2y ago

DS9: Currency and the Federation

In TNG, Picard says that the Federation has evolved past a need for money. Indeed, we never see any.

In DS9 though, Quark talks a lot about bar tabs and costs. Surely O'Brien and Bashir don't get free drinks, so how do they pay? I'd assume that any Ferengi worth his lobes won't accept anything that can be replicated, so do Federation officers get a stipend of tradeable "value" when interacting with cultures that still expect payment?

I think there's also a reference to Quark paying rent to Sisko for running the bar. Presumably that's denominated in latinum. I wonder where it goes? Maybe the secret "Garak black ops" fund.

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I always assumed the rent went to the Bajorans. After all, it’s their station, Sisko just runs it for them.
As for the bar tabs, I don’t think they ever really explained how starfleet officers paid for stuff on DS9. I always just assumed they had some kind of credit account through Starfleet or something when they were posted there.
- I'm 99% certain quark wasn't paying rent after the federation took over? Wasn't there some point where he started getting pissy about something and Sisko threatened to start charging rent?
  
  That happened at least once, when Quark's employees formed a union and went on strike. I believe Sisko went to that well a number of times when Quark crossed a line or refused to do something important.
  Really, it makes sense. Quark is profiting hugely from the Federation's willingness to not only give him a bunch of business but also not collect on some key expenses. That's a great business arrangement, but also gives the Federation leverage over someone they wouldn't otherwise have any trust in.
- As for the bar tabs, I don’t think they ever really explained how starfleet officers paid for stuff on DS9. I always just assumed they had some kind of credit account through Starfleet or something when they were posted there.
  They probably do, since the Federation deals with civilisations that use money on the regular. They likely have an allowance/stipend specifically for that.
  "Farpoint Station" has Dr Crusher ask for some cloth to be put on her tab on the Enterprise, so DS9 isn't the only station using a similar system, which might be the same system, it's just that Quark's is a Ferengi business on a Bajoran station, so the issue comes up more often compared to someone who might be living on a starship, or on Earth Spacedock.

I think the officers do get some form of stipend. I can't recall if this was mentioned directly in the show though.
Do we know if any Federation members use money?
- To my knowledge the federation is completely post monetary. But, we do see individual people who in it that use money. Riker mentioned a few times owing debts or being owed debts from card games and the like, iirc. I think it's largely a personal choice, as money is unnecessary in their society. Nothing that matters has a monetary cost, like shelter, food, etc. And luxuries within the federation itself seem to also be free at the point of use, but I think there is some kind of credit system in use. Sisko mentions using up a months worth of transporter credits to come home for dinner during his time at the academy, if I'm remembering right.
  Given the whole schtick of being a post capitalist, but not quite fully communist, society that the franchise has, combined with my personal knowledge of various socialist ideas around transitionary societies, my best guess is that they function off a form of labor voucher. Non transferable credits to be used for whatever goods are restricted or scarce. But with some kind of loophole around the transferability when it comes to dealing with non federation members who still use money.
  
  Hmm I wonder even more how this works for Grandpa Sisko. How does his restaurant get allocated the food he needs to make his famous jambalaya? He makes it very clear the food he uses is NOT replicated.
  
  @DharmaCurious
  Bolarus has an operational bank (which Morn robbed) and Crusher pasys with Federation Credits in Mission Farpoint.
  Also note that it's called New Earth Economy. It's earth that has no money.
  
  I'm very unclear on what exactly makes "transporter credits" or "labor vouchers" different from "money."

Quark doesn't pay rent for the bar, Sisco mentions this at one point when Quark is trying to sell weapons via the holodeck. Because he's annoyed with him he points out that he doesn't pay rent and he doesn't pay taxes and the federation let him get away with a lot, but there is a line.
- Yeah. I kind of feel like Quark takes as much per diem from Federation officers as possible in exchange for no rent or tax. It isn't like the Federation is asking for top shelf liquor, so this is a quid pro quo for him.
  It is like giving Damar whatever top shelf liquor he wanted if it meant keeping the Cardassians on DS9 happy.
  
  All he ever needed for Starfleet personnel was Root Beer and Raktajinos.

They get a per diem of like 2 slips of latinum specifically while on the station. This is mentioned in one of the first season episodes.
- Having watched DS9 several times, I've never noticed this. Now I must find this reference...
  
  I only caught it this last time I watched it from start to finish because I, too, had questioned how they pay for stuff. I mean, the holodeck they have allotted time for which was part of the deal Sisko made to keep Quark on the station for morale (and info), but they also drink at the bar and play Dabo. Those definitely couldn't be just gratis lol

Another time money comes up is the episode, In the Cards, where Jake wants to buy a Willie Mays baseball card to cheer up his dad. He talks Nog into paying for it because as a Federation citizen Jake doesn't have any money.
I found some of the dialogue on Memory Alpha:
It's my money, Jake! If you want to bid at the auction, use your own money.
I'm Human, I don't have any money.
It's not my fault that your species decided to abandon currency-based economics in favor of some philosophy of self-enhancement.
Hey, watch it. There's nothing wrong with our philosophy. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity.
What does that mean exactly?
It means… it means we don't need money!
Well, if you don't need money, then you certainly don't need mine!
I also imagine Starfleet officers in a non-Federation posting getting stipends. Or maybe Quark and other business owners bill the Federation for whatever Federation citizens buy? And maybe that arrangement doesn't extend to the auction with the baseball card?
There are references to Jake buying from some of the station's businesses. I think I remember him buying jom-jom sticks, and dining at the Klingon restaurant. (Did Jake ever use a holosuite on his own?) I'm thinking either Jake has some sort of allowance or stipend, and is exaggerating when he says he "doesn't have money", or those businesses make special arrangements for Federation citizens.
- This leads me to another thought: are station residents charged for using the replicators in their quarters? I imagine the replimat charging like other station businesses; so what about private replicators? Or maybe I'm wrong, and the replimat is a free public service?
  I'm guessing replicator use would be free under Federation jurisdiction the same way Quark isn't charged rent. But on the other hand, it's a Bajoran station - Starfleet only administers it. Now I'm wondering what kind of negotiating went on to get the struggling provisional government to pass up revenue from DS9 rental spaces.
  
  You just know Bajor happily relinquished the potential income from rental spaces on the station in exchange for the Federation keeping their military presence there.
  
  @hallettj The replimat is probably free. They likely don't set up account for every Skreea. It's just the public replicator place.
- I’m thinking either Jake has some sort of allowance or stipend, and is exaggerating when he says he “doesn’t have money”
  I mean, having walking around money and having Mom-style "now that's walking around money" (i.e. enough to buy a Willy Mays rookie card) are two different things.

The reference to Quark's rent is how Starfleet doesn't charge anything for it

My working theory is that Federation Economists make a distinction between a monetary system and a credit system. Credits can buy food, clothing, shelter, and nice things to enjoy. Money does all that, as well, but also can be invested with the hope of making more money than you started with. There is no Federation stock market.

In TOS, at least, the Federation used credits and traders seemed to do quite well. In TNG and later, we see them barter for nearly everything.
WRT Quark in particular, I don’t remember him selling anything that wasn’t replicated. My head canon was always that Starfleet took care of the tab for those personnel who didn’t want to dabble in money as a hobby.

- Hello,
  Daystrom Institute is a place for serious, in-depth discussion about Star Trek. One-liner jokes and other shallow content are not appropriate here.

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