Raspberry Pi - Introducing: Raspberry Pi 5
Announcing Raspberry Pi 5, coming in late October: over 2x faster than Raspberry Pi 4, featuring silicon designed in-house at Raspberry Pi.
In a store nowhere near you. And not on the interwebs either.
Oh come now, it's the principle of the thing.
But indeed I doubt I'll be able to buy one for a long time.
I'm pretty glad I got myself a Pi 4 for the normal price when it was relatively fresh on the market. I'm tempted to try and get a Pi 5 to replace it and use the Pi 4 for something else at some point. I'm not sure what that might be though, and I feel like the expected scarcity is what even makes me consider it at all. I use my Pi 4 for Kodi on my trusty dumb TV and have recently put my old 3B+ to use for my 3D printer. I'm now left with no spare Pi for whatever might arise.
I have pre-ordered one for delivery in October. If you look at https://rpilocator.com/ you will find various models in stock at the official price. The Raspberry Pi clearly isn't the tool for you
Oh it certainly is.
The Pi foundation screwed over its original customer base by diverting practically ALL available inventory to business customers. Good riddance.
Remember when they said the Rpi3 had 1Gbps speeds. That's when they started to lose me. Pine64 has had a far better competing board going back to the Rpi3, and they don't use scummy marketing practices like the Pi Foundation.
Why business would buy raspberries? I am out of the loop.
There are good business use cases for Pi's, you can search online to learn more if you want.
That's not the issue. The Raspberry Pi Foundation stopped supplying retail resellers and shipped 99% of ALL of their inventory to business customers for the past several years. Which is why you can't find consistent stock, and why scalpers are mysteriously the only ones able to have reliable inventory.
It's not a secret, you can look up any number of news stories covering it. Originally they could blame the chip shortage, but long after that's over, they're still diverting almost everything they manufacture to business channels, and screwing over the hobbyists who built their brand.
Screw them. I'm not supporting them with my money ever again, and I have double digit amounts going back to the RPi2.
So, they’re really easy to work with and relatively affordable, so great for prototyping, and acceptable for production if a company wants to get stuff out the door without getting a proper custom built solution that would be better in the long run.
When spin (electric scooter app rental company) pulled out of Seattle, they didn’t pick up a lot of the scooters there. People started pulling them apart when it was deemed they were legally abandoned, and it turned out they were all running on raspberry pi’s as their brains.
Ultimately it’s save money on the development side since it allows companies to use less experienced or specialized employees. It’s obviously expensive in the long term since a custom built system that only does what you need it to would cost less
For example:
There are others. Plenty of small/medium businesses just don't have the resources to develop small computers and the matching software stack. In that regards, the RPi is an appealing choice.
I guess because it's a cheap way to do embedded computing? Idk.
Great, more unobtainium
Have they been difficult to get? I've always been vaguely interested but never actually looked into getting one.
Go to https://rpilocator.com/ and filter by your "region" and check for yourself. Most models seems to be available. The Rapsberry Pi 5 is available for pre-order from a number of suppliers.
I mean uou can get 4's at retail prices pretty easy right now.
Even the Pi has lost its headphone jack...
I generally hate the "just get dongles lol" argument but... maybe it's not a huge loss in this one specific case. I've had four models over 3 generations (B, 2-something and 3) and the audio jack always kinda... sucked.
To be fair, the pi's have always been famous for low quality sound cards, so there's plenty of hats that can add the functionality.
It's a shame that even the Pi Foundation is cutting corners. Cutting corners and removing features all while not even coming close to their target $35 price. Almost double for the base model. This doesn't feel like it fits the spirit of the original Pi Foundation goals at all.
Very cool they've added an interface to connect a peripheral that can have one though.
While I love Raspberry Pis and have a few older ones, it's a shame that the latest ones were very hard to come by and far exceeded the $35 price point.
I was looking to upgrade to a Pi 4 a while back but prices were outrageous or it was sold out completely. I eventually discovered tiny form factor PCs.
I bought some used Lenovo Tiny ThinkCentres (which are about 10x more powerful than a Pi 4), off eBay for ~ $70. I upgraded the Ram and SSDs and they are quite capable, low power units!
So to anyone looking for a low power computer to run Linux, consider buying used off eBay. You can get some pretty good deals on used hardware that's more capable.
Is it something you could run an arcade emulator from? Thinking of building my kids a tiny arcade.
That would be more than capable. Retro emulation can run on very low end hardware.
But here's an ebay listing for same model that I bought earlier. It doesn't include an SSD but you can buy M.2 SSDs for very cheap which I also did. Plus they're much faster and more reliable than micro SD cards.
It's very easy to open the machine up which I liked.
RAM upgrades are cheap too but 8GB is a lot for most cases.
A lot of corporate environments use these so when they upgrade you can find them used for dirt cheap, if you don't mind some possible cosmetic defects. Mine are just stacked on a shelf and I just use them as servers for docker and whatnot.
A friend of my dad's old PC recently shit the bed and recommended such a ThinkCenter purely by specs and price point. I did some remote setup last night and I got the impression that it was pretty snappy running Windows 10. Such a tiny computer is definitely on my list for the future.
If you need something with power sure! RasPi has a huge community that supports it, that's what sets it apart.
Can't wait for this to be impossible to buy from anyone but scalpers.
https://rpilocator.com/ shows the Pi situation has been solved for a while.
Sort of. I still haven’t been able to snag the top of the line CM4 (WiFi, 8gig ram, 32 gig emmc). I’ve seen a handful of CM4s with different configs that I don’t want. But for the 4B, yeah they can be bought now.
Edit: haven’t been able to snag one in my region*
Not really. Higher end models are regularly sold out. In stock Pis are sold at an insane premium.
We’d like to thank you: we’re going to ringfence all of the Raspberry Pi 5s we sell until at least the end of the year for single-unit sales to individuals, so you get the first bite of the cherry.
I want to be excited about this, but I just don’t believe I’ll actually be able to get one for retail price. For much of the RP4 lifecycle they prioritized corporate sales, and regular consumers were out of luck. I don’t have a lot of faith in them right now.
we’re going to ringfence all of the Raspberry Pi 5s we sell until at least the end of the year for single-unit sales to individuals, so you get the first bite of the cherry.
To keep alive the community that maintains the packages that businesses use? /s
There are a few things you won't forget and the last years were one of those events. Thankfully the competition made leaps forward regarding software support.
Do you remember FTDI-gate 1 & 2 (approx. 1 decade ago)? I do and FTDI never made it back onto my BOM and probably never will again, at least until SiliconLabs, WCH, and Holtek screw it up.
They’re probably doing that for first batch bug fixes.
It's gotten to the point with Windows 11 killing so many thin clients for businesses with TPM that you can typically find used ones for nearly as much as a Pi. Unless you need the size and efficiency I just struggle to find reason to buy another Pi if I need to selfhost something.
Pis are really cool but they really have become more corporate focused and it shows.
What should I look for in a thin client if I want to prioritize low power consumption?
Realistically probably not getting one for less than $160CAD.
At that point, might as well just buy a used Dell optiplex or something. These boards are absurdly priced, and you'll never get it for MSRP.
Even with the added power consumption of the Dell you'll pull out ahead lol
I remember when the Raspberry Pi was the amazing $15 computer. Times have changed.
Used Lenovo Thinkcentres are also a good option.
Love the PCIe interface upgrade. Hope they expand on it even more in the future.
For the small price of 250 scalper dollars you will be able to buy it
There's a lot of people in this discussion taking about how raspberry Pi and the pi foundation isn't worth your money, whether on principle, or just dollars per unit of compute.
I get it, but I have a question. Is there a competing SBC that has official PoE support? I know there's half baked ways to sort that out separate from the device, but I have a few edge cases where the last viable option was the pi 3B+. The official pi 4 case is horrendous for airflow, and third party cases usually either assume you want no protection (and all the airflow) or you want to handle thermals by contact pads passively (making it difficult or impossible to use the PoE hat), or are just as bad as the stock case for airflow, but they have enough room inside to add a hat, in which case, why go third party when the official case is equally terrible?
The pi 3 had a PoE hat, and a case you could take the top off and get decent airflow. Too bad the fans in the first gen PoE hat are unicorns in terms of power draw, with no way to adjust the power curve for the fan connector to suit a different fan, and since they're unicorns, you can't find them for purchase, and if you find something remarkably similar, they're still slightly different enough that they don't work (I've tried). So the fans burn out and IDK, good fucking luck I guess. Buy a new PoE hat?
Then there was the gen 2 PoE+ hat which released alongside the pi 4, which supposedly works with the 3 as well, which I haven't tried yet, but I'm planning to.
In every case, I have done network monitoring and service nodes that aren't exactly local to a power receptacle and they need PoE. The pi 4 eliminated itself because of the garbage case design of the official case and the lack of thought by those doing the third party cases... so I'm looking at the 5 like, finally, they got it right.
Now everyone is talking shit about the pi foundation, which I can completely understand, but for the application I need these for (and my pi 3's have been in service for like ~5 years and probably need to be refreshed), what other option do I have? What's decent with a good case and PoE input? PoE or PoE+ doesn't matter, I just need to be able to package it up into a relatively small footprint for the application.
Anyone have any suggestions? I'm all ears. I've googled till I'm blue in the face and I can't even find an SBC that has an option for PoE, I never got to looking into whether it has a decent case or if it will run my software...
Priced at $60 for the 4GB variant, and $80 for its 8GB sibling (plus your local taxes), virtually every aspect of the platform has been upgraded, delivering a no-compromises user experience.
Ehhhhhh, that's pushing it. Didn't the v4 and v3 cost in the $30-$40 range?
Yeah, they didn't even try to come close to the $35 price point. That was always RPi's big selling point. I know COVID screwed that up but I was hoping it was a temporary thing, instead it seems they've used it as an excuse to raise prices permanently. Really stifles any excitement I had for the Pi 5 as RPi's biggest advantage over the competition has traditionally been their low entry price. The base model is almost double the $35 point and we all know it's getting scalped. Good luck getting a Pi 5 for a reasonable price.
One thing to notice, there are jumpers on the PCB for 8, 4, 2, and 1GB on the Pi 5. They're selling hte 8 and 4 variant now. I'm guessing a 2 or 1GB model will hit the $35 price point.
If you could fine one, then maybe
Will it handle all features of Plex? Like streaming high def and using all plexamp features?
4k decoding still drops frames, hardware is capable but drivers are not right now
I think it was a mistake to remove hardware video encoding. Even the hw encoder for H264 1080p 30fps was better than no encoder. Apparently they think sw encoding can replace it..yeah.. the cpu is more powerful, but not that much more. I think intels N100 processors will be more competitive for applications involving video/webcam
For all of us bitter people who couldn't get an RPi 3 let alone 4 for less than a fortune during the recent dark times...
We’d like to thank you: we’re going to ringfence all of the Raspberry Pi 5s we sell until at least the end of the year for single-unit sales to individuals, so you get the first bite of the cherry.
So I will probably preorder one because why not.
Someone needs to test and find the bugs so that the corporate users get a good experience next year.
While there are now X86 SBC / Mini Computers that aren't far off the Pi in price, the real benefits of the Pi aren't just the fact that it offers a certain amount of compute for a certain price.
If all you need is a home server or a Linux box, then sure get an X86 SBC, but the Pi isn't irrelevant, not by a long shot! Congratulations on releasing yet another sweet spot product, I'll be picking one up as soon as I think of a use for one!
I told myself id give up all hope if there was no m.2 slot . Guess I'm going on a diet and never eating Pi again!
They announced the M.2 HAT in the linked article...
Really not interested in a hat, should be on the bottom like all modern sbcs
There is Rock Pi and other SoC's that have that. That H3/H3+ looks like a good option for a low power server for self hosting.
I kind of moved on to other devices or older models, depending on what is needed. If you just need a low power computer that can run Linux for simple tasks and projects, there's now lots of alternatives. So far I've tried a Banana Pi BPI-M5 and a Le Potato and they're both promising.
There's a few instances where an original Raspberry Pi is still needed. For example, it's super easy to install Home Assistant on a Raspberry Pi while not really supported on other experimental boards. Same with GPIO tinkering with some hit and miss implementation on alternative boards.
The only negative thing that I've began not to like about the Raspberry Pi was/is the power management and consumption on the version 4. The fact that I had to use a "dumb" USB-C charger and that everyone on forums and in comments were always "screaming" that you needed a beefier or more powerful power supply kind of killed the enthusiasm for me. Like, I can charge my laptop using a power bank and PD, while the Raspberry Pi 4 complains that it doesn't get enough power from the same bank. I'm sure they fixed their power issues and PD negotiation in the version 5 but apparently, it will also necessitate a pretty "good" power supply because it can pump up to 25 watts. Personally I don't need that much power for most of my projects and it's even annoying because it significantly reduced/reduces the number of ways that I can power the board.
Still, I'll certainly try it if I can get my hands on one. They are very nice devices and their popularity makes them very standard and compatible. But I'm not in any rush because I've since tried alternatives and some will also do just fine too, or even better.
I loved Pi’s, but I hate the micro hdmi connectors
OpenGL 3.1 and Vulkan 1.2 in 2023? It's so terrible!
It's the lack of hardware AV1 that concerns me, as well as droppong h.264. Raw CPU means it'll still handle the latter, but since streaming will be moving to AV1 it's kind of questionable whether this will be a reasonable media center.
Are they still playing apologetics for the cops? Because if so, no thanks.
Well -- they never really backed down on what they did. Far as we know the out-and-proud espionage cop is still in their payroll, and the only response they ever gave to the story was a generalised 'We think the entire thing is being astroturfed and that no one reasonable is ACTUALLY against us hiring this guy who bragged about all the espionage he did' back in the day.
They never said anything about it since. So it's fair to assume they still believe in what they did.
They should stop supporting cops!
I'm afraid to ask but... how are they supporting cops?
"we notice everyone is having trouble getting our previous model due to scalpers, so we released a new version at double the price!"
/s
I wonder if the will make a Pi 500 the all in one form factor is so convenient when traveling
Am I correct in saying this Pi5 will be the best chance at a very performant desktop PC? That seems very much where they were headed with all these designs.
AFAIK that's one of the goals of the ARM (and maybe eventually RISC-V) architecture. It's doing well on mobile and the low consumption is needed for a future that will require less energy. Or at least, do more with less. Having ARM desktops would also merge the mobile and the desktop environments.
Apple has moved to this architecture, and software wise, Linux is very compatible too. Even Microsoft knows and is trying (clumsily) to move to ARM.
The Pi5 will indeed open new possibilities on that front.
For performance you probably want something like a Orange Pi 5, in most workloads its significantly faster and uses less power doing so. But is also 20$ more expensive and probably doesn't have the community support around it.
Cool, I'll check it out, thanks!
Finally, a pi good for 4K video! (Apparently Raspberry Pi 4 could as well, but I am assuming this is an improvement. I still have a couple of Raspberry Pi 3's.)
You won't notice a difference in h265 4k video as each has a decoder, but Youtube performance would definitely be improved. My Rpi4 struggles with 4k60p youtube videos because it lacks a VP9 decoder.
I don’t know about lately, but 4k on Pi 4 was always janky.
I had an instant flashback when I saw your icon, I can still here his voice. Haven't thought about stronghold in a long time.
Does anyone know if the R5 will fit in the Raspberry Pi 400 keyboard case?
Even Rpi4 doesn't fit in the rpi400 keyboard case. They are different products
Oh cool, been waiting for this announcement. Nice.
🎶 I know what I’m gonna buy soon 🎶
ACAB means ACAB, come on
We will see if this one is actually available, I mean I would definitely like one but not for 100€+ because scalpers got theie hands on the entire supply!
Great! Now we just need an announcement about the successor to the RP2040...
I wonder if they can finally run on fully open source firmware.
Broadcom is the main problem
Our newer, faster CPU is complemented by a newer, faster GPU: Broadcom’s VideoCore VII, developed here in Cambridge, with fully open source Mesa drivers from our friends at Igalia.
Idk about fully but the above is a good change imo
Goddamn it, just after I bought a Beelink mini PC a couple weeks ago.
A mini PC is the way to go if you want to self host a media server such as Jellyfin. You have to do a little research, but you can find mini PCs with Intel chips that have Quick Sync for transcoding for around $100 on Amazon.
Eh that x86 cpu will still be faster than pi5
These things are great for !boinc@sopuli.xyz often time leagues more efficient per watt in terms of computation than regular PCs. I have a couple of 'em working on cancer research and computing to develop an open-source patent-free covid antiviral. You don't need a PhD to make a difference, all you need is a processor :)
If they were more efficient per watt for scientific computing, you'd hear about researchers building HPC clusters from them.
If they were more efficient per watt for scientific computing, you’d hear about researchers building HPC clusters from them.
Efficiency per watt is not the same as total cost of ownership. Pis are expensive for the amount of compute you get from them in total, but the compute itself is efficient per watt. You would need at least a dozen Pis to rival the latest CPU processors in terms of total output, a dozen Pis is more expensive to buy than a single CPU.
*more efficient than regular PCs. Not more efficient than supercomputers lol
I did a quick Google.
https://web.eece.maine.edu/~vweaver/group/green_machines.html
Is the best actual test data I can find. It uses a physical power meter, so it's full system (not TDP or self reporting power consumption).
And it's a few years out of date.
Seems like Apple silicon is the winner (and will probably continue to be).
The Xeon that beats the rpi4 for GFLOPS/watt is an e5v3, which was launched in 2013 and EOL in 2021.
So there will absolutely be some new Xeon CPUs that will perform better.
However, for a $50 device, it's probably the best GFLOPS/watt/$ from what little empirical data I can find
This comment section ⚰️
reminder that rpi is pro cop: https://nitter.net/molly0xFFF/status/1601037628450959360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Look, I'm already sold.
That's probably the smallest problem here