I never understood this logic
I never understood this logic
187 comments
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rehabilitation instead of prison..
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How about if I’m not bothering anybody then don’t even arrest me?
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Edit:
How about if I’m not bothering anybody then don’t even arrest me?
I misunderstood that comment above. My bad.
What do you mean? People get arrested for possession of weed for example that they plan to consume by themselves, not bothering anybody. Then they get locked up. You rather lock them away, than try to rehabilitate them? This applies to so many cases. Of course there are cases where the verdict says prison but at least try to keep people out of prison. But wait the prison system is a corporation trying to make money.
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Just gonna leave this PDF of Angela Davis' Are Prisons Obsolete? here.
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And not only is the first part necessarily the worst, but once you’re in the system they make it hard to get back out by throwing all sorts of arbitrary requirements on you to fulfill, with little to no flexibility. 10-week class that occurs right in the middle of your work-day? Fuck you. It all serves to essentially keep you in the system as it keeps on fucking with your life. Not to mention prison/jail, which brands you with a permanent scarlet letter that bars you from even working at many jobs even after you’ve gotten out.
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Same thing with having one of those breathalyzer things on your car. You have to pay to have it installed, pay a monthly fee in addition to all the other shit you've already paid for. And then you can only go a very few certain places. Makes it incredibly difficult to recover from that. It's not to punish you or keep you off the road after a DUI, it's so they can extract more money from you
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And then they charge you hundreds to thousands of dollars for those classes so that once you do find a job, they just garnish your wages.
They charge you for drug tests and "renting" ankle monitors, and if you don't pay they just throw you back in jail. Which sometimes has its own fees. Even public defenders can have fees depending on your state/county, and they will threaten to take you to small claims court over the $50 they billed you without telling you. For counsel that literally exists to represent poor people. Ask me how I know.
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The logic is deterrence.
I mean it's stupid, but that's what the supporters think.
The thing they are missing is that no one commits a crime thinking they will get caught. So ever increasing the deterrence doesn't help.
Drugs is a public health issue, no really criminal. Prohibition doesn't work with things done at scales like drugs and alcohol. You're just feeding the criminal gangs.
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It's not deterrence, that's not the point. Deterrence does not work.
It's about sending people to prison so they can do cheap labor. It's also about racism because it's disproportionately targeted towards minorities. It absolutely makes sense in that light.
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The logic is subjugation. These laws are applied largely to a specific group of people, and even if they don't spend life in prison, their ability to build a life for themselves afterwards is neutered, and they lost the right to vote.
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The logic is it also ruins other peoples lives. No one exists in society in a nut shell or as an island. If your choice to use drugs would expose, entice, or otherwise encourage a person to use drugs then it is reasonable in my opinion for the state to protect people from it.
That being said clearly our approach isn't working. There shouldn't be laissez-faire drug use all over but there shouldn't be life in prison immediately consequences either.
The most succesful drug rehabilitation programs are mandatory rehab facilities that are a choice alternate to going to jail for an equal amount of time.
Also housing first models are incredibly effective. But... the entire western world uses housing as an investment vehicle and commodity so it is diametrically opposed to housing first initiatives. If the average citizen is paying 50% of their income for housing and then "junkies" get given free housing the political party that implemented it would be booted so fast.
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That's because it's not logic - it's propaganda. The war on drugs was always built on a solid bedrock of oppressing minorities, black people in particular.
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What? White people like smoking weed? Well its probably ok then. What? White people enjoy opioids? Oh no, it's a crisis we better get people the help they need. Don't worry big pharma drug dealers, you can keep your fortune, just say sorry.
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It's perfectly circular, like this man's dome.
Don't forget that drug laws are often racist e.g. cocaine possession carries a lesser punishment than crack, cannabis is a schedule 1 substance, etc. This goes some way to explaining the legal rationale.
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The rest can be found on the Nixon tapes. :)
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How is this racist? I don't doubt that you're right but I'm not understanding what makes that racist. Are black people significantly more likely to have crack than cocaine or something? At first glance it seems logical to me that cocaine has less of a punishment than crack, but that's based off of a somewhat limited understanding of the effects of the two drugs.
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Crack and cocaine are the same drug! From https://americanaddictioncenters.org/cocaine-treatment/differences-with-crack: "Pharmacologically, cocaine and crack are the same substance."
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The racist associations between crack and black people are rumored to actually be an intentional thing. The US government says the allegations have no merit, but the CIA has been accused of funneling large amounts of crack cocaine into the black neighborhoods of LA. Here's one article about it on a .gov but you can find many other sources on google: THE CIA-CONTRA-CRACK COCAINE CONTROVERSY Relevant quote from the original source accusing them:
For the better part of a decade, a San Francisco Bay Area drug ring sold tons of cocaine to the Crips and Bloods street gangs of Los Angeles and funneled millions in drug profits to a Latin American guerrilla army run by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, a Mercury News investigation has found.
This drug network opened the first pipeline between Colombia's cocaine cartels and the black neighborhoods of Los Angeles, a city now known as the "crack" capital of the world. The cocaine that flooded in helped spark a crack explosion in urban America . . . and provided the cash and connections needed for L.A.'s gangs to buy automatic weapons.
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Makes more sense when you consider that the "justice" system profits greatly from the war on drugs.
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Gotta love private jails
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13th amendment (which means we can guillotine it right away) for the plantation win boys!
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Regan's administration started the war on drugs. Convicting drugs users of a criminal crime has the effect of taking the right to vote away from people who tended not to vote for the Republican party and allowed them to be legally used as slave labour. At least one member of that administration has explicitly stated that this was a strategic decision to win elections.
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I think it was John Erlichman who served under Nixon who said that. Whether that's true is actually disputed though: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_drugs#20th_century
I agree that both Nixon's and Reagan's policies on drugs were pretty harmful though.
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*Reagan. Donald Regan was Ronald Reagan's chief of staff for a couple of years.
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I'm from the city this cop was from and if I remember correctly he was shot in the head and survived but obviously not the same. Maybe he died I don't really remember.
I'm not a fan of the police but on a human level some awful stuff happened to this guy.
Edit: looked it up because I was curious he underwent brain surgery and survived.
Fuck the police as a whole tho
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I used to have that same belief but watching "good" cops cover for bad ones made me realize they're all scummy.
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I agree even this guy but life has nuance and I felt this was info that is pertinent to the meme.
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There is always some nuance, but in general most morally upstanding people drop out of training or are pushed out of the force in some way.
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If only it was like in Portugal…
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Why what you got over there?
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Not Portuguese myself but my understanding is that since 2001 most drugs are decriminalised for possession (the rule is like 10 days’ worth or something) but they can still confiscate your drugs and levy fines in rare cases. These offences carry no criminal record and can never carry a sentence of incarceration. Basically kinda illegal but not really.
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Just a reminder that cops exist simply to uphold the status quo! Our first police squads were created to hunt down escaped slaves! Fuck - and I really mean this - the police.
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Also, ACAB. Yes even your friendly neighborhood school pig. ALL COPS
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Yeah just generalize and dehumanify the people that pay attention that people don't break the law, steal, murder and destroy stuff.
You know they are human too? Also would you generalize other large groups of people like this? Without police there would be anarchy and the most violent criminal gangs would make the rules.
You sound like a very annoying person that I would not want to be around.
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Cops do not, never have and never will "protect and serve" a regular person. They protect and serve the elite.
There is a good reason we say ACAB, fuck the police and call them class traitors
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They don't protect people at all, they protect capital
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ACAB
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all cats are biutifull
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Taps the sign that says "The Cruelty Is The Point"
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"They'll ruin your life cause I'll ruin your life!"
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It didn't say what mechanism would be used for the drugs to ruin your life. Prison works just as well as turning tricks for smack as far as life ruining goes.
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I'm all for caging money making dealers that kill when they are threatened with prison. I've seen too many people get killed because some cunt that already has enough money is scared to get caught.
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If only those were the people that US cops actually arrested.
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I know. It's so sad. Know gang members I figure out they call the cops on their enemies alto get their enemies pissed at the police until the shoot out and usually their victim dies and the cops like gets fucked up.
They use the cops to get away with murder... just like rich people and companies do.
Trap jaw affiliates and the AX graffiti crew do it in New Hampshire/Boston/RI/CT/NYC/Epping/Manchester
They got two people I know killed and even the cops don't want to hear it.
That's why I have this username.
I'm starting to think a lot of the 2020 black deaths were staged to help Trump, who is probably controlled/in the mob. (Roger stone/oath keepers/bloods)
Giuliani "got rid of crime" in NYC... i think he was either a part of masking the organized crime or he got owned for fighting it and now they control him.
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What's the threshold of income that would meet your criteria? Do you normally base jail time off of someone's income, legally or illegally?
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Enough to rent and live in a studio apartment. (If they are single)
Im mainly talking about anyone willing to murder innocent people to scare off people that figured out their drug/burglary/pimp game.
I think drugs and prostitution should be legalized.
I've known too many criminals that are complete tyrants and fascists. They are heartless and will take from anyone. They are just as worthless as materialistic rich people.
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Conspiracy to enslave the poor.
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Hey what are you some kind of Russian bo-
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Checks Constitution
(Yes this is cringe but I want it that way)
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But the rich also take drugs.
Except they don't get caught.
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Everyone breaks the law, and it is selectively enforced against the poor. System working as intended. System working as intended.
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when the rich get caught for drug use they go to rehab
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Well someone somewhere still believes that prison is about rehabilation and not punishment
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A society with no concept of redeemeption will never get far
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also drug addiction is arguably something that the word treatment would be more applicable for
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It's the same logic as when Republicans claim Government doesn't work....
It's not ignorance or stupidity, it's a mission statement.. Republicans are trying to make Government not work and Cops are actively trying to fuck you over
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Government is bad and we should have less of it in our faces. To achieve this goal, let's make the consumption of certain popular drugs illegal, and while we're at it make laws restricting what women, trans, gay, etc people can do. This should reduce the government's involvement in our day-to-day lives.
I just don't understand it. Less government = good (according to practically every republican I've met), so lets vote for more laws which restrict people and give the government more power.
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self fulfilling prophecy
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I believe the legal repercussions are part of that "can ruin your life", not just the addiction and/or health concerns.
Though that still makes it an entirely artificial consequence that does not need to and should not exist.
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I am once again asking everyone to read Alex Vitale's End of Policing
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Logic is prison slave labor=$$$
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You don't go to jail (if there isn't evidence of you selling it) in my country. Because it's not a penal crime, but an administrative one.
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JUSTICE
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Contribute or perish!
Drug users are arrested because they are not contributing and there is no way person could just be a person and not a nice productive bee -
Which highlights that making drug use illegal is far more about "You using drugs is unpleasant Tobe near, so I'm going to send you to jail" than anything else.
Making drug sales illegal unless through mandated sources make a lot of sense because of the harm it can bring.
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You contribute far below what is required to maintain society.
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Failure to enforce drug prohibition resulted in Qing China having a nationwide addiction epidemic for British opium, resulting in the opium wars, the country's bankruptcy, partial European colonization as well as the so-called "century of humiliation". The effects of this addiction epidemic are still being felt nowadays, e.g. in widespread racism towards Asian people as well as the current opioid epidemic where Chinese-made fentanyl is exported worldwide with the unofficial sanction of the Chinese government.
This is the reason why drug prohibition is a thing, and why many Asian countries have death sentences even for simple possession of narcotics.
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This is such a bastardization of history. Shame on you for spreading this nonsense.
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Yeah... Racism has nothing to do with the historical opium epidemic in China. Racists just racist. Anyone different from them too, like LGBTQ, and intellectuals.
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There are racists everywhere that's true, but people who are naturally racist are rare because racism is something that is taught. The lack of a strong voice for minority races is what allows racists in power to normalize their discrimination against them, eventually making it a systemic and widespread phenomenon.
You argue that the opium epidemic has absolutely zero effect on racism towards Chinese people. However I say that the opium epidemic directly started a chain of events that led to the downfall of the Chinese government, which enabled racist people to teach their racism to the government and the rest of society without fear of repercussions, therefore enabling widespread and systemic racism against Asians.
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There is no way you just compared modern drugs and war on drugs on the fucking Qing China.
Especially when there are MODERN examples of drug decriminalisation that work, like Portugal or Switzerland.
You are either completely ignorant or stupid to ignore it and use a fucking ancient example instead
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Why not? The opium wars are a dark spot in Chinese history and the fascist CCP government is hell bent on "revenge" against the west for that. That's why the CCP is exporting fentanyl to the west via shell companies and causing the modern opioid epidemic. I would like to see how decriminalization can deal with a targeted attack like that.
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Yeah, it's not about empathy for you at all
You're a cog in the machine and they're protecting the machine, not you.
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This approach is 100 years after prohibition. Hopefully it can overcome the institutional momentum of current drug laws and get implemented in more places.
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Faulty premises lead to faulty conclusions.
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You know, that sounds like a convenient bullshit story by statists and other mobster to justify their never ending violence. Also, Britain weaponizing drugs, big cringe. You guys deserve thermonuclear armageddon so bad.
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The fact that people who can produce brain farts like you are allowed to vote, should tell everyone why pure democracy cant work.
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You do know it's not police who make these laws, right? It's the politicians that get elected by the people who create these laws.
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Police unions and private prison system lobbyists have entered the chat
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They chose to make their career of enthusiastically enforcing these laws with extreme violence. They chose this. Fuck the police.
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I feel like this attitude and generalized hatred towards every person working as police will make it worse because no one will want to do that job anymore. It has already happend in the USA. This activism against police in general swaps to other countries via internet culture and European countries as well struggle to get anyone work as police. This will make it necessary to lower standards and additionally, more police will be on edge since there aren't enough people.
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Sure, but the world is too grey to always follow laws exactly as written. If someone is sitting on a beach smoking some weed, they are not going to damage society or others by doing so. Arresting them for drugs that only harm themselves, costs society money for the arrest and provide no benefit to anyone.
Unless our laws are perfect (likely impossible) there will always need to be some leeway for interpretation of the spirit of the law. Cops should not blindly follow laws but understand their intent to prevent harm towards others.
Also, laws are slow to change and don't often stay up to date with societal changes.
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It's supposed to be rehabilitation, but also it's to stop you from ruining other people's lives
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What other people have their lives ruined when I take a drug?
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The family you ran over while you were drunk
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You only get life-ruining time for distribution. Distribution ruins other people's lives, often minors and people who have it rough in life.
All Dealers Are Bastards
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Mandatory minimums can make even minor possession carry a long sentence. It's not just dealers.
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You say that as if an couple years in prison doesn't have permanent effects.
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It is true that some drugs are very dangerous and can ruin people's lives. One of the most dangerous ones is alcohol, which is legal. One of the least dangerous ones is cannabis, which is still illegal in most places and at a federal level in the USA.
So maybe (just maybe) this is not about protecting people at all and never was?
Are all merchants who sell alcohol bastards?
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The logic, whether or not you agree with it, is that drugs in general are hazardous and can kill or disable you, and they contribute to a black market and all the related crimes of drug trafficking and addiction. So punishments aren’t for drug use but for possession and trafficking.
Edit: to all the downvoters, I’m not advocating for draconian drug laws, I’m just answering OP’s question on why cops and lawmakers have such a policy and the logic behind it.
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drugs in general are hazardous
Not true in general, and certainly not true in specific cases. There are over 16,000 drugs used by humans, and very few of them are hazardous at the correct dose. Are they hazardous at incorrect dosage? Some are, some are not, but then almost anything, water included, will kill you at inappropriate dosage. Many illegal recreational drugs such as LSD, psilocybin and DMT have no known lethal dose.
they contribute to a black market and all the related crimes of drug trafficking
That's simply a function of them being illegal. If they were not illegal, they would not "contribute to a black market and all the related crimes of drug trafficking".
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It's called making an example out of someone.
Edit: Lots of people not understanding how that's exactly what cops and shitheads in power think about sending people on drugs to jail. That's scary.
They are more than happy to send your ass to jail for decades because of minor charges that don't hurt anyone but yourself. You're just a number to these assholes. They will make an example out of you if they can.
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By sending them to
crime school.. I mean jail/prison. -
187 comments