Fears of peace talks with Putin rise amid US squabbling

Fears of peace talks
What kind of bullshit Orwellian headline is this? Peace is GOOD, stopping the bloodshed is GOOD. We WANT less people to die.
- Somebody think of the Lockheed shareholders!
  
  Poor bastards need more stock buy backs
- Inb4 "acksually killing thousands over lines in the sand is good" rhetoric
  
  Too late, that shit is all over this post already
- A real mask off moment there.
- The only reason I opened the article, "whatchu mean fear of peace talks?!"
  Like I get it, Ukraine shouldn't capitulate. But ending the bloodshed is a good thing, surely.
  
  To what end though? Freeze the border where it is now and give Russia another few years to build up force for round 3?
  
  The issue is that we've already tried the whole peace thing before. Remember the Budapest Memorandum? The Minsk Protocol & Minsk II? The Partition & Friendship Treaties?
  I feel like the heart of the issue is that Russia doesn't want peace. If it did, we would not be here in the first place.
- The fear is that there is pressure for peace talk conditions to be less than fair to Ukraine, that this would be little more than appeasement of Russia, like what happened with Czechoslovakia in the 1930s
  
  Ukraine was in a far better position when US and UK sabotaged peace talks last March, and Ukrainian position continues to deteriorate. So what exactly do you think delaying negotiations more is going to accomplish?
- The hill is a pretty conservative outlet but this is a disturbing headline for sure. The only way to end the war is with peace talks, there is no other option. The better Ukraine does on the ground the better they will do in the negotiations.
  
  Always pay attention to the commenter‘s instance. All three above are hexbear users, so expect a heavy pro russian stance.

Fears of peace talks
Peace bad, war good!
Did I get that right?
- Defending your home is good.
  
  The best way to defend your home is to stop the bombs from falling on it. Unless you're not talking about people's homes, families, and friends, but rather talking about some arbitrary line in the sand that people should be sent to die for.
  
  And that's why you supported the breakaway republics?
  
  Not being dead is even better.
  
  That's why you love landlords

If Ukraine enters peace talks now, have they gained anything or put their country in a better position since the original peace talks, which were sabotaged by Boris Johnson and British intelligence, over a year ago? Have they gained any significant territory since what was proposed then? Is their army in a stronger position? Are any gains since then worth the losses?
Just looking at it from a purely pragmatic and realpolitik perspective, I don't see how anyone can argue that Ukraine has gained anything significant in this stalemate of a conflict. If they get similar results now, as what was on the table originally at the first peace talks, it means that their Western backers essentially sold a pipe dream to Ukraine that never materialised. Is the collective West ready to explain that to Ukraine, and the rest of the world? That they used Ukraine as a testbed for their weaponry against Russia, sold Ukraine a utopian fantasy that they'd be able to regain significant territory using Western weapons and tactics which never happened, and hundreds of tens to hundreds of thousands of people got killed or injured to accomplish very little.
- Turns out that an offensive is really hard. Who would've thought? Definitely not centuries of military doctrine.
- According to Ukraine it was uncovering the evidence of atrocities such as Bucha that ended any chance of peace talks early doors.
  Uncovering mass graves of civillians is likely to do that mind you.
  
  To provide context, we had a large number of videos coming out early in the war showing civilians taking up arms and otherwise impeding the invasion. They aren't legal combatants by international law, but they're not exactly civilians that got caught in the crossfire: they put themselves there.
- looks like they got back a bit east of Kharkiv & to the north bank of the Dneipr---long before this last big 'offensive' tho. Russia might've given that pittance of territory up in a peace deal ooth.
- havent they breach crimea lines? they are the offensive now so they could demand more.
  
  They managed to partially capture a handful of villages in the security zone after three months. They are nowhere close to Crimea. The offensive had been a complete disaster and Russia has so far gained more territory in the north than Ukraine has in the south.

These Baltic and Polish dipshits should just be airdropped on to the frontlines if they want the war to continue so badly.
Without parachutes.
- Yeah, along with the dipshits commenting from somewhere safe out in the West or whatever that never learn from history about appeasement that doesn't work.
  No one "wants the war to continue". But "dipshits" from Poland and countries near Russia know that they will not stop there, and after Ukraine they're next.
  
  This person is just trying to spread propaganda implying that it's Ukraine and Poland that are to blame for the war. "If Ukraine would just surrender to this invading force, the war can end and everyone will live happily ever after."
  They're carrying water for a hostile dictatorship.
  
  Right Russia will invade NATO countries.
  
  Hey, why don't you go and sign up for the foreign legion instead of shitposting here while other people die.
- Because nobody should ever resist becoming a russian citizen by force, right?
  Bonus: https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/ukraine-russia-war-donetsk-putin-b2200925.html here is the guy (Gubarev) who led the pro-Russian protesters who blockaded and occupied the Donetsk Regional State Administration building in 2014. "We come in peace, unless you don't want to become one of us."
- Said by someone who has never lived under occupation.

"Fear of peace talks"
- Does being a member of hexbear instantly mean you have to spam all your posts with images? What a shitstain instance.
  
  Ik, they are always so toxic, coming in and attacking people under the flimsiest pretext
  
  Oh god I used a reaction emote oh fuck somebody please stop me
  
  Tell us what youre really mad at here. I can guess.
  
  👶
  
  ...the fuck kind of gripe is this? People post images in threads on the internet. For all the unbridled hate I see for the instance... posting and using images?

- Yes Ukraine is free to ignore them. The western coalition funding Ukraine's war effort is also free to stop doing so. I'm not saying this to express that I wish Ukraine to be pressured to settle, but instead to highlight that Ukraine is not a self-reliant actor in this conflict.
- Here, in the US, people have difficulty accepting that America doesn't have direct influence on all other nations.
- Wasn't Ukraine willing to have peace talks last year until our good pal Boris Johnson came in and wrecked it all?
  
  I believe the peace talks fell apart once they discovered evidence of all the rape and murder committed by the russians.
- Do you know anything about Ukraine or what Zelensky campaigned on for his election campaign? Do you know what Ukranians want? Are you Ukrainian?
  
  I know they consider themselves a free, self-governing nation who can negotiate their own terms.
  
  Did Putin campaign on committing genocide? Is that what Russians want? I don't think so.
- I know it's hard for a NAFO bot to understand, but Ukraine lost its sovereignty when US overthrew the democratically elected government in a violent coup.
  
  Lol
  
  🤡

- Pull your nose put of Putin's ass. Putin doesn't want peace, he wanted to steal juuuust a little bit more and at this point he just hopes not to be assassinated by his cronies for fucking everything up

Great, another Hexbear brigading thread. Hexbear needs to be defederated, it's a bunch of fake communists spreading authoritarian propaganda.
- Agreed. Hexbear and lemmygrad idiots are pretending to be all for peace and yet support the war mongers in russia.
  These instances are a magnet for dishonesty and propaganda. Plus they have a 4chan attitude towards discussions, i.e. they keep shifting goalposts if you press them and throw absurd statements at you while doing so. There is nothing redeeming of those places.
- They didn't even read the article either clearly lol
  One Baltic official, requesting anonymity because of the sensitivity of the topic, told The Hill that Baltic states are concerned that pushing Ukraine into negotiations will have dangerous ripple effects throughout the region.
  This is the "fears of peace talks"
- The Hill is propaganda? Do you even hear yourself?
  
  I didn't say that and I'm pretty sure you know that's not what I meant.
- cry ab it, oh wait you already are

fears of peace
Sounds about right when it comes to what wine cave warriors crave and what they fear losing.
- I heard those wine glasses go clink
  
  >edit like idk hours later
  FUckK I heard them clink again!
  ya know what, im actually okay with this little gag in my head

I don't believe this for one second. I haven't heard anything from the Ukraine administration that would suggest in any way that they are interested in peace talks. In fact, their recent choice of putting a Crimean Tatar as the Minister of Defence suggests that they are serious about taking Crimea back from Russia. I hear nothing but absolute resolve by both the Weat and Ukraine to keep fighting until a Ukraine victory.
- I hear nothing but absolute resolve by both the Weat and Ukraine to keep fighting until ~~a Ukraine victory.~~
  Until the last Ukrainian. That's what I've heard too.
  
  I heard that all the time too. From Russian propaganda mainly. Is someone else independently claiming such theories as well?
  
  I know you people don't consider Ukrainians actual humans with agency but they fight because they are forced to do so by Russians. And if they stopped fighting they would be eradicated by Russians. Whether the West wants them to resist Russia or not has no weight in that.
  
  They're fighting because the last time they didn't fight russia they had the holodomor.
  They haven't forgotten.
  
  Yeah have you heard about the weapon supply talks with North Korea?
  Kim jong is completely resolute to fight the west, to the last Russian 😢

Worst fucking title.
Fear of peace? That's pretty fucked up.

Please upvote this comment if you are a liberal and this headline gave you pause and maybe a nagging "are we the baddies?" moment of reflection
- And then I read the article and remembered: reality is more complicated then good-bad.
  
  A sociopath told you that you aren't capable of having moral judgements about people dying and that you needed to listen to vetted experts instead. It's not complicated actually. I contend that pointless death is in fact a bad thing
- Not upvoting as a diehard commie, just to respect the vote. Would love to see an actual poll of libs on this

This is great news

Fears of peace

Death to America

Russia has done horrible things to the Ukrainian people for a good century now. I hope the Ukraine doesn't get pressured into giving its land and people over to Putin. Any deal needs to give Ukraine all its territory back, and for Russia to keep its military off their border.
- What has Ukraine allowed to have happen to it's ethnic Russian population comprising a significant portion of the east of Ukraine done during it's time? You speak like a US state department underling. Whose office are you in exactly?
  
  I'm pretty left leaning, and I'm against any fascist state trying to turn its neighbors into vassal states for its interest. And yes, that means being against a lot of what the US does as well.
  
  Are you making fun of someone for parroting US talking points, while yourself parroting Kremlin talking points?
  
  What has ~~Ukraine~~ Czechoslovakia allowed to have happen [sic] to it's [sic] ethnic ~~Russian~~ German population comprising a decent portion of the ~~east of Ukraine~~ [sic] West of Czechoslovakia done during it's [sic] time?
  The settlement of the Czechoslovakian problem, which has now been achieved is, in my view, only the prelude to a larger settlement in which all Europe may find peace.
  Neville Chamberlain, British Prime Minister, September 30th, 1938.
  More context:
  The Munich Agreement[a] was an agreement concluded at Munich on 30 September 1938, by Nazi Germany, the United Kingdom, the French Republic, and Fascist Italy. The agreement provided for the German annexation of part of Czechoslovakia called the Sudetenland, where more than three million people, mainly ethnic Germans, lived.
  
  What about what about what about...
  
  https://www.putin-itogi.ru/putin-voina/

It would probably be a good thing if there can be an end to conscripts killing conscripts.
- It really depends. If Russia gets to keep territory it conquered, keep children it kidnapped, not pay for the destruction and murder it wrought, see sanctions lifted and proceed to immediately re-arm and continue on its path of indoctrinating children into becoming fascist warriors for the next round, I wouldn't call that peace.
  
  Sure, but that's an expectation of demilitarization by nuclear powers, not a cessation of warfare.

Fears of peace talks
Seems like mask off moment. Now i will read the comments if i suspect the resident liberal warmongers are still on their lines.
EDIT: The condensed copium cloud over liberal posts is even denser than imagined, with multiple layers.
- my thought as well.
  How can anyone has fears of peace talks. jfc
  
  I'm guessing they fear that like in 2014, they will have to concede land to Russia, which is what they did NOT want to do. It's not the fear talks they fear, it's the result.

Wow, that is some bad title. I would say concerns are justified if Russia can just keep annexing chunks from other countries. It started with Georgia and Ukraine and we can see the same events happening in Moldova currently.
Also if Russia were to share a proper border with Poland then that's pretty much guaranteed WW3, Poland hates Russia with a passion.

...I'm sure Ukraine would gladly put down their arms and watch Russia fight eastern European countries instead, if they really want to make this their fight instead of Ukraine's.

It’s not “peace” if Russia gains territory. Then it’s capitulation.

"Mother Russia is strong"
Oh god, you are funny.
Mother Russia is near death at this point. The world has seen that the Russian army can't even invade small parts of a country that is a fraction if its own size. Corruption in your army os so rampant that your vehicles have been falling apart by themselves.
Mother Russia is the laughing stock of the world, at this point and due to the genocide being perpetrated, it's also hated and a black sheep for decades to come.
Russia won't be able to get high tech equipment anymore dor anything.
Your mothers lost their sons because all the smart and rich ones fled the country. Phuket has a nice "alternative invasion" of young Russian men that fled your country and its a single example. Young men that now are removed from your economy and that is on too of the thousands of dead of your shitty laughingly called "smo"
Rich countries no longer want to trade with Russia so your mother is limited to the few countries left that will squeeze her balls because they know they can.
Be careful mother Russia, china has seen how disgustingly weak you are and might help a few other areas in Russia to revolt and become ~~independent~~ Chinese pawns.
Mother Russia is fucked, and if you don't know that then you're even more pathetic than I thought.

"SMO" really shows where you get your info from. You support a dictator / maffia boss, you support genocide, and you are on the losing side.
Your shit army couldn't even invade a country properly because of all the corruption going on and now you're being kicked out.
Russia is the laughing stock and black sheep of the world and it will take decades to rid itself of that mark. Your smart and strong men flew the country because fuck that, they're not dying for Putin's bullshit. The only few counties left willing to trade with you are squeezing your balls because they know they can. Russia hasn't been this week since it's founding, and you better start worrying about olgout other borders and your internal affairs. Russia is what it is because it suppressed millions. Now that it's falling appart, those suppressed will stand up, and china, I'm sure, would love to annex a piece of Russia.
You're fucked.

The fake progressive right wing warmongers of lemmy sitting in their comfortable spaces from across the globe are going to be upset at the prospect of peace.
- I feel attacked.
- I wish all the westies cheering this war on would sign up for the foreign legion and go fight the orcs themselves.
  
  No one is cheering for the war, no matter how many times you say it.
  People may cheer for Ukrainian independence, or for their victories, but no one wants the war to continue. The war can end today, if only Russia decides to give back all the land they took by force, including Crimea.
  You're building a strawman.
  
  They're a bunch of cold war boomers they don't give a fuck about Ukrainians and they're not progressive in the slightest.