extension is INCOMPATIBLE with current GNOME version

I just don't get the vendetta GNOME has against background processes. GNOME devs just don't use email clients, cloud sync applications, chat clients...? GNOME treats my Nextcloud sync app (which I NEED to be running at all times) as if it was malware or something.

Context for not-Gnome users? How does a desktop care about anything not desktop?
- If you minimize a window, it goes into a list of "Background Apps" in the charms menu where the only option you have is to close it. There's no native systems tray.

Yeah, if you need to install extensions to make GNOME usable, GNOME is not for you. Seriously, there are other options. I can't stand using GNOME, but they have a vision they are sticking to and I can respect that.

Cinnamon is probably the best DE to give that old GNOME feel. At least in my opinion.
- Gnome also has their own GNOME Classic for people yearning for the old GNOME experience. Cinnamon is probably better though.
- Cinnamon is so close to the way I configured Gnome with extensions. Just that Cinnamon does not need any extensions for that. Best GTK based DE I think.
Or you just wait a little before you update or keep the extensions to small changes that are easier to update!
Nah, dash-to-panel is really good and makes it 10x better for me personally.
Conversely, after I tried vanilla gnome, I can't go back. It gets out of my way, is pretty bug free, visually consistent, and the workflow is lightyears ahead of anything else I've used.

The Win95 UX paradigm that pretty much everybody uses just seems so clunky to me.
Most distro maintainers disagree as they also ship Gnome with extensions pre loaded. Gnome with some extensions is an awesome DE.
Nah. This smooth brain paradigm is what causes problems in the world. "I respect your ideas" stfu, Gnome is bad
- I like and use it each day. Now who wins?

I have used XFCE, KDE, and GNOME and in my opinion, Gnome provides by far the best the best workflow for me. The UI is very keyboard-driven, which makes navigation very fast and intuitive. Also it doesn’t look like an outdated Windows version (like Plasma or XFCE) and I had way fewer bugs with it than with any other desktop.

I find it interesting how everyone always talks about the „Unix philosophy“ („software should do one thing and do it well“) but at the same time everyone likes Plasma for having hundreds of useless, buggy features.

Gnome has a core featureset and a robust extension-system if you need more. There is no bloatware in Gnome. And please don’t tell me something like „Gnome isn’t usable without a taskbar/dock“. It is, lots of people use it that way, not every desktop needs to be like macOS or Windows.

Of course it’s okay to like another desktop environment more, but I just don’t get why Gnome gets so much hate.

I've used GNOME for a year now.

I don't understand people calling GNOME keyboard-driven, it doesn't even support keyboard shortcuts for more than 4 workspaces, and it doesn't support tiling other than left and right.

I also feel like the plugin system is not great. The plugins break on every.single.update and you have to beg the maintainers to update them.

I agree about a dock/taskbar miss me with that :P

What frustrates me about GNOME is that it's otherwise so well-polished and smooth but just refuses to be easily customizable.
- Gnome is definitely keyboard driven, this is my workflow: Use Super + type name to launch apps, then tile them left and right with Super + Left and Super + Right. Two apps are enough for a workspace, if you need more, move to a new workspace using Super + Alt + Right. Gnome automatically creates new workspaces as you go, so you always have enough space. Swap between apps using Super + Tab. Almost like a tiling window manager, right?
  
  The plugin system is indeed very good, extensions can do pretty much everything. They break on an update because it makes sense: The author designed the extension for a specific version of Gnome, and it can't be guaranteed that it still works as intended on a newer version. You surely don't want an outdated extension to really mess up your desktop when it hasn't been properly updated. This is the safe way.
  
  And regarding customization? Funny story: when I started with Linux and I wasn't really into the meta yet, I started with KDE, but I switched to Gnome (GNOME 3.xx and GTK3) because I found it EASIER to customize. Gnome themes always looked way better than they looked on KDE and they were never bugged (e.g. missing contrast, wrong iconography). Also "extensions" were way less bugged than KDEs equivalent features. I only later found out that people preferred KDE because of its customization. However, I do agree that with Libadwaite, they really put an end to Gnome theming, but all in all, I think it's better because of app uniformity and an easier app development process (you can really see the Gnome app ecosystem flourish). Also, Adwaita looks pretty amazing nowadays, I don't really feel the urge to theme my desktop.
- That's what I fucking hate about it, great extensions, couldn't fucking settle on an API that doesn't break every update. When will the gnome devs ever be content with themselves
- shortcuts for >4 workspaces work fine, they're just not in the default settings app https://superuser.com/a/1732752
- Use pop shell for tiling and keyboard shortcuts in gnome
nah i think gnome is great for touchpad navigation
- Gnome on Wayland shits on anything and everything for how well they've done touchpad gestures. Even MacOS. Definitely Windows as well as other Linux DEs.
Its mostly the devs and the bad decisions they make around GNOME, for me i use a lot of apps that require Server Side Window Decorations (SSD) to be useful, specifically apps like Foot terminal (default gnome console or gnome terminal is not featureful enough and neither have sixel support, whereas foot terminal does have sixel) and gnome doesnt have any SSD on wayland, and GNOME also lacks customization features and doesnt have a standardized theming API and the GNOME devs consider themes to be "unsupported". Unlike on KDE Plasma where themes have a standardized API through the toolkit (qt) and are officiall supported. Also GNOME in general lacks basic features that require extensions whereas on other desktops you have things like a systray as a default.
- I agree regarding SSD, I do a lot of graphics development and having to deal with decorations on your own is really annoying. However, most windowing libraries support them nowadays. (GLFW has an open MR to include Libdecor)
  
  The lack of customization has been a decision they made in favor of Libadwaita. Libadwaita is a GTK4 library that makes developing apps for Gnome way faster. The Gnome ecosystem has really evolved in the last two years thanks to Libadwaita, there are so many nicely designed and practical apps. This is the trade-off I am willing to make. For me, a uniform and consistent desktop is way more important than theming, especially when apps look amazing by default.
  
  I don’t get what basic features are missing. I have been using Gnome for years now, I never felt the need for an additional feature. A system tray is not a „basic feature“, as I said, not every desktop has to be a Windows clone. I have never felt the need for one, if I need an app, I just launch it. Why do I have to have a bunch of cluttered and ugly icons visible all the time? An app can run in the background without a system tray by the way.

Exactly! Just integrate the bloody notification tray /running apps extension.

I get why that thing isn't implemented because it's really ugly and most of the icons there serve literally no purpose but they need a proper replacment because some apps simply need it!
- They've actually been talking about this for ages, but they won't unless it's cross-compatible with other DEs, using freedesktop standards. I wish we'd make headway on it soon.
- If they didn't serve a purpose, people wouldn't constantly ask for them back.

Bro why you gotta spit the truth to Gnome zealots like that?

I love vanilla gnome. I totally understand how some users prefer the flexibility of KDE, but a clean, minimal interface with easy access to workspaces is just the thing for me.

Me too, but tbh it should at least include vitals and gsconnect.
It's there a reason you don't use a tiling WM with no desktop environment if those are the three things you are looking for?
- Most of those require some configuration out of the box and target power-users who are comfortable with manually editing text-based config files (or editing header files and then recompiling from source if you're one of those people). One of Gnomes big selling points is accessibility, which none of the tiling WMs offer in any significant way.
- If it still allowed me to do everything I wanted to in an easy enough way, I wouldn't be opposed. I would say in short, I don't know enough about it to know whether I'd like it.
The only thing I really use is dash to dock

I'm tired of GNOME messing with it's API but hopefully this is the last time since they're switching to a standard system. Besides that, it's my favorite DE on Linux. I have to give plasma 6 a shot when it comes out but right now GNOME feels just right compared to other desktops.

Haha, gnome becoming stable. What a bunch of malarkey
- Much more stable and polished than KDE and I am running KDE myself. I think it only makes sense to run GNOME if you like the vanilla experience.
- Gnome is phenomenally stable considering it's a modern desktop.
  
  You only really get more stable by going to XFCE or something, which is basically on life support at this stage.
  
  Literally the reason why the Linux world went from Plasma being the standard to Gnome being the standard is because KDE was an unstable mess and Gnome was super stable.
Gnome doesn't have an extension API. That is why it is prone to breakage, since the code is injected into the actual shell. The upshot of this is that extensions can do pretty much anything. The downside is there is no stable API.

Personally, I like the current system. I am biased, I am a trusted review on https://extensions.gnome.org

The reason I don't use Gnome is because it's only usable after you've installed a bunch of extensions yet after every update, half the extensions are always broken.

Same. I don't understand why it is the most popular desktop on Linux. It's like the Windows 8 of Linux GUIs.
- I don't understand how you could say it's like Windows 8? I don't really see any meaningful similarities. Gnome is very much just its own thing.
  
  It's the other DEs that are like windows. Start button bottom left that opens a cramped app menu. Taskbar on bottom. Clock on bottom right. Minimise, maximise, close buttons on the top right of each program. The Win95 UX paradigm, basically.

Funny, GNOME 45 will break every extension without exception

Yeah, this is a big shame. I don't have context on the technical details but JS runtimes have been supporting CJS and ES modules in parallel for a decade now. Was it really too much work to support both for some time?

Of course I say this as someone who has contributed zero time to adding this support.

GNOME bad

Plasma good

XFCE better

I couldn't get used to plasma. I dunno why. I really like the gnome style applications window over a start menu.
- Liking the fullscreen app search thingamafuck is your prerogative even if I feel this kind of UX is only at home on a mobile phone (also I'm fairly sure Plasma can also do that with some fennagling--)
  
  The thing people (me included) detest about GNOME has very little to do with that anyway, peeps don't like how locked down it is and how it refuses to support certain features thought to be 'basic', so you have to use extensions.... Which can be janky on occasion -- And definitely will get abandoned by their creators and disabled when you upgrade GNOME version.
- I'm a plasma user and I would also prefer a fullscreen start menu. Ideally a fullscreen krunner with all its amazing bells and whistles.
  
  We each have to make the compromise that suits us best. I doubt most people think one desktop or another is perfect.

GNOME is basically the Apple of desktop environments. "You're wrong to want this super common thing, we know what's better for you and don't you defy us!"

You are free to fork it at anytime. I really can’t hate them for having a cohesive vision they plan on developing.
- That's fair, and people have.
Yep. GNOME is terrible. Unfortunately, it's the default desktop for most distros, so it's most new users' experience of "what Linux is".
- I don't always use Fedora, but when I do it's always Fedora KDE. Sometimes I forget that the default is GNOME which leads to confusion when posting about issues I run into on Fedora lol.

Me, casually running Mate and enjoying on stable and customizable it is. I'll let you guys fight while I enjoy my polished experience!

I would love Wayland support tho...

Same, I love Mate but cannot use it due to it not supporting fractional scaling (I use a 4K TV as my monitor).
- I would have thought a 4K TV was enough to use 200% on, no?

Setting up and adding things to linux until you break it is nature's way of teaching you linux. there's a bunch of other DEs you can try!

Big old case of Stockholm syndrome.

I can write and run hundreds of different server and service configurations, tooling, and standardized install experience though multiple packages, run ML, do ETL, etc, and it's 90% the same and a mostly sane process that's easy to learn, and quite marketable.

DE isn't that. It's garbage. It's overly complicated, you need an indepth understand of the eco system and tons of components and even if you end up learning the stack shit is still just going to break because of the absurdly broad nature of the entire stack. And frankly none of that is a particularly good skillet to have if you want to be paid well.

There are 3 reasons to use Linux DESKTOP.

Mandatory from your org.

You fundamentally do not support Microsoft and Apple for whatever reason.

You want to tinker in an endless loop if you want anything remotely beyond the default.

The former is predictable and well managed. The latter is chaos and pain.
- I want a to be able to run it on an old computer and get security patches. Only need the web browser.

base gnome + blur my shell is enough for me

This is the way👌

I like Gnome because it looks sexy and sleek, and comes default on my Ubuntu. I have a little experience with XFCE and LXDE on Proxmox and Raspberry Pis, and they're perfectly functional and great, so I don't want to besmirch them. But they give me a kinda uneasy sensation like I'm using a tamagotchi or something. I don't know if this is only because I'm using them on low-power potato computers or without proper display drivers, but they just look a little crude by comparison.

gnome looks decent out the box the rest need work to look good but can look better imo

I just can't get used to GNOME. I've been using "classic" DEs for too long, so every time I try GNOME I start customizing it and end up withh a worse version of KDE

I struggled with that for ages, eventually someone said I should give a serious go of vanilla Gnome for a while and if it doesn't work out, get something else because I was trying to force Gnome to be like the Win95 UX paradigm that pretty much everyone else uses, when that's not what it was made for.

I took their advice. I tried vanilla gnome and was infuriated by it. It made me angry to use my PC. Until after a couple of days, it just clicked all of a sudden and made so much sense.

Now I find the workflow amazing. It just gets out of my way and puts the actual programs I need to use centre-stage. Honestly, lightyears ahead of anything else I've used.

I'm glad KDE has added an experimental activities view option, because that's the main thing I miss when I'm not using Gnome.
- I tried to do that as well but I realized, that my main use of my Linux desktop which is gaming and having a second screen for whatever else on the side, so usually two fullscreen applications at all times isn't that well served. I'm sure if I used my PC for more serious multitasking and had limited screen space I would be avle to appreciate Gnome better.

chuckles in i3

Gnome has been rudderless since 3.x. I said it.

Xfce has been my daily driver for a reason.

Can you sell me on Xfce? Haven't really tried it. How does it compare to KDE in terms of customization?

I'm not gonna lie, I really hated the direction that Gnome went after Gnome 2. Shell just felt way too constricting for my taste. Thankfully, Cinnamon and Mate released to fill in the void.

I use two extensions in gnome I cannot live without. Currently travelling, so I don't know their names by heart. One is for vertical workspaces, the other to visualize CPU/memory/network/disk.

I've had to use a Macbook for a month now, and let me tell you. The world of "I need some functionality = install third party stuff" is infinitely worse.

Want to launch custom terminal with global hotkey? => third party app

Want to manage window layout with keyboard shortcuts? => third party app

Want to add support for normal keys on an external keyboard? (like, home key not being dead) ? => third party app

Want better screenshot support? => third party app

Want to be able to navigate workspaces without waiting 2 second with 120Hz refresh rate monitors (because developers implemented it wrong)? => third party app

Want an alt+tab functionality that isn't a mix between bugged and useless? => third party app

The situation of gnome would be a godsent. It's so bad that I don't care about system monitoring or vertical workspaces. But, once I do, those too would be third party apps.

Gnome devs: you will take what we make and you'll like it!

Also gnome devs: Apple did nothing wrong

What is the context for "Apple did nothing wrong"? When did they say that?
- It's ancient history now, but gnome didn't used to look like poor imitation of Apple's design. Then the dev decided that macOS UI was superior and you will like it unconditionally.

For me the only shell extension that matters is material-shell which gives me nice window tiling. When it works it works when there’s an update it breaks 90% of the time. I almost always have to do some hacky shit with js to get it working.

Use KDE, it's stuffed with features to begin with

I love Gnome and Adwaita, the quick settings are awesome.

<3 some xfce.

Why are they doing this? Because they want to envolve and don't be stuck with old things. However, if they did the transition in a good way by giving the developers time to adapt, that I don't know

Well, most extensions still break on every GNOME major version. Some are actively maintained and will be updated quickly-ish, others not.

IMO if a lot of the small extensions were just integrated into GNOME, some of them could be a single toggle somewhere in the settings. Like a clipboard manager or Launch New Instance, or Wallpaper Switcher.

Is there another desktop with nice macOS style animations other than gnome? I mean, for me, Gnome is clearly for people who would choose macOS if no linux was available to them (me included)

My extensions work fine on fedora

Mine did too until I updated to Fedora 38 and got GNOME 44
I installed the Gnome 45 beta and everything seems to have already been updated to work.

Extensions are amazing if you need one or two small fwatures but if you mod something too much it will break eventually even if there is no update to the API. This time it's a easy fix again but it's also quite universal breakage sincee they switch from GJS to some more normal JS implementation and that changes some syntax but I expect developers to implement that quickly, maybe most of it could even be done with scripts I guess.

Change scary, my extension I used that is unmaintained won't work in Gnome 45 and it's Gnomes fault.

I have a few extensions to change Gnome in Fedora and have a great experience with them.

So did I until I updated my GNOME to 44 and all my extensions stopped working

I like Vanilla GNOME. Nothing compares.

I have abandoned the DE. It is nothing but bloat now.

No reason to besmirch all DEs when it's Gnome devs specifically who have been on a crusade to amputate Gnome for a decade now.
- Considering I'm shitposting on a meme, username checks out

This is like the primary reason I use XFCE

It just works nicely and efficiently and you can customize it in every way possible. Hell you can change the compositor or even run a subset like xfce-panel.

The only real downside is XFCE doesn't have wayland support, which in of itself is already an arguable need.

GNOME is like using a chromebook which is insulting to the ability of a computer.

Is it just me who has never experienced any issues with gnome extensions whatsoever? Sure, a lot of them errored out and just wouldn't work, but it wouldn't affect my system.

(Those are issues)
I mean if you are running Debian you are a-ok. So that's nice. Debian 12 has Gnome 43 I believe. Nice and stable, no extensions breakage is gonna happen there.

Laugh in Cinnamon..
I was grow up using windows xp and 7 btw.. XD

Just write them yourself.

Me on my way to put "45", "46", "47"... in every manifest so I can break my desktop more efficiently