Tire wear and tear revealed as a major contributor to waterway pollution

Do you have a source?

Even in raindrops!

You might notice I said we should “move away from cars” which obviously includes building alternatives not just abandoning cars.

If you’re responding in good faith and genuinely wanting to learn about this topic, you might try looking into how other countries (I presume you’re American or Canadian?) manage with fewer cars. For example, other cold countries like Finland and northern Japan walk, bike, and use public transportation all year round, even in -20 weather. Check out this video. Totally possible. Obviously, the US and Canada had big cities before the invention of cars, so I’m not sure why you think there are no possible alternatives to cars.

Have you ever heard of buses and trains? Almost every town over here with 10.000 inhabitants has trains running every 15 minutes in either direction.

"There is no viable alternative to a car when it is 20 below and you have to drive 30 min to get to work."

Perhaps theres a solution buried in there. Organize society so were not burning our lifespan and the planet unecessarily commuting.

"There is no viable alternative to a car when it is 20 below and you have to drive 30 min to get to work.

Bus, train.

"What we can stop doing is proposing no alternative"

Bus, train, walkable cities, remote work, increased automation and reduced labour reducing commute requirements, production near consumption to reduce freight, tackling international economic inequities so it isnt cheaper to make a widget accross the world at poverty wages and ship it to those who live on the other side to buy within the means of their poverty wages - purchasing low quality quickly broken widgets that need consistent replacement and therefore further freight for that consistent supply.

In the US, moving away from cars is a decade+ project. The alternatives are bicycles, trams, ebikes, walking, trains, busses, and subways.

All of them require substantial zoning changes and a change in focus from transportation departments from car capacity to people capacity and safety.

Most people in the US can't feasibly not drive. A good start are things like my neighborhood. I live 1.5 from a shopping center with grocery store and other essentials, but have to drive there. It would be a minimal change and cost to connect a few neighborhood streets to the back of the shopping center or finish the sidewalk/bike trail that abruptly ends half way there.

Another good start is giving tax breaks for employers that do 32 hour work weeks or even 4 10 hour days to reduce driving.

Another idea is allow for small general stores in residential areas.

Another idea is HSR on easy routes like LA to Las Vegas.

Another idea is trams along long strips with lots of foot traffic like public beaches and Las Vegas boulevard.

Another is to add bollards in cities with bike lanes that are just painted lines on the road so people feel safer using them.

Idk, maybe public transportation? We're not getting rid of cars, but one bus full of people is better than if every individual had their own cars. It's not about elimination, it's about reduction.

There is no viable alternative to a car when it is 20 below and you have to drive 30 min to get to work.

Funny you bring that up... bicycling in extreme cold is very similar to skiing, I've done it... no skin exposed, breathable layers, you have to worry more about getting too warm than too cold

There is a difference between cargo/kg of rubber tire. On your bike youre not carrying an external metal framework, liquid resirvoirs filled with liquids, air conditioning units, filters, fans, belts, double inaulated doors etc.

You can make the logical leap that the amount of rubber waste generated per person is likely different in different vehicle types. Cars vs busses, vs personal bikes. And a smart bet would be less per person on a bike vs car, considering both the weight and physical differences - e.g. speed, momentum and required force against the tires to accelerate and stop.

I shouldn’t have to say this: biking and walking do not pollute as much as driving a car.

Go look at small towns in Europe and the fucking trains they have. Then weep when your city 100 times the size has worse public transportation than them.

You don't need to live in a big fucking city for public transportation, you just need a government that fucking cares.

No, the idea that this is only possible in dense cities is a myth. Look at the town planning of small rural communities in the US established before the dominance of cars. They are way more walkable and bikable than most modern developments. People living in small towns probably still need to own a car, but they don’t need to use one nearly as much.

This artificial division between super high density cities where public transportation is possible and super low density suburbs where you must have a car is also a very North American mindset. There are small towns and villages throughout Europe and Asia serviced by buses and trains, and with plenty of biking and pedestrian infrastructure. Cars aren’t inevitable, we just seem to be unable or unwilling to imagine anything else.

You gonna force everyone into dense cities and make them walk

I don't advocate completely getting rid of cars, but they aren't always a good way to get around.

Why should large portions of the US be all but forced to drive a car? It requires registration, licensing, insurance, and sometimes inspections or emissions testing?

Bicycles, pre-ww2 style small towns, mixed used zoning, and rail would all reduce car usage.

For example, allow building small general stores in residential areas like mine so people don't have to drive to the store for every little thing. Lots of minor improvements add up.

I'd be happy to answer any questions about reducing car usage.

I feel like we shouldn't be arguing with each other about this stuff? It's like class conflict, wrong enemy.

Because it's not in the hands of donors and lobbyists

BOTH are problems. Yes people buy vehicles that are too big. But electric vehicles, whether it be trucks or sedans, weigh significantly more than their ICE counterparts. I’m in favor of EVs over ICEs, but the bigger solution is not just “more of another type of car”. We also need a world with fewer cars.

We had the solution for that 100 years ago. Streetcars were once the primary mode of public transit in hundreds of North American cities and towns.

• Fully electric
• No batteries
• No tire emissions

I do not want my tires to degrade by themselves - the solution is walkable/bikeable neighborhoods and public transport

Have you heard about trains? More than a hundred years ago people could go from one village to another using a network of railways. My rural region had multiple stations and it was possible to go in cities that now require a car to do so.

And now I'm cycling on some of that old disused railway network. In rural regions too!

It's obvious that it's not everyone that can do with a cocktail of transport and take trains or bike everywhere, but reducing the number of cars by offering options that were existing a century ago could be a good place to start, instead of trying to save the polluting and inefficient car industry.

Pioneers used to ride those babies for miles.

You got an audible laugh from me for what it’s worth 😂

And the relationship between weight and tire/road wear is non-linear. I.e. 2000 lbs is not 10x worse, but worse to the fourth power!

This is why electric cars are not just a straightforward win. They are so much heavier that they will cause significantly more tire pollution and road damage, not to mention pedestrian deaths.

Yea this is a good point. I’ve had my road bike for four years and haven’t changed the tires yet, but I’ve had to replace my tires two or three times on my car (long work commute on sketchy mountain roads, and a pair of flats).

I haven’t changed them on my road or mountain bike yet, and I’ve had them for 4 and 6 years respectively

one of the big American car mfg like GM was bragging that they developed a mushroom-based automotive tire that used no petroleum and was non-toxic/organic but then never produced any for sale and i cant find any press releases now for it.