communities

drewdevault.com The forbidden topics

unions @sh.itjust.works CCL @links.hackliberty.org 1y ago

The forbidden topics

drewdevault.com /2023/09/29/The-forbidden-topics.html

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42 comments

They wrote “I’m being censored” when they should have said “nobody will listen to my rambling”.
The author went out of his way to make a reasonable point in the most absurd way possible.

Which I guess is an achievement.
The forbidden topics are rape and assault? By "hacker" does the person mean white hats and black hats? Or "hacker = somebody who writes code"?
- It refers to the hacker subculture in a rather broad sense I'd say, as in "People who enjoy fiddling and building stuff with computers / electronics adjacent".
  
  🤔 IMO they aren't forbidden, just off-topic. Most of the time they are allegations. Allegations are just that, allegations. Until a court has decided whether they are true or not, they should be taken as just that, allegations. It is undeniable that rape and assault allegations have more impact than most allegations.
  
  If a court verdict were shared, then it would be much more substantial, but even then, to most people, they are of little impact. What do I care if some person I don't know is convicted or not convicted of a crime? It's hard enough to remember the names of all my cousins, let alone some stranger on the web.
But what community is the author talking about? I only skimmed but I still have no clue whom this article concerns. There must be some context I'm missing, but then it would have more sense for the author to give some links, now this just reads like some rambling that has nothing to do with programming
- I think the point it to raise awareness that those issues are real and people suffer gravely from them. The idea is that we as members of a community, any community really, show a level of awareness and actually speak out against abuse and toxic behavior in the spaces we participate in.
  
  Oh I definitely agree, and it is a problem virtually everywhere unfortunately. But that's also why I was wondering why this article here, specifically. I looked at the other article of yours, it's even worse than I thought
- His last article, which is referenced in the current article, gives context:
  
  https://drewdevault.com/2023/09/17/Hyprland-toxicity.html
  
  Hmm I don't see the link in the posted article. Thanks!
  
  Wow thanks. This person seems to thrive on creating drama.
I agree with basically everything said in the article.

It's also a bad article.

It's twice as long as it could be while only saying half as much as it should. An unfalsifiable thesis with an amorphous CTA, and a self-righteous, self-fulfilling conclusion.

How about we get some thinkers on this issue instead of loquacious parrots who love the sound of their own virtue-signaling.
- it's a trend to bloat text lately. recipes, blog posts, LLM output, scrum meeting speeches when working remote.
Of course, it's forbidden, that's definitely a more parsimonious explanation than people simply not being interested in reading rape allegations on a tech news aggregator, a technical mailing list or a Github issues page, of all places.

edit: or the Lemmy programming community.
- That's a bit like saying "I'm not interested in compiler warnings, my program works for me." The issues this article discusses are like compiler warnings, but for the community. You should be free to ignore them, just by scrolling past. But forbidding compiler warnings would not fly in any respectable project.
  
  To clarify, I am alleging that a lot of this "censorship" is just mods deleting posts which have been sufficiently downvoted by people like me who are not particularly interested in the alleged sexual crimes or social justice plights of people, especially when we actually want to read about tech. Give me a way to filter this out a priori or use dedicated channels to discuss it and I won't have to downvote it.
  
  To use your analogy, write your warnings to stderr which I can easily redirect to /dev/null while still consuming the program output, and we're golden.
Edit: I misunderstood, my comment doesn't add anything of value but you can still read it if you choose.

spoiler

Any speech which suggests that the listener may find themselves subject to a non-majority-conforming person in a position of power, or even that of a peer, will have crossed the line; one must speak as a victim seeking the pity and grace of your superiors to be permitted space to air your grievances.

What possible grievance do you have with intersex people?

Do people think before they say things anymore or is it just a race to put as many words on the paper as you can?
- Pretty sure they are arguing that any discussion about "non-majority-conforming" persons is moderated or censored by the existing majority to the disadvantage of the minority.
  
  considering they later conclude that progressive speech is allowed you must be right. I was thrown off because in real life the "majority-conforming" opinion is "I do not care what is in your pants".
  
  Edit: it's also not reflective of my time in hacker spaces at all but OP has since confirmed it's not actually about hacking spaces but just tech in general
Nothing Drew DeVault writes is worth reading, and this is no exception.
- Mind explaining for the uninitiated?
  
  I keep seeing people say this but I haven't seen any problems with anything I've read him say.

42 comments