Musk is undeniably just trying to run twitter into the ground at this point.
Musk is undeniably just trying to run twitter into the ground at this point.
Musk is undeniably just trying to run twitter into the ground at this point.
This is Musk’s “Reichstag Fire” moment for Twitter.
The rate limiting is not because of “extreme manipulation”, but because of piss-poor code that Twitter deployed as part of their change to only allow tweets to be viewed if logged in. Twitter is effectively DDoSing itself right now. But, it creates an opportunity for Musk to create a narrative.
These “temporary” limits will probably remain inevitably, as they provide another benefit to Twitter - they drive Blue subscriptions. Unfortunately, they also repel free users from using the platform entirely, and at a much higher ratio.
Twitter is going to become even more of a cesspool than it already is at an alarming rate. Crazy how many established social media platforms have decided to crumble at the exact same time.
"The DDOS is coming from INSIDE the HOUSE!"
My lord. And they can't/won't piece 1+1 together? Hanlon's razor dictates they are indeed idiots.
Elon was right, firing off many engineers didn't cause any DDoS attack from outside- as DDoS attacks are now happening from within
The self-DDoS truly the height of idiocy. It’s been a good couple of weeks watching billionaires who have never faced consequences fuck around and find out.
Oooh, spicy!
I find it especially bizarre that spez took inspiration and guidance from Musk. I can entertain the possibility of Musk intentionally driving Twitter to the ground (though he sure is taking the scenic route), but Reddit? It just seems like the rich tech bros have collectively lost their minds
Is spez rich?
I'd love a self ddos of Reddit at this point tbh
I really don’t believe at all that he would intentionally drive it to the ground. I can see him claiming that if he manages to actually kill it tho
You can't lose something you never had
I really don’t believe at all that he would intentionally drive it to the ground. I can see him claiming that if he manages to actually kill it tho
They never had their minds. They just now have enough money to make that all of our problems... This is why no one deserves billions of dollars. It makes you go megalomaniacle.
They just don't want LLMs scrapping their websites
Yo for real, what's up with all these social media sites literally shooting themselves in the foot as we speak?.
Youtube planning to antagonize adblock users and limiting video watching, Reddit killing itself with bureocracy style and now Twitter doing this shit. Hopefully shit sites like TikTok or Facebook jump on the wagon too.
For reddit at least, The money from VCs dried up. They have to monetise fast or go broke.
Elon way way way overplayed for Twitter and the company is hemorrhaging money paying the loans he took out to pay for the purchase.
Google in general is in decline. Ad sales are down as the net becomes SEO'd to death. Marketing teams just aren't willing to pay for Google ads like they used to since the roi isn't there anymore.
Twitter successfully sold itself to a private investment firm for over market value. That's the dream for tech startups and never-made-a-profit digital services.
Anyone still using Twitter is an addict or a boomer, but that's exactly the audience that Musk wanted to purchase.
Big social media companies are sometimes like lemmings- if one jumps off a cliff, others generally follow it because they did so
The tin foil part of my brain says that they're trying to destroy media ahead of the election so they can control the narrative but really I think it's just that we've reached a point where no one is pouring free money into literally any old internet nonsense and it's turned out that this 'they're selling your data and making billions!' was never actually very true.
They pushed their website as 'we're having massive growth and with enough investment we can dominate the market!' so all the idiot 'angel Investors' threw monkey into it but that can only last so long before people say 'ok you dominate the market, now what?!'
The world is starting to wise up to the fact that online advertising is nearly 100% fraudulent so they aren’t buying online ads as much.
The tin foil part of my brain says that they're trying to destroy media ahead of the election so they can control the narrative but really I think it's just that we've reached a point where no one is pouring free money into literally any old internet nonsense and it's turned out that this 'they're selling your data and making billions!' was never actually very true.
They pushed their website as 'we're having massive growth and with enough investment we can dominate the market!' so all the idiot 'angel Investors' threw monkey into it but that can only last so long before people say 'ok you dominate the market, now what?!'
There are several negatives to the limitation too. Advertisers (which are already leaving in droves) are even further discouraged from placing ads that have a much smaller chance of being seen.
Edit: spelling
Yeah, that's the extra stupid part. Not only limiting the amount of content people can see, but also the ads he needs money from.
Not just less likely to be seen, but now a greater percentage of those views will come from Twitter blue subscribers as well who might not be their intended audience.
Is there some source on advertisers leaving in droves? I've heard a couple stories on people (big accounts ands advertisers) loudly leaving but is it really a noticeable trend? I wonder if there's some publicly accessible way of knowing that.
It goes deeper than that.
This all started with the API changes. Before they were charging a fair price for the API and companies happily paid it for the convenience. Then Elon got greedy he started charging a ridiculous amount for the API so those companies decided it would be worth it to just deal with the annoyance and switch to scraping the website instead. But when you hit the website it's way less efficient than hitting the API because it's doing a bunch of mixing and ranking which is a lot more complicated and costly than serving static content, which costs a small fraction of real time algorithmic ranking. So now instead of making money off companies that want their data they're losing money on the cloud costs to serve the scrapers.
More recently, they haven't been paying their hosting bills to Google and their service was set to expire at the end of last month. What just happened at the start of this month? They added the limitations. That can't be a coincidence. Now the Google services weren't hosting the site itself, otherwise they'd probably be fully down right now, but it was hosting their trust and safety services for things like fighting spam. That could have also been hosting anti scraper services as well. Since they're so under staffed they probably couldn't swap the services in time, so instead of having anti scraping services like every other big company on the internet, they decided to cut service instead. It's just built up incompetence coming to a head.
It's crazy how many products and situations go wrong because a super rich guy is being greedy
Much like the case of Reddit, Musk might want to reflect on who actually produces all the content he's guarding so jealously, and ask himself what's likely to happen to the value of his site if he makes it difficult for millions of us to write all his content for free
I think he just wants a private club with all the people already inside on a familiar and well respected platform imo, he just doesn't realize that his 5 minutes of fame are over, people see for who he really is.
I don't think this is that complicated. The hypothesis Musk and Spez are pursuing is that right wingers are easier to monetize because they are stupid. They are basically purging the old, liberal web2.0 userbase, under the premise that they are going to build back something which is more friendly to the conservative social media space.
He just wants a private club with a familiar venue. He knows people like twitter, so he buys it for himself to play king among the plebs and rubbing it into the faces of his "critics" who truly know who he is. Sometimes I wonder if he actually acknowledges the outside world at all since his 5 minutes of fame. Anyways, the emperor has no clothes, and his self destruction is highly entertaining.
This actually isn't right. It's because musk has refused to renew twitter's Google Cloud Services partition, which expired June 30th, and has been (unsuccessful obviously) frantically trying to move twitter's cloud usage to in-house servers. Twitter has been the most popular social media website for almost a decade and never once have they had this issue. As usual everything musk touches turns to shit.
Are we sure on that? I've seen conflicting reports on whether they actually started paying or not (Ex. Engadget article from a week ago says they are). It's not public information so it's hard to verify.
Unfortunately, they also repel free users from using the platform entirely, and at a much higher ratio.
This is really, really bad for Twitter. The whole reason so many groups and people use it for official communications and announcements is because their audience can easily and freely see it. Rate limiting and requiring an account completely destroy that. And without it, Twitter really doesn't have much to offer.
Plus this goes directly against advertising lol
Yo for real, what's up with all these social media sites literally shooting themselves in the foot as we speak?.
Youtube planning to antagonize adblock users and limiting video watching, Reddit killing itself with bureocracy style and now Twitter doing this shit. Hopefully shit sites like TikTok or Facebook jump on the wagon too.
How is that even possible? By limiting access the load should be lower, there is no way
How so? The load should be much lower if an user needs to be logged in
They caused a request loop - https://lemmy.world/comment/703788
Musk seems like the kind of person who would test his code in production
Elon Musk, the latest billionaire owner of the online screaming match known as Twitter, sat slumped at his desk, staring at a wall of monitors blinking with a technicolor smorgasbord of error messages. The reason? He'd just let Twitter's hosting contract with Google lapse because he thought it'd be fun to see if he could migrate it somewhere else. The results? Not so fun.
A comment on Reddit had caught his eye, and he couldn't shake it. "Every now and then Elon must have a moment of clarity. Where it occurs to him 'Maybe I am just stupid?' But then he violently buries the thought."
"Stupid?" he scoffed aloud to his empty office, sending a mini landslide of Mars Rover prototypes tumbling off his desk. "I'm a genius."
He remembered how smart he'd felt when he decided to axe the account verification system, only to reinstate it after a week of high-profile mix-ups that included the Dalai Lama being mistaken for a llama enthusiast.
And the content moderation! Who needs it? Well, as it turned out, everyone. Without it, Twitter had turned into a feral wilderness of conspiracy theories, insult slinging, and more unsolicited pictures of eggplants than a greengrocer's catalog.
And then there was Kanye. "Free Kanye!" he'd declared one afternoon after one too many rocket fuel coffees. But after the notorious rapper had declared war on flannel shirts and clogged up the site with CAPS LOCK tweets, the ban was back on faster than you can say "Kim Kardashian for president."
"Stupid?" he muttered again, watching as Twitter spontaneously DDOS'd itself like a robotic bull in a digital china shop.
There was a pause. Then a grin spread slowly across Elon's face, as if he'd just understood the punchline to a particularly tricky joke. "Naaaah," he laughed, slapping the desk.
He looked at the chaos on the screens, the digital calamity his decisions had wrought, and couldn't help but chuckle. There was something amusing about being this absurdly, cosmically, hilariously brilliant.
"Back to the drawing board," he chuckled, picking up a Mars Rover and making it do little jumps across his desk.
As a former individual who understands the underlying systems, it seems like they botched deployment of a new feature causing issues and cannot figure out how to solve them.
Most of Twitter is and has been in maintenance mode since acquisition (think of 10 man engineering team and 1 left to handle maintenance).
That rate limit is insanely low, even for verified. I’m not verified, but I hit the limit in like 10 minutes of very distracted usage.
Yeah, 600/800 sounds like a lot until you realize that includes all the stuff you're just scrolling past in your feed or comments, not even clicking on. I wouldn't be surprised if they even overlooked the fact that ads might count against that cap too. I'm no heavy user but hit that cap in less than 20 minutes of reading people reacting to the news.
The hilarity is that these moves are the exact opposite of the so called Public Square he claims Twitter is or should be.
It’s just like how they forcibly remove you from public squares after you’ve passively listened to people for 15 minutes
The quintessential public square experience
Transcription for the blind: Screenshot of a Twitter post from Elon Musk, Twitter handle @elonmusk, that says:
To address extreme levels of data scraping & system manipulation, we've applied the following temporary limits:
1:01 PM Jul 1, 2023 3.6M Views
-Transcription from a human volunteer. Let me know how I can do better.
I thought this guy was supposed to be stepping down - didn't he even announce the new CEO?
I find this more mildlyhumorous than infuriating. I'm looking forward to a new era where every news article no longer includes a string of embedded tweets. :) As a non-twitter user, this certainly doesn't encourage me to bother making an account.
This reeks of him scaling back infrastructure to reduce costs, gets overloaded, and the C-level talent remainings best idea to prop it up is rate limiting.
Pathetic.
Therefore any company that puts out notices or alerts via Twitter should immediately exit the platform. Running their own server on mastodon would be a better bet
Maybe I'm dumb, but this is starting to seem like these Tech CEOs are dumber than we thought.
Why not just make 4000 accounts and have distributed scraping? What are they going to do next? "Unverified Twitter accounts can only be accessed 10 times?"
They've always been dumb. You don't put smart people in CEO chairs, you put smart people to do the actual work and leave all the decision making to idiots. Hence the results.
The ones who have that position because they provided capital or such really have nothing left to offer. And I bet that actually really bothers these venture capitalists. They have no use other than their money. When they try to show that they do, they prove that they don't.
I don't think this has anything to do with data scraping. They seem like can't pay Google server bills and now got into metered connection
This is beyond speedrunning enshittification now...
I'm eager to see what twitter users think of this - lots of people are watching, and corpos taking notes.
Edit: He's announced an increased limit but it's hardly generous IMO.
I think this really will be the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people. I don't think it will immediately kill twitter but it will have a lasting effect. And if not this I am sure he will come up with an even worse policy change within the next 2 months. Something like limiting it to only 10 tweets per day for unverified users.
Everyone in the world who uses Twitter to broadcast news to the masses now can’t. Every news org, company, and politician now has dramatically reduced incentive to post on Twitter.
Shows how much planning he does to change his mind in two hours flat.
He increased it again lmao
Anyone still on Twitter at this point is getting what they asked for. It's like you drove past every "last restroom for X miles" sign, and now you're in the middle of nowhere and have to piss.
I bet the throtteling is not caused by data scraping but by Twitter not paying their Google Cloud bills and therefore now with the new month they got services suspended.
Why are so many people suddenly against Twatter burning? I thought we all wanted that?
Twitter and Reddit both dying at the same time was not what I expected in 2023
Image Transcription: Twitter Post:
Elon Musk, @elonmusk
To address extreme levels of data scraping & system manipulation, we've applied the following temporary limits
I'm a human volunteer transcribing posts in a format compatible with screen readers, for blind and visually impaired users!
Maybe it was just me but Musk has never seemed like someone who actually understood tech. Just a rich guy who buys up other's work and talks a big game. I knew the second I heard he bought Twitter it was going to crash and burn. He's doing it way faster than I thought possible.
Of course he will eventually say this was all on purposes and not that he is crap at business and tech.
I see that a lot of people complain about reddit, twitter, and whatever mainstream website completely fuck the consumer, but fail to realize one crucial thing. The only time change happens in mob settings is when the pain of no change is greater than the pain of change. I applaud Elon, spez, and who ever else wishes to put there services behind their paywall whether it’s an API or just simply viewing tweets. Anyone in the know knows that it’s a crock of shit and anyone who isn’t is annoyed to the point where change is preferable. The sooner people figure out posting information, entertainment, and other forms of media/knowledge to the benefit of a company is horrendous the better. Now we have the opportunity to get rid of the corporate greed and basically open-source peoples knowledge from around the globe. Although like with reddit, mob mentality poses a real threat to communities like this one, I trust that you all are normal and level headed individuals who can come to disagreements but still respect eachother (as corny as that sounds). I much prefer it over giving more information to companies who use it to profit off of my content, while I receive nothing.
*Edit: Thank you kind stranger for the reddit gold! Glad you spent real hard cash so I can have reddit premium and reddit coins! The lovely people at reddit will be spending your money sitting on a yacht eating grapes in one hand and lobster in the other. I’m sure they are real thankful too! :) *
The Future
That man has got to legitimately be one of the stupidest motherfuckers to ever luck his ass into a pile of money.
Somehow I doubt it's even that. The guy's just a braindead, incompetent moron. I don't think the fucker's even smart enough to realize this is literally the worst possible decision he could've made.
Yeah Occam's Razor and all that, he's probably just a fucking idiot.
Funny enough, it's actually Hanlon's razor.
im pretty certain he is being paid by the saudis to destroy twitter. it's way too powerful a vehicle to be in the hands of the proletariat.
this might sound crazy but ..... this is why kbin/lemmy etc is so important. in about 2 years+ time, there will be a gigantic global civil war as the masses rise up and seek to annihilate the billionaires. the billionaires will hide behind the use of nukes by russia, then china invades taiwan, then WW3, then Biden is cloned, Covid26 arrives, global tsunamis and geostorms, and then the aliens invade. It's all pretty much clear. we need to organise now, to just give 0.5% of our kids a miniscule chance to survive the coming extinction of humanity.
Nice tin-foil hat you have there
Well I wasn't sure at first but you have convinced me
He's impulsive and doesn't know when to shut up. I got the distinct impression that, initially, he was absolutely not serious about buying Twitter. It was a joke/jest. BUT, because his antics affected their stock price he actually got forced into the purchase and now he's desperately trying to figure out how to make the purchase worth what he actually paid, which is fine and all, except he seems to be leading by impulse, not by consensus or logic. He wakes up in the morning, has some random ass idea and implements it without any oversight. Even his new CEO straight up admitted that she is basically a straw man CEO who will offer no friction to anything Elon wants to do.
limiting engagement an app that RELIES ON ENGAGEMENT????? IT CAN'T POSSIBLY GET DUMBER THAN THIS???
Time for Mastodon
What did he even think the purpose of APIs were. Data scraping puts unnecessary load on servers only to scrape out majority of the content. It’s funny how he shoots himself in the leg and now complain.
He's the cause of his own implosion. It's kind of wonderful to see.
Can’t wait for Reddit to relearn this lesson too.
I don't know about twitter but it is common for the API to also be powering the front end regular user's interact with. No matter what it's stupid to rate limit this heavily.
True. REST APIs are a godsend to create structures and effectively communicate data. Shame its on the hands of these whimsical cry-baby CEOs
This isn't mildly infuriating, Musk is being the biggest fedi advocate out there! He's selflessly nuking his own site so he can drive traffic to decentralized alternatives. This is a good thing lol, and should be an important lesson on link rot, and that social media should never be the primary method of communication.
Brilliant move to help sell more ads on the platform: limit how many people will even be able to see those ads
Twitter was an important unifying communications tool during the Arab Spring. The Arab spring was a threat to biz as usual in places like Saudi Arabia. The second largest investor in Twitter is Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia killed and dismembered a journalist from the US, more or less in plain sight. Elon is now killing and dismembering Twitter in plain sight to limit its power as a unifying tool that stands as a demonstrable, active threat to capitalism and oligarchs around the world.
Billionaires do favors for other billionaires. It's part of why spez is trying to tank Reddit. Remember how dangerous Reddit was to capitalism's status quo around the time of GME/Robinhood/Antiwork recently.
The specific moment we're in right now is meant to shatter consolidated organizing power on Reddit as we splinter into several smaller alternative platforms (or for some, disconnect entirely). Not saying we shouldn't be in Lemmy, but calling out the larger reality of the moment.
Billionaires do favors for other billionaires.
Sometimes the real DDOS are the companies we buy along the way
I mean I see why Reddit and Twitter are doing it. We're in a really weird transitional period of the internet right now, for better or for worse. They're doing it to prevent scraping, because why would you read all these garbage tweets to get to the information you need when an ChatGPT can spit out the exact information without fluff? It's taking their content without any funding back to them, effectively stealing their revenue.
So what are these companies to do? Honestly I hope this is birth to a new form of social media, and this benefits the fedi greatly. It will be unsustainable to run large social media companies like theirs who profit off of user data and content. Whereas tons of fedi servers ran by hobbiest, effectively ran out of pocket or by donations, is much more sustainable. They're doing it for community and more pure content that everyone wants without corporate fluff. If ChatGPT scrapes the fedi community, that's okay because the fedi isn't designed to make money so nothing is lost.
So with Spez having a hard on for Elon and how he runs Twitter, how long until we see this on Reddit? Premium members can view 1000 posts/day and regular members can only view 100 posts/day. Similar rule will apply to comments too.
I think spez is not that dumb lmao
Come on dude. You've seen what he's done to third party apps.
Wouldn’t be too sure on that one
Things like Reddit and Twitter are bad for billionaires. It makes it harder for them to exploit you when there is a public place to talk about their bullshit.
"Extreme levels of data scraping" my ass. This is probably meant to reduce server costs because Elon put a huge hole in this boat and now he does a very loud "look-what-you-made-me-do" scream. And what on earth would "system manipulation" exactly mean? Sounds like some pseudo-profound bullshit.
Elon is so damn transparent. I NEVER remembering anything like this happening before Elon. Dude is running this like a moronic mob boss.
"Hey..it'd be a shame if you could only view 600 tweets. I have this Twitter Blue that might be able to help...."
The mob boss who wants $8/mo for a lame service but won't harm you if you don't want it?
"To address extreme levels of failing to pay our bills & firing every competent person at Twitter, we've applied the following temporary limits:"
This truly is a genius level move. If users are using your site, they are contributing to your hosting costs. You don’t want that.
Between this and reddit going "down" yesterday, the internet just sucks right now.
It must have taken all of Elon's willpower to not make the limits:
I think it's important to remember that these companies DID NOT CREATE THIS DATA! They are protecting things that are not theirs.
They actually are, there is probably since terms you have agreed to, which gives them the right to your data.
But don't you think it's their site so they could do whatever they want to ?
Like for example, you own a huge plot that could be used for agriculture and you let your neighbors plant and grow fruits and vegetables in them. They also happened to use water from your house and you noticed that the water bills are increasing so you put in some sort of a restriction to reduce the bills by telling they can only use X liters of water daily.
And let's say, some of the neighbors give you some of the fruits and vegetables so you let them use X+1 liters daily.
So naturally the neighbors who got X liters would make a fuss about it but eventually the plot and water belongs to you while only the seeds,plants and fruits belong to the neighbors.
Here, the plot and water is like Twitter's servers,manpower, API and expenses
Plants, fruits and vegetables are your content you post.
So if you can't get enough of it(land and water), the best is to leave that plot and to look for another one right ?
Sure, they can do whatever they want, but everyone else is free to criticize them for doing so and go somewhere else with their time. Limiting the amount of time people can spend on your social media site, when you want as many people as possible looking at ads, is a bad idea.
Adding to the comment, I think this comparison is kinda rough.
That is because the platform also gets its revenue from your data and ads.
In your example, you use their plot for agriculture, but they get a part of your revenue from selling your vegetables.
You see where it gets weird? Limiting usage also limits their possible income for not having users interact with Twitter enough. This nets less money from ads and is, possibly, a nail in the coffin.
I gave up on Twitter when this turd took over but holy shit...
That has been his goal since he got forced to actually buy it rather than just boosting the stock so he could make a profit, which like most of his antics was really the only goal (publicity and money)
There’s a golden rule: don’t make big changes on an app on Friday because if it fails people are going to have to work during the weekend.
This asshole made the changes on a Saturday
This seems extremely low for all categories. Good for getting people unaddicted though
There are rumors that Twitter is having a dispute with its cloud providers, that is why they need to limit bandwidth.
This is for reading‽‽ That is absolutely insane.
Almost certainly this isn't anything to do with scraping. Like with Reddit, those with a stake in Twitter stand to benefit from AI and, as far as I know, there's no mass reposting (retweeting?) effort to something like Mastodon.
That would be trivial to block anyway, since it would be easy to identity the service accounts and source IP's of the requests. No need to impact average users.
What's more likely is he hasn't paid the bill for his cloud infrastructure and no longer has the capacity to serve so many users.
IMO, that's what you get when you fire half of your staff.
Twitter was great during the big earthquake we had in Japan, because phones weren't working. People sent out tweets for help and got help thanks to twitter.
After this, a lot of municipalites made accounts and now they post emergency info on twitter, but this just fucks everything up.
It must be nice to be able to waste 44 billion dollars and not miss it.
I could live comfortably for the rest of my life on 1/10,000th of what Elon spent.
Hopefully this leads to Twitter not being the public square of the internet anymore at least mainstream wise. The man is doing everything to make the site worse.
Great for the fediverse! I suspect that these changes to twitter and reddit are mainly a response to the growing hunger of generative artificial intelligence companies who are hoovering up data, basically for free. Change is never easy, but i'm optimistic that this is the break open source and federated communities needed to start taking off. I hope people can see the value in decentralizing and help support these open source projects financially so that they can really start to scale. The reality is, scaling is expensive, and we all need to help where we can. These Ai companies will not hesitate to suck up federated data also. If we want to live in an ad free world its gonna cost us.
And twitter blue dumbasses eat it up. Legit one of them said “he created a problem, and now he’s created a solution”. No, he didn’t say that as a criticism. He was telling people to buy twitter blue.