Microsoft to stop forcing Windows 11 users into Edge in EU countries
Microsoft won’t say why this change is limited to EU markets.
I'm under no illusions that Linux is a viable alternative for everyone, but if you're just using your computer as a web terminal and light gaming system, a decent Linux system + Steam makes for a very usable option these days.
I have exactly one computer in my house that has Windows on it. It was provided by my employer, and I turn it on maybe once every two weeks or so, for special-purpose activities that can't be done on my Linux laptop. And most of the time, for most activities my Linux laptop is the clearly superior performer - it's not even close, despite their similar hardware specs.
I don't think everyone should - or can - switch. But if you've got an old beater laptop gathering dust, try popping Ubuntu or something on it, see how it performs. See if it's something you could legitimately switch to full or part time.
Is Linux still a good option for gaming if one were to not purchase games?
Yes, you can either add the game as a non-steam game and force proton, or use Lutris or Bottles (with proton or other WINE runner). For repacks with installers, you can launch the setup.exe with Lutris or Bottles (install the game to 'fake' drivec and move it), just make sure you include dependencies that require it (usually .net framework).
Source: most of my steam library on my steam deck is plundered loot
Linux is paradise when it comes to emulation 🎮
not purchase games?
😏
Sure. I've run several modern ... repurposed... games and it usually works through lutris.
At this point in time, I only occasionally have mild issues with newest games, because Wine is a continuously developed software, and games with an annoying anticheat, such as Destiny 2 or R6 Siege. Everything else just runs, including older games, that don't even run on Windows, or titles you had to sail the seas for
Yeah it’s great. Bottles is the best tool imo, lutris almost feels like a relic from the early days of Linux gaming, and non-steam games in steam don’t always work exactly how you might want, and aren’t so much fun. There is also heroic games launcher now which lets you add custom games and is also a very nice option if you don’t use gnome (bottles is a gnome style app so it may look out of place elsewhere). I would put some thorough research into VPNs if you torrent though because the one I used on my Linux box (expressvpn) leaked my ip at some point and I got a letter in the mail.
I'm a gamer. I've used Windows since the 95 days. I'm done with Microsoft. I was not happy with Windows 10 and the bullshit they introduced but there is no way in hell I'm signing up for Win11.
Steam has made a lot of progress with Proton. My next computer will be Linux-based.
It's getting pretty easy to ditch Windows these days. Microsoft got too greedy and desperate, and actually using the damn platform they built is getting harder and harder, especially if you don't want the nagging and annoyances that come from them trying to turn your computer into their subscription revenue stream. My impression is that Valve is aware of the problem, and wants to make sure that their store works regardless of which operating system you prefer.
You'll be just fine. So long as they fix the issues with anticheat software at some point. Gaming on linux is great these days in most cases though.
Yeah this is so true. I have a gaming laptop with Linux on it and a steam deck. If it doesn't run on Linux, I don't buy it. The problem is that strategy isn't really saving me any money these days.
There's a real sense of relief whenever I close my (work) windows laptop and open my personal Pop_OS laptop... and then start up Baldur's Gate.
I've been primarily a Linux user for several years now and it seems like Windows is just getting worse and worse in terms of user experience. I fear the day that my company wants everyone to move to Win11.
I'm just hoping 12 is better.. somehow.. and soon? I loathe 11.
Give me GOG Galaxy and Path of Exile on Linux and I would install it now. Last time I wanted to switch, I installed everything I needed, went to download GOG and remembered why I switch back last time. :(
You don't need GOG Galaxy. I play my GOG games through Heroic Games Launcher on my Artix Linux system.
Path of Exile is rated Gold on ProtonDB and according to reports works out of the box through Steam Proton.
I use Lutris to install my GOG games, Battle.NET, EA launcher, and Ubisoft Play. It's a very simple solution.
I use heroic launcher, works perfectly for me
If everyone swapped to Linux, how quickly do you think it'd be as viable as Windows?
The problem with Linux as a desktop is that all the money and investment goes into server use cases. There really aren’t many companies investing into the desktop. I think Valve might he the only big company with a major interest in it, but they’re mostly focusing on their own closed ecosystem. It’s the classic chicken and egg problem.
So if magically we see desktop usage go up, investment will go up, and we’ll see much more momentum.
Regarding viability though, I think that’s not going to be solved with more investment. The problem is the millions of people making trillions of documents in MS Office. Microsoft goes out of their way to make it extremely difficult for competitors to achieve 100% compatibility. Unless that changes through regulation or something (since it’s clearly anticompetitive), I don’t think the hypothetical linux desktop wave will survive very long.
Adobe, Autodesk, and a few others are also at fault for not supporting linux, but that’s a different issue. They’ll go where the money is, and if Linux usage goes up, they’ll have to support it or risk losing their strong market positions.
It’s all an annoying chicken and egg problem.
How or why does Linux have a higher performance for you?
A lot of responses and none of them are false but the main reason for the improved gaming performance is DXVK, it translates DirectX 9 and 11 to Vulkan and is used by default on every DX9/DX11 game on Linux when you use Proton.
The Vulkan stack on modern GPUs is much more optimized compared to DX9 and 11. It has gotten so bad that many Windows people use DXVK on Windows to solve performance issues and even Intel uses DXVK (or similar technology) for their Arc GPUs.
not OP but similar situation. My Linux desktop is just more snappy, despite being 5 years old (and the work Win11 laptop brand new). I already have customized with my shortcuts and apps. I don't have to listen to the fan spinning up every time I open a new window (exaggerating a bit, but not much). Also I am not tied to work filters. If I want to read the news online for 5 minutes in a coffee break I don't risk being monitored and potentially evaluated. But really, I've been a Windows and Linux user for 20-odd years. I've always found that Linux installed on the same hardware of Windows is just smoother and faster. Windows is getting so much bloatware (from MS or enterprise apps) that it doesn't even have a fighting chance.
Most desktop environments are really efficient at what they do and minimize the background resources they take. Just checked my system and GNOME takes 350MBs RAM (700MB including gnome-software) and literally 0.0% CPU, it's insane. I looked up Windows 11 and it seems like it can use up to 4 GBs (!) of RAM all by itself.
My comment isn’t really a viable argument but I’ve been thinking about how an advert for Linux would be:
“The top 500 supercomputers in the world run Linux, don’t you want to feel like having a supercomputer at home? Why wait? Get your Linux for free today!”
Not really to be taken seriously, but if you want a real argument and example:
My laptop is really laggy with windows 10, and it came preinstalled with it. Recently I tried dual-booting Linux and Windows, and Windows was simply too slow. I am so accustomed with Linux’s speed that I wiped Windows off it. Never again.
I'm gonna ride out Windows 10 since I've got it behaving and I'm lazy. But if Windows 12 is just like Windows 11, or worse, I'm switching to Linux and figuring out how to get a vGPU VM up and running for when I have to run something on Windows for one reason or another. I messed with a vGPU in Hyper-V on Windows and was amazed by how seamless the performance was compared to other VM GPU acceleration options. I found a project to do something similar on Linux, so I'm gonna mess with that. If I can get it running as well as I've seen in some videos, I won't need a bare metal Windows install anymore.
@kescusay Just out of interest, what are the "special-purpose activities that can’t be done on my Linux laptop" if you don't mind sharing?
Running AAA games with kernel level anti-cheat (aka malware) would be an example.
Windows-exclusive software like some ERP client, specific hardware drivers etc. Also, there's no real alternative for Excel, unfortunately (LibreOffice isn't good enough).
For me, there are a few work-specific tasks that require our Windows-only VPN client in order to perform them. Fortunately, the bulk of my job isn't like that.
Ironically enough, some of the Linux certification exams only work on Windows and macOS.
Linux needs a Chrome OS type thing but FOSS with steam and it'll be the best version for most users, and if it's configurable unlike Chrome OS it'll even serve power users
(Chrome OS was actually really good imo, especially with their container method of running Android and Linux apps, but they moved it to VM, and it's not as good functionally for some reason)
And you can put windows in a virtual machine for edge cases for most use cases. Use Linux for everything else.
For most things I fully agree, unless it's for windows specific applications that don't exist in other platforms.
What about Nvidia drivers for games?
Nvidia drivers work fine, they always have (I’m using a 4090 on my fedora workstation). This is a common misconception.
Nvidia’s drivers are a problem because they are not open source. This creates headaches for developers and the community at large. But for end users, they work just fine. Nvidia doesn’t just dump untested code on the internet and call it a day, they have full time staff dedicated to building and testing linux drivers.
One recent problem is that the current latest driver is not compatible with Starfield. This is a common occurrence even on windows, and is why Nvidia and AMD regularly release “game ready” drivers before a major game launch. On Windows, Starfield crashed with the latest AMD driver for the same reason.
Since it isn’t open source, our only option is to wait for Nvidia to release a new version. If it was open source, the community could fix the issue immediately without having to wait.
These days, they're working fairly well (at least for me). I play some reasonably graphics-intensive games and they perform well. Not the really high-end stuff, but games like The Entropy Center, for example.
"Microsoft forced to stop forcing Windows 11 users into Edge in EU countries", would be a more descriptive title.
But the multinational hyper-conglomerates are our friends and the most efficient use of capital!
Can they do the same for Google recommending Chrome?
This. Current title is misleading.
now do the rest of the world.
That's nice for the EU folks, elsewhere Microsoft has doubled down on this practice.
If I were on a court or jury, I would rule that repeatedly showing an annoying pop up until you press Agree, doesn't count as actual acceptance of the terms, I don't care what the rules are but fuck that practice.
I've just doubled down on not using Microsoft tbh. I shouldn't have to spend so much time and effort cleaning a clean install of an OS. And have updates change things so they don't work the same or at all any more, or you just can't find them. Fuck that.
Didn't this all get decided legally like two decades ago when Microsoft tried to do the same kind of thing with internet Explorer?
how do I set my version to European
better question is, how do I set my american to european?
American folks really need to fight for their rights
The change for EEA users doesn't even work currently, so no one actually knows. I have a $50 bounty out though to figure out what's needed once it does work though.
What setting can I put in to make Windows think its in the EU?
This may or may not help you, I don't have a Windows 11 install to try: https://www.elevenforum.com/t/change-country-or-region-geographic-location-geoid-in-windows-11.4034/
In America, software owns you
Pretty sure USA has it the worst when it comes to MS shennenigans.
We get fucked on consumer protections in general.
That is why third party add-ons have become required for usability since Win8. Classic shell or Startallback removes all the bullshit "improvements" and makes the system work smoothly.
The only issue I run into is the occasional "Use Edge" bullshit they push out. It's more of an annoyance than anything else.
MS is not the only one with the shenanigans. Every tech company is pushing garbage on their customers.
I swear I spend way too much time disabling the shit that the companies want me to use, so I can use the stuff I do.
Not even MS alone, it seems that my American colleagues are vendor locked in several different ways. It's a bit bewildering honestly.
Yep. I remember some of my coworkers used to laugh at me saying "What bloatware? I don't have any, nor the ads. We've used the same images, so it must've been something you've done yourself".
Turns out that's because I chose en/us during installation process and our region didn't have preinstall deals... yet. Now, they too can enjoy self-installing candy crush and literal KGB spyware.
This except it’s not limited to software. We exist at the whims of corporations.
When you don't control your software, your software controls you, or something like that
Goddammit, now I'm even more disappointed in the UK doing a Brexit....
Ah damn! I missed out as I am using Pop OS. SWORRY!!
Don't worry. They make Edge for Linux too.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/2/22759123/microsoft-edge-linux-stable-channel
Who in the everlasting fuck would for what Jesus on a pogostick reason install edge on Linux?
That is just sick
That is like walking in on a church mass with "the exorcist 2973" blasting from your mobile phone
I'm sure Microsoft had it out there for someone but again... Who..?
I feel like I need to shower
Which is useful for using the Xbox Cloud thing on Linux.
Also, it works as the one Chromium based browser I occasionally need for sites built by idiots.
Cute.
I didn't even want the windows search results to include web links in the first place....
There’s just a teeny tiny problem with that; disabling web search renders Search unable to do maths.
It’s not an issue for me since I use PowerToys to get Spotlight-esque search in Windows, but it’s nevertheless hilarious.
macOS search is so much better than Windows search it’s not even remotely close.
Thanks!
I haven't used the windows search since forever, but if I ever need it again I'll keep this is mind if I see the web results still bothering me.
Too late, I already shoved Linux Mint into my new gaming laptop and I'm glad I felt forced to do it, I'm having my first serious dive into Linux and I'm thrilled about my newfound project! I was so surprised over how very little knowledge you needed to have games running these days.
If you are having battery life problems like I was I would recomend using powertop or tlp
Thanks, it feels much better already, I will check it out!
Ha I did the same and jumped to mint also. Windows got so damn laggy such a shitty OS.
Round and round and round.
It's the same all over again. MS got a slap on their wrists with the browser choice tool they had to introduce in Windows 7.
Then everyone forgot about it and they started forcing Edge on users. Now they get a slap on their wrist again and the same will happen in another 10 years.
Don't get me wrong, it's really awesome and I'm glad that EU regulations actually have a impact. But I still wish for more, more permanent and stricter anti monopoly laws.
They won't get anything much harder than a wrist slap because Edge is not the dominant browser right now. Google just had a much hasher punishment with Android and Chrome
Now do cross-platform messaging next!
I mean they can require it if they want. Apple would just bury the fact that it exists and would use something that's known to be shit. Idk how they could be forced to make iMessage cross platform.
Here we go again, MS already lost a US federal lawsuit for the same thing but with Internet Explorer.
Sadly, they didn't lose. They almost lost, appealed and ended up with a settlement which didn't require removing IE from Windows or prevent tying other software to windows.
On November 2, 2001, the DOJ reached an agreement with Microsoft to settle the case. The proposed settlement required Microsoft to share its application programming interfaces with third-party companies and appoint a panel of three people who would have full access to Microsoft's systems, records, and source code for five years in order to ensure compliance.[29] However, the DOJ did not require Microsoft to change any of its code nor did it prevent Microsoft from tying other software with Windows in the future.
Yeah I definitely remember that in the news as a teenager...and then I remember everybody kinda shrugged their shoulders and forgot. And now Bill Gates = zoomer jesus after 20 years of PR work to turn his image around.
Too late. I work with Microsoft professionally, but I'm about to install Linux Mint privately.
I use Fedora with KDE, and Steam/ Bottles apps to run the games, and that works great.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Windows 11 continued this trend, with search still forcing users into Edge and a new dedicated widgets area that also ignores the default browser setting.
Microsoft’s Teams changes are designed to avoid further antitrust scrutiny, after the European Commission opened a formal antitrust investigation into Microsoft’s bundling of its Teams software with the Office productivity suite in July.
The EU’s investigation was sparked by a complaint from rival Slack, which alleged that Microsoft had “illegally tied” its Microsoft Teams product to Office and is “force installing it for millions, blocking its removal, and hiding the true cost to enterprise customers.”
Microsoft initially made it difficult to switch default browsers in Windows 11, triggering complaints from rivals before the company eventually backed down.
It’s hard to imagine that Microsoft is making these Windows 11 changes specifically in EU countries out of choice, though.
Platforms like Windows will be required to meet a slew of interoperability and competition rules, including allowing users “to easily un-install pre-installed apps or change default settings on operating systems, virtual assistants, or web browsers that steer them to the products and services of the gatekeeper and provide choice screens for key services.”
The original article contains 479 words, the summary contains 193 words. Saved 60%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Yay. Still have removed it forcefully.
... and didn't miss it ever since. 😊
Not even going down that track, I've been messing with Linux for 15yr and happy to say about 2yr ago switched to Linux mint daily driver and not going back. Can do everything I need to:
Work (teams, prospect mail for Outlook, zoom, etc)
Gaming (Steam and Proton make playing 95% games a reality and actually works great surprisingly)
Music Production (Bitwig - truly awesome DAW very comparable to Ableton live - no BS actually is a TRUE contender and great and stable DAW, by far the best ever used in Linux)
Windows 11 can suck it
I tried to but it's still too janky for my taste. Every bigger update breaks something (I am lucky if it doesn't break the OS as a whole which happened few times). For gaming I have issues with alt-tabbing stuff that's completely janky for ages and I find that function crucial to consider it as a gaming OS.
I love EU
I started clapping with a smile and then I said, good for eu but I live in canada lol.
For everyday user (browser, light office, photo management, tv/movie streaming) it is already as viable as windows as a daily driver.
Once it is installed and up and running. But then most windows users haven't installed windows themselves so that is almost a moot point. It is first when you get into "specialty" software linux viability drops.
Maybe because of DSA?
DMA actually.
This is good. But they need to target google and chrome next.
Meanwhile, they did this another nearly a decade while one of the first things the EU did was tell Microsoft to stop being assholes and forcing Internet Explorer on everyone.
It was already insane the EU had to RE-legislate phone makers not to be assholes with proprietary connectors, as this was already done 2 decades ago too.
![[HN] Microsoft to stop forcing Windows 11 users into Edge in EU countries](https://radiation.party/pictrs/image/2758e19a-b184-4ca7-a8ed-9337d269d035.jpeg?format=webp&thumbnail=196)
![[VERGE] Microsoft to stop forcing Windows 11 users into Edge in EU countries](https://lemmy.uhhoh.com/pictrs/image/5ffb8228-2bc1-4b9b-86d5-81ea3fec1d6f.jpeg?format=webp&thumbnail=196)