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/kbin meta @kbin.social
ernest @kbin.social

Is Kbin dying? I wanted to address the deleted thread and provide some insight into the current situation.

/kbin is certainly not dying, as @fr0g pointed out, work on new features and bug fixes is ongoing. However, it may give the impression that it is, and for that, I take full responsibility and owe you an explanation.

Several factors have contributed to this situation. The first and most significant reason is my family issues, which I must prioritize. I'm doing my best to stabilize the situation as quickly as possible, but not everything is within my control. The second reason is unfortunate financial matters. When Kbin suddenly gained popularity, the project's maintenance costs far exceeded my initial estimates. While community support still allows for the cluster's maintenance, I also need to take care of my own livelihood and commitments. Another reason involves spam campaigns and other issues that I need to address behind the scenes. I don't want to go into specifics right now, but there will come a time when I can share more. My top priority is to resolve all these matters so that I can return to working on Kbin full-time.

I spend every spare moment writing code and reviewing code? from other contributors. It's a lot of work that goes into development, and I try to verify every accepted pull request and make improvements when I can. It also takes up a lot of time, more than it may seem. I have also delegated some responsibilities and permissions to the Kbin core team (https://codeberg.org/org/Kbin/teams), which has allowed the project to continue to grow, and I am immensely grateful for that. However, I still want to maintain overall control, although over time, we will work on better processes to make it less dependent on me.

I paused updates on kbin.social some time ago until the release of the first version. Hence, the impression that nothing is happening. Kbin is, in fact, developing so rapidly that I wouldn't be able to respond to potential issues quickly enough, adding to the stress.

I've given myself a deadline to resolve all my issues and release the first official version by the end of September. If I can't meet the deadline, I will step down from leading the project and transfer full rights over the repository and instance to the contributors. Of course, this includes the budget I mentioned earlier, earmarked for instance maintenance.

I feel truly awful about this. I can't even keep up with threads on Matrix Spaces, notifications here, etc. Right now, the only way to contact me is through the contact form. However, I want to catch up on everything as soon as possible and stabilize the situation. It's crucial to me, but at the moment, I can't put it above family matters. I apologize for letting you down, and I appreciate your words of support. If it weren't for such an amazing community, I might have given up a long time ago.

60 comments

  • If I can't meet the deadline, I will step down from leading the project and transfer full rights over the repository and instance to the contributors.

    I respect you entirely but this is a bit dramatic. Not all projects can be on time due to complications and no one is asking you to step down. Please just do what is necessary - you're doing fantastic!

    Looking forward to the first version!

    • Yeah, there is no need for "final solution" style accountability here. This was a project that a single developer was working on when the stars just happened to align and drive a lot of attention to it at once. A commercially oriented website in the same situation would struggle to deal with it and be forced to take out loans in order to expand staffing and infrastructure capacity.

      The phrasing of Ernest's initial post suggests that there is at least one exploitable vulnerability that spammers are taking advantage of and can't be openly discussed until the gates are closed. I understand the frustration and optics problem that comes with "easy and important fixes" sliding on the schedule (i.e. the topic of the other thread), but look at it this way:

      • Ernest is too slammed with work to be consciously creating more work for himself.
      • He needs the spam and bot problem to go away so ASAP so that it stops taking time away from him. This includes the missing moderation tools, spam/bot campaigns that are operating at a scale that those additional tools would have difficulty addressing regardless, and the issues he can't talk about yet that were hinted at above.
      • If he is waiting to push out a fix to problems that would greatly reduce his workload, there are very good reasons for it.
      • If he is not able to push out fixes that reduce his workload, it stands to reason that fixes unrelated to them are also sliding.

    • 100%. and therein lies the beauty of open source: if someone thinks they can do a better job, then fork it and move on.

      • If someone thinks they can do a better job they can go fork themselves!

      • Everybody says that, but that's not really practical. It would be much better to merge those features into the main project, than to fork it and get stuck maintaining a separate codebase in perpetuity.

        Now I will say that if someone thinks they can do a better job, they should sign up for the project and commit their changes to the main project, so all ernest has to do is approve it, rather than write it himself.

    • Indeed, nobody is asking you (Ernest) to step down.

  • Thank you @ernest for all you do and all you have done!

    Absolutely do not want to see you run yourself into the ground over kbin matters, your family and your health come first.

    I don't question your judgement, but I think the "step down" bit is a bit extreme, even if you fail to meet the deadline. Worst case, maybe let the community appoint a second-in-command temporarily to get some things moving along while you take a well deserved break?

    • Agreed, stepping down is a bit heavy handed. There are a lot of moving parts, it's okay to take time for your self and let others take up the reigns temporarily if you need to. I've seen quite a lot of merges on the core recently - so it's obvious things are moving in the right direction.

  • I've given myself a deadline to resolve all my issues and release the first official version by the end of September. If I can't meet the deadline, I will step down from leading the project and transfer full rights over the repository and instance to the contributors.

    Ernest, please don't be so hard on yourself. Deadlines slip, even for products formally released by companies, and this is more of a hobby frankly. I think what might help is less of a deadline and more of a roadmap - like, here are the major bullet point items we want to target for release by end of 2023, by end of Q1 2024, and sometimes those slip but then the roadmap can be revised.

    I've been updating my own kbin instance pretty regularly, every couple of weeks, and I've seen things become more stable over time (less frustrations in upgrading, more features, etc). I'm quite happy with the progress so far. This project has grown so much in such a short time, and the fact that the kbin issues matrix is much quieter than it was speaks to the growing stability of the platform.

    As far as kbin.social itself, I would agree with some other folks that you might need more volunteers on the actual instance administration and moderation front.

    And as far as spam - email, the original federated messaging platform, still has that problem! Each email provider has to handle it on their own, using increasingly sophisticated methods, and they're still not perfect and it's been decades. Yes, spam is frustrating, but due to the nature of ActivityPub we will always be in an escalating war with spam. It will never be solved, only mitigated for a time.

    Anyway, perhaps I've written too much here, but I have a ton of confidence in this project and also in you, and I hope you look back and see how much has been accomplished in a short amount of time, how much kbin.social has grown, and how the amount of other contributors indicates an overall great level of confidence in what you've created.

  • Thank you for the transparency about the situation! Taking time to resolve personal problems is not something to apologise over, we’re all thankful for the incredible work you’re doing so we can use Kbin.

  • I've been perfectly content with kbin since I joined, thanks for all you do!

    • Kbin FTW! Thank you Ernest, and the rest of the team. As a reddifugee, I feel I've landed in the right instance. And on the 'end user' side I'm committed to fostering the good growth of the magazines (m/SantaFe, m/Photobiomodulation) I've started. All of us together, we're building a better fediverse. I feel very hopeful.

    • For desktop browsers, I like it better than regular lemmy. Admittedly, I'd like to use a client with it so I look forward to an API for mobile clients, but I'm pretty happy as a desktop user.

  • Kbin seems alive and well to me. If it wasn't for this post then it would never have occurred to me it might be 'dying'.

    The growth in users has slowed but not reversed, and that's no bad thing. Initial growth was always going to come in spurts (driven more by whatever the latest drama is over at Reddit) and this lull is useful for getting our communities well-established and letting @ernest keep up the great work on the development side - all of which will ensure we're in a good place to ride the next wave of migration from Reddit when it happens!

  • Building something this large completely as a volunteer service is commendable, honestly. Most people wouldn't think of taking up something like this.

    This place is completely usable for me and bugs have become noticably less frequent. Most features I need are on here. You've done a good job, especially for so much of the work being done by a single person. I can only write a simple script of code, lol. In the future, just consider bringing in some people to help out on Kbin (especially with moderation).

    If you need to take a break, delay some updates, or just step back, do so. Your personal matters need to be resolved first, and us random internet strangers can come later. You can stick to the deadline if you'd like, but I think it's more stress you don't need at the moment. It won't kill Kbin if some features took longer to come out.

  • Ernest, we love you, man. FYI the complaints about Kbin come from a very vocal minority; most of us understand managing a project like this is difficult and do not have these gripes. We will be fine, please take care of yourself and your family first. Btw thanks for everything you have done for us.

  • Please don't feel guilty for prioritising your family and yourself, that is 100% the right thing to do.

    Also building on what others have said don't chase perfection by the end of the month, at some point you will have to draw a line and call it v1.00. It won't be, it can't be perfect ...but kbin is already great, and as you observe there is a lot of development which has already happened which isn't live here yet - I'm looking forward to when it does go live.

    And finally, just thank you. Being admin of kbin.social is already a huge responsibility, owning and managing the codebase on top of that must feel like a huge weight of responsibility at times - it is really appreciated and we love what you have created here, it is already epic.

  • I‘m using this website every day. Maybe I‘m missing something, but I don’t quite understand the urgency. Take all the time you need.

  • You've done an awesome job. And anyone complaining needs to remember that Kbin/ Fediverse is still in its infancy stages: It's going to cry, teethe, piss and shit itself when you least expect it. But with the right care (and time), one day it'll be a lot easier to manage.

  • Dude, you're being quite hard on yourself. You're not the only one who can write code, you're not the only one who can review it. It would be fine for you to step back and take a decision making role until everything else has been handled in your life.

    Don't burn out in a few months. Protect your sanity so that you can be there for the long run.

  • @ernest
    I primarily use Lemmy but I love that kbin exists, in case Lemmy's architecture doesn't work out. We need diversity in the ecosystem, and different technological solutions to the same problem. Diversity is resilience, and it's great to see the work being done.
    @fr0g

    • Same. I'm not a kbin local, but even being based in a neutral instance that blocks nothing and nobody, kbin users and content are a huge presence in my ecosystem. Kbin is an important part of the fediverse. Periods of slow growth or even genuine stasis are preferable to unsustainable long term development decisions in the name of immediate results. Better to simmer the sauce now while the pot is small than to have an enormous vat of increasingly unworkable spaghetti in a year and a half.

  • dunno, i kinda got into running an instance after reading about all the hard work you put into it. it would be hard for me to separate the ernest from the kbin ... so, dont do that?

    take your time, take care of yours. this shit will be here

  • You might reach out to https://indieweb.social/@dries. He's talked openly about some of the challenges his project has had scaling and less openly about how personally he takes it when he can't solve problems with the project/contributor community. Drupal is a very mature community that has been able to foster a lot of trust between longtime contributors. What you've accomplished with Kbin already is amazing. Give yourself time to figure out how to delegate in a way that works for you. Focus on finding the right people and process over an arbitrary date.

  • I've given myself a deadline to resolve all my issues and release the first official version by the end of September. If I can't meet the deadline, I will step down from leading the project and transfer full rights over the repository and instance to the contributors. Of course, this includes the budget I mentioned earlier, earmarked for instance maintenance.

    Silly. Your stewardship is great. Don't let unrealistic timelines get you down, especially ones that are self imposed.

  • You're doing great Ernest, don't be so hard on yourself!
    As for funding the project long term, if Patreon/Coffe/LibraPay ever stop being enough, maybe a Wikipedia-like style banner on the top of the page asking for donations could work? I think it's more than fair to remind people to help pay for the upkeep of the free project they use, and if they have a problem with it they can go fork (it) themselves!

  • Self care first, my friend. When you are okay then you can worry about others. All the weight doesn't have to be on your shoulders.

    I appreciate what you've built so far and the rest can come as it does. It's not worth running yourself ragged over. I hope things resolve well with your family issues, many thanks and no gripes here. Kbin remains awesome as-is and I'm sure it will only get even better eventually. Every improvement doesn't have to be today.

  • @ernest I think lack of communication is a problem, but it's not end of the world. Some people gone Kbin and understand potential Kbin has, so don't throw line like you step down due delays. When reddit blackout happened some people noted that "Reddit founders" only noted 2 people... when years ago there was 3 founders. One was booted and now is buried as if he never was there. I would rather have you with your life problems than someone who have no such problems... Thank you for your hard work!

  • You are crushing it, in my view, @ernest. Thank you for all you do for this community, but you can give yourself some room to breathe. We're all doing okay as long as you're okay.

  • hey @earnest, original (and multiple since my bad poster here) I just wanted to drop a note here, and wanted to thank you for your response. i couldn't see any replies to my original thread this morning, figured it was users that i had blocked trolling me through some loophole in the blocking/"not really blocking" feature, and reposted a couple times today.

    i will stop doing that now that you sent me that message, i'd sure like to see the other replies to this thread (your thread) but can't see a single comment.

    take your time, do your thing, i truly utterly and gratefuly appreciate you taking the time out to respond to this, and your efforts, preivous and ongoing are valued and i'm just glad kbin is a workign alternative to lemmy. wish you nothing but good for your family, and other ongoing commitments, and here's to the future of kbin!

  • Don't sweat it @ernest.

    @downpunxx is trolling - he just reposted the same question here. I'm guessing it's the operator of one of the spam networks you shut the door on.

    • it's not trolling or spam, it's just me being a fucking idiot. my apologies. i had two domains blocked, and in doing so, triggered a bug which kbin users sometimes run into, that being specifically not seeing comments if they have any domains blocked, i had two, i deleted the blocks on the domains, and presto, like magic i can see comments. no spam, just stupidity, mine.

  • @ernest Don't let someone with the red ass, who by the way is using a self-described beta product for free and without ads) get you down. You need to take care of yourself and your family first. We will manage. I spend more time on kbin than I do on reddit and mastodon combined. The few little glitches I have hit here and there are nothing. This is a solid product and I have a blast using it!

    If anyone says that /kbin is dying ... well I will leave this right here:

    kbin.social stats

    kbin's codeberg activity

    Kudos to you @ernest and everyone else who contributes to the project!

  • I mean I'm sure there are tonnes of improvement to be made, but I still use /kbin on my phone and it seems fine to me? I see plenty of people on fedi from kbin instances, too.

  • Hi Ernest, just a little message to tell you that we can wait. Give your family issues priority. First things first. Thanks for all the work done.

60 comments