Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

Regarding Nurse Chapel almost dying - this is one of the TV/movie tropes that I think is such a cheap and terrible device and I am tired of it. Discovery was full of these scenes where they make you believe a main character really almost died, only to survive after all, and having their crew mates weep for them (I am looking at you Burnham). There are much better ways to create good drama.

It makes even less sense on a prequel show where you know the characters are for sure around longer.
I’d normally agree with you but I don’t think they were trying to fool the audience in this case. It was more about showing Spock’s emotional reaction.

Still, there’s better ways of showing that than the almost dying trope.

spoiler

Nurse Chapel is in TOS - so there wasn’t really any risk that she was going to die here.
@triktrek Oh, boy - Can we talk about “Picard”?! Data dies in Nemesis, a great and noble sacrifice. Which is then diminished, because we brought him back for Picard! The staff didn’t think the Nemesis sacrifice was a worthy sendoff, or perhaps *they* wanted to do the sending off. So we’ll kill him again, this time with feeling! But, season three, the old gang is all getting together again. Maybe we can resurrect him one more time? (I’m aware of the supposed differences, but really. It was Data.)

And they killed off Picard! Another great and noble sacrifice! But no, not really, let’s bring him back as an android, you’ll never notice the difference! 🙄

It’s really at the point where a character's death is robbed of all drama, because there's always a way to resurrect them. It was a dream, they were in the Mirror universe, the mycelium network made a copy, etc.

Pelia is like "I have been alive for hundreds of years and I'm going to make that everyone else's problem."

Ortegas inverted her controller settings as everyone should 🎮

Honestly Inverted Stick for Flight controls makes so much more sense on controller because that's what you would do with an actual flight stick

I am 100% here for the chaotic energy that Carol Kane is going to bring to this show.
The Klingon captain had exactly the right amount of swagger and sassiness that a TOS-era Klingon captain is supposed to have. I'm glad that they're moving on from some of the Discovery Klingon characterization while also resisting the urge to jump right to them behaving like TNG Klingons.

Hemmer was my favorite character from season one, and is very difficult to replace in my heart. But Carol Kane is one of those actors you just can't help but love to see on screen (in any capacity). It's going to be very hard to be upset knowing she'll be around.
- I do wish we were able to keep Hemmer around longer.

I loved that they gave Dr. M'Benga some screentime front and center and showed that he can throw down if necessary, even if it was with the help of some super serum stuff. And while I even loved his (and Nurse Chapel's ) elaborate fight scene and enjoyed the way they filmed it, I'm also not sure if it quite fits with Star Trek. Just not sure yet with the excessive slow motion. The camera angles however were some great artistic choice. But overall one great start to season 2.

I thought the fight scene was kinda out-of-character for a doctor and a nurse. If anyone would have an inherent respect for life and health of other beings, you'd expect it to be medical workers: beating them up is just highly unethical. Why couldn't they have used subterfuge to achieve the same goals?
- He might be doctor, but he also served in the war and from what it looks like the front lines. Same goes for the nurse.

I think this got things off to a reasonable start, but it doesn't feel like the strongest episode out of the gate. Maybe it's because the show deliberately chooses not take on the cliffhanger of the last season in the first episode. Starting the season with only part of the cast undertaking the mission I think also makes the episode feel a bit slight.

It's also a bit of a darker episode than the last season, but I'm not sure if engaging with the Klingon civil war aftermath is actually necessary in this episode. In fact, leaving out the Klingon stuff here would make it a bit less stodgy to me. I guess there is some curiosity as to what SNW characters were doing during the war, but it really feels like here, the only reason they framed this entire episode around the war was so that M'Benga and Chapel could juice themselves up with a substance that they never quite introduce before using it and Die Hard Klingons for a chunk of the episode. There's maybe some M'Benga trauma, but giving the character another trauma moment where some (particularly Ortegas) remain comparatively lightly characterized feels...meh.

It's probably all the Discovery elements, both in plot and in set design on screen, that make me feel this way, but I was hoping that Discovery would learn the best lessons from Strange New Worlds. This episode has me slightly worried that instead of that, Strange New Worlds may be learning some bad lessons from Discovery. That said I'm hoping things get better across the season. I thought this was good but just not quite what I wanted from the season opener.

Upon further reflection, I feel like this episode undermines the plot of "The Galileo Seven". Spock is a very able commander in 2x01 when years later he struggles on an away mission…

I'm so happy to have SNW back. Whoever decided to put Carol Kane in the show needs to get a raise; she is absolutely spectacular. I'm very curious to see where her character goes.

I enjoy the idea of Spock being more emotional it really puts it into perspective that Vulcans have emotions they just try to keep them under lock and key and Spock being half human is having a harder time with that compared to most Vulcans is... relatable.

I did not like weird green super power drug that Chapel and M'Benga took to fight the the Klingons. It came from no where, the shot on the eyes right out of Dread made me think it was literally Slo-Mo from that movie. It really wasn't necessary, they could have just grabbed phasers somewhere instead.

I'm not realy sure how I feel about them using the term false flag in Star Trek. The plot makes sense but still it's a very charged term today.

My gut feeling is that with a couple changes this episode would have hung together better-

Have them take a shuttle instead of the Enterprise. This lowers the stakes for our command crew and simply makes more sense than half the crew (that wasn't on leave) agreeing to steal a ship. It also means they need to figure out a different way to deal with the fake Federation ship at the end of the episode is some way other than 'shoot it with bigger guns'
Have Chapel and M'Benga do something within their character strengths to escape instead of magic drug that lets them hand-to-hand fight their way through a dozen or more Klingons.

That said, there were a lot of things I DID like about the episode, including the Klingon Captain at the end and the new Chief Engineer.

@StreetcornPips @startrek I like the shuttle idea. I almost stopped watching when Spock said, “steal the ship,” and then again when everyone said “Hunh. Okay!” It always kills me when a story revolves around an organization as large and powerful as the Federation allowing stuff like this (or the myriad of examples of rule breaking, insubordination, etc.) to happen.
- If there's one thing that is consistent about the Federation show-to-show and season-to-season is that they pretty much always allow officers to break literally any of the rules as long as the outcome is good. How many times has a ship been stolen for a rescue mission, orders been ignored, senior officers been bamboozled and sidelined, and it's almost always totally forgiven because it turned out OK in the end. Hell, Janeway straight-up murdered Tuvix as he begged for his life and everyone was like "oh, um, fine?"
  
  I used to think it was lazy writing, but now I think it's actually just the way the Federation is characterized. The Federation being theoretically utopian and egalitarian but functionally utilitarian makes things like Section 31 make sense, the same way that TNG Klingons claim to be about honor but really they're treacherous schemers no better than any other species.

Thoughts and observations written as I watch- I'll be putting this on both Reddit and Lemmy, since infinity diversity/infinity combinations:

Wheeee, NCC-1701 in the Star Trek tag!
Previously: Last season happened.
Little ships flying!
Wonder who the lawyer that Una and Pike have tried to reach is.
Oh, hey, the Vulcan musical instrument whose name I can't remember!
“Fascinating.” “Isn't that usually his line?”
The fellowship on archeological medicine? Is that a reference to Dr. Korby?
“We must steal the Enterprise.” Buddy, if I had a nickel every time someone had to steal the Enterprise, I'd have several nickels.
Lt. Mitchell gunning for series regular next year with how much screen time she's had early on this episode.
Okay, having Carol Kane is already paying dividends.
And, yeah, Carol Kane doesn't need alien makeup to be an alien. She's already an alien.
I'm still not sure if the emphasis one the warp catch phrase is amazing or annoying, but this scene was funny.
KLINGON UPDATE: RIDGES!
So clearly La'An's augmented ancestors were genetically engineered to drink a lot. Which, y'know what? Fair.
Ah, the borderlands, where utopian rules go away and everyone becomes a Ferengi.
Congratulations to Uhura on graduating from the Academy.
Ah, the old "I have technology that I'm totally not making up that will blow you up" bluff!
New transporter chief?
Okay, so the angry borderlands people are trying to do some sort of false flag thing.
Redundant Klingon organs, the old standby.
Roided-up doctors can tell you what bones they broke as they break them.
These are obviously Discovery sets.
This action scene, while well-done, is way too long.
A D7!
“We've gotten out of worse.” “No, not really!”
“This I've got to see!”
I wonder if “Lanthanite” is a synonym for “El-Aurian”
Pelia knowing that being on the Enterprise means adventure is further proof that those ships are goddamn weirdness magnets.
Gorn. Yes, it stretches canon but fuck it the Gorn are awesome we'll come up with an explanation later.
“For Nichelle”
Overall, while not one of the better episodes, it still was a good start to the season. It wrapped up one of the hanging threads of last year (La'An), we continued to see some of Young Spock's struggles with his emotions before he became the more-Vulcan Spock that Nimoy was in the main TOS series, and we got our first look at Carol Kane as the nutty new engineer. Overall, I'll call that a win!

“For Nichelle”

I cried. I also teared up a little bit when Celia briefly channeled Nichelle early on in the episode.

Really delighted with this episode.

No complaints. Can’t really buy into the nitpicks on this one. It seemed completely Trek, and gave many of the ensemble their moments to shine. Production design gorgeous, virtual staging more seamless, costumes excellent, vfx great.

I like how M’Benga has hoarded the green vial as part of his lingering trauma. Better, we finally see a physician giving himself the juice instead of Kirk or some other command officer. In fact, one has to wonder if McCoy carried a stash provided by M’Benga.

Spock’s unresolved feelings for Chapel are well crafted and mirror the lingering pain we see her left with in TOS. It makes those scenes with Chapel in TOS comprehensible instead of cringe-inducing.

Enjoyed pretty much everything in this episode except the magic super steroids. The sequence went on for so long.. I assumed that I had forgotten something from last series because there’s no way they would have had this to hand the whole time and never thought to use it during any one of the many life and death emergencies?

That aside. Loved the rest of the episode and looking forward to where things go from here (plus really really happy to have weekly Trek again!)

there’s no way they would have had this to hand the whole time and never thought to use it during any one of the many life and death emergencies?

Ah, yes, the star trek classic!

I do agree, though. It was too long and too effective. A quick burst to make their way past the medical guards and into a turbolift would have been more believable and better paced.
- I want to see some serious side effects from that play out to explain why people don't use it more often.

So, bit of a mixed bag. I enjoyed Spock smashing bloodwine, and the general idea of the plot, decent Klingons etc. I did not enjoy unexplained spacewar drugs, feels like a very non-Star Trek thing.

That being said, I really wish they would stop harping the "do the thing do the thing" angle every time anyone sits in the Captain's chair. It's been in every show now and it's just such a tired and stale joke that it's moved over time from being funny, to tiring, to outright annoying.

To add to this, I think I've formulated my total issue with the angle a bit better. The whole stealing the Enterprise plot was done incredibly casually, and I think they could have used the time they wasted on The Joke They Always Do (which was quite a bit, this was a notably long one) to make that whole sequence a bit more inspired.

Additionally, I really wish productions would talk to each other more. This joke was literally in the last episode of Picard and the first episode of SNW. Assuming you watched no Star Trek inbetween this is back-to-back The Joke.
+1 for the complaint on the 'do the thing' comment. I feel like it's because engage/make it so have become somewhat of a meme from Picard in TNG and they're looking to replicate that.

But the idea every captain has their thing is one seemingly from the new Treks. In the past series, engage is used frequently by Kirk, Janeway and Sisko. (Kirk also frequently uses warp speed Mr sulu, ahead warp factor 1, take her out, first star to the left and straight on till morning etc.) They've been really pushing 'let's fly' from Discovery, but it's a terrible line and trying to force it just makes it cringy. I wish they'd used that time to expand the stealing the Enterprise plot a little more.
The big problem with the joke here is it’s totally the wrong moment. They’ve disobeyed orders and “stolen” the enterprise but haven’t actually gotten away yet… don’t just sit there messing around!

WE ARE BACK!!!! :D

I feel like I have waited so long and it was worth it, while at first I wasn't bought entirely on the action, it really came together at the end.

I loved the entire part of Spock stealing the Enterprize for the first time of many and April's unintentional implications for the future. SNW keeps proving it has the Trek energy, yes it might stumble some, I can understand questions about magic steroids (it's a bit out there even for me but I am also surprised it took this long to have it, but maybe its not meant for combat actually but some medical thing?)

But it doesn't change that the quality of this show is so high, this really manages to capture the feelings of the older series, DS9 and TNG but also with a certain high quality to it.

Loved seeing the Crossfield get another showing and how the D7 has become the mainstay. I like that we get some more traditional trek ships out there. That feel like the older ones.

Klingon blood wine drinking with Spock was amazing.

I also loved Pellia and haven't heard of the lanthenians before but something about the half crazy old lady character is just amazing.

I laughed so much, felt so much heart warming. But then also feeling my heart ripped out with the memory to Nichelle and seeing that she has passed. I remember reading it but had kinda lost track of it.

I am so looking forward to more episodes of this <3

Adding to green drug thing, as I don't know how to edit here. I could see it being something created maybe by M'benga or some angry, traumatized federation soldiers during the war to get back at the Klingon's, potentially being illegal in the federation but very localized here.
- Fyi, to edit comments, click on the three vertical dots at the bottom -- that will open a context menu that has the edit button in it: https://imgur.com/ftJ5HRO.

~~I'm not entirely sure if I have to spoiler tag this since this is in the discussion thread but I will anyways since the rule doesn't say the threads are an exception to the rule.~~ Edit: Thanks ValueSubtracted for the clarification on this.

Really disliked this one. And I loved just about all of season 1.

One of the main things for me is that the pacing felt far too quick.

For instance, when getting the injection of the super serum, they only briefly mentioned M'Benga's issue with it and quickly moved on without any sort of issues beyond that brief line.

I also have some issues with the characterization and general way the crew acted. They seemed a lot less professional in this and unlike an actual Starfleet crew.

Spock's emotional side, while I suppose justified in-universe, made him feel a lot less "Spock" to me. I was fine with his behavior in season 1 but this just feels a bit far, to the point of him being nearly unrecognizable. His "I would like the ship to go. Now" make me physically recoil in cringe with how unfunny I found it to be.

M'Benga and Chapel just beating up a bunch of bad guys three separate times felt incredibly unnecessary and I fail to see any sort of reason there couldn't have been some sort of clever escape rather than bland, mindless fighting. I think I skipped a whole minute total of them just punching the bad guys with how long the scenes drew on for. And the way M'Benga's issue with the super serum was just brushed over with a fleeting line came across as poorly executed.

La'an outdrinking a klingon seemed rather ridiculous and all I could think of was that it seemed like a bad D&D introduction to a stereotypical "cool" character. And then her burping? Did they really need a burp joke in this? It came across as uncharacteristically juvenile for the show.

That said, I did like a bit of it. Visual effects were great as always and I appreciated the slightly different intro. I'm glad the cliffhanger from last season both wasn't immediately resolved or dwelled upon too much. The false flag operation was a neat idea and it was cool to see yet another type of ship. The Klingons looked and sounded perfect and much more similar to how they were in 90s Trek, I'm glad the design was changed to this from their design in Discovery.

Overall, I very much disliked it, despite a few positive elements to it. No hate, I just disliked those parts of it I talked about.

Finally, this isn't any sort of issue I take with the show but they said that the false flag ship was Crossfield class. However, it didn't look anything like a Crossfield class beyond the ring in the saucer. Did Starfleet change the Crossfield class to a different design?

I agree with a lot of your concerns. Two medical staff taking drugs and beating a mob of Klingons senseless with little hesitation and no apparent ramifications is horribly, horribly out of tone with what I’ve come to expect from Trek.

Spock is another issue. I’m fine with him undergoing growth and having a full character arc - but I really don’t see this Spock becoming the one in TOS — a Spock who disobeyed direct orders from Starfleet and was reluctantly able to potentially kill two crew members goes on to have the disastrous experience as leader in the Galileo Seven? Best I can see is he actively goes as hard as he can on suppressing his human side in the near future but that wouldn’t make him suddenly forget what emotions, illogic, and all that human baggage feels like when he’s interacting with humans later in his career.

(And for the record - I really enjoy Ethan Peck as Spock and watching his struggles with his emotional control. I just don’t feel like it’s the same character as in TOS and don’t see how he’d get there.)
- Yes, this is my main complaint with this episode and SNW wrt Spock in general. I sort of get the idea that he's going on an arc from "Smiling Spock" in the cage to TOS, but it'll be a real weird kind of change over to TOS Spock IMHO from this. And like you said, how does he become the Spock in the Galileo Seven? At this point it sort of seems like he'd need a mind wipe or something...
  
  I certainly would have thought something like him saying "It is illogical to require "a thing" to carry out lawful orders lieutenant." and if pressed again something like "We do not have time to waste - carry out your orders".
  
  This "everyone has a thing" is stupid, and to do it in multiple series?
  
  And Spock's whole thing to continue to wait / worry about M'Benga and Chapel after saying their choice was logical didn't fit for me, nor did his reaction to Chapel. How does he go from that to TOS "ignoring/not noticing" Chapel's thing for him, and lack of interest in her?

I liked it, but it didn’t have enough Pike.

Always need more Pike!

Carol Kane is such a gem for this show, I can tell already.

She's so good! Already I really like her character!
- personally I find her gramma Addams act a little hamfisted, but maybe it'll make sense as the season goes on.

Blowing up a Crossfield class in an episode with real Klingons weeks after we learned of Discovery's cancellation feels quite loaded with subtext. Reminds me of DS9 blowing up a Galaxy class on screen within a week of TNG ending.

As someone who was once banned from the "subreddit" because I disagreed with the style choices of the STD Klingons, I finally feel vindicated.
I must have really zoned out toward the end of Discovery because I thought it was over long ago.
- Discovery has been cancelled!? I must have missed that somehow 😢, was still hoping for a season 6.

Is this post tagged NSFW for spoilers?

That was the idea. Is it having a visible effect?
- Loved the episod! Ethan Peck owned it and now I can't wait to see even more of Carol Kane's character.
  
  I am curious though, are the writers hinting at a future "Jekyll & Hyde" plot line when it comes to M'Benga and that green battle juice that he apparently keeps with himself at all times?

The M'Benga-and-Chapel-are-Max-Payne sequence went on far too long: only one group aboard the ship had weapons (and Stormtrooper accuracy) of any kind? I'd have preferred a stealthier sequence: after reprogramming the transponder, they use a series of Jeffries tubes to get to the airlock with the intent of opening it to escape but the ship takes off to ruin that plan.

Other than that, it was a decent episode to get the season going. Spock's emotional journey will be a focal point of the season, which I'm okay with. ~~SPECTRE~~ The Broken Circle Gang is probably going to show up again and I wonder if we'll eventually see some TOS villains retconned to be members. Carol Kane will be fun and with what was said of her species, I'm betting on her making at least two ENT references during the season.

Interesting that the false-flag ship is Crossfield-class: the saucer is a clear match but the drive section is completely different. Were the Discovery and Glenn modified from that spec to fit the spore drive research project or was the ship we saw a wartime refit of the class?

So Die Hard on a spaceship? We did that with Starship Mine already but I definitely wouldn't mind seeing it again. Is Starfleet's version of the Hippocratic oath "First, do no harm, unless you have to, in which case go hard."?

As for the Crossfield-Class, I thought it might either be that the classification of Discovery made them change the format of it for obfuscation purposes. Either that or they built that ship from salvaged parts from the war, and the saucer/transponder was from a Crossfield, and Uhura was simply reading from the transponder code the ship class.
Were the Discovery and Glenn modified from that spec to fit the spore drive

Yes. IIRC that was stated in of the first handful of Discovery episodes. (possibly the one where they encountered the Glenn?)

I must say I'm already a big fan of Pelia.

Agreed! Carol Kane is always fun to watch.
- @End0fLine @LibraryLass In my head, she is always in an unintelligible shouting contest with Andy Kaufman.

Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Strange New Worlds | 2x01 "The Broken Circle"