Is the fairphone really worth it?
The new fairphone 5 came out, it looks cool but the price is really, really high..
If it's a phone that can really last 10 years it could be good, but is that true? Is it worth it? I could get the one with /e/os from Murena because i want a degoogled phone with a bootloader locked, but is it usable on a daily basis?
I've had a Fairphone 4 for just under a year running CalyxOS, and I am very happy with it. Not sure when / if CalyxOS will be available for FP5, but unless they have locked down anything, I don't see why that shouldn't happen. If I understand your post correctly, it is already available with e/OS/?
Maybe the specs are underwhelming, but with the FP4, it does not affect me the slightest based on my use case. Phones are more than good enough already. I do not play any games on my phone. Camera could be better - maybe it is on FP5? Is it the perfect phone? Nope, but at the moment, I think our choices are too limited if you want privacy and repairability. Supporting a company that pushes these kinds of phone is also a reason I went with this phone.
Swapable batteries are nice - I've not made use of it yet, but I am planning on getting one or two spare batteries for travel to keep in a printed case. In the EU, this will be mandatory in the future, but first form 2027. Other than that, I am happy with the ability to buy spare parts if something breaks. I can't see myself ever buying something that is deliberately unrepairable again when there is no reason it should be. I don't mind the lack of 3.5mm-port, which I know irritates a lot of people. If you swear to this, I can understand that this is disappointing. There exists an adapter, but my experience with these kind of adapters is that they quickly wear out. That was my experience with the iPhone and Apple's own adapters at least. I burned through four in 1-2 years.
Running a Fairphone 4 with IodéOS (another de-Googled privacy focused Android) for close to two years now and I agree that it's a capable phone which doesn't limit myself in any way.
As you mentioned the biggest downside is the camera, which apparently has something to do with the firmware.
Edit: regarding the headphone situation: I'm using Austrian Audio (=former AKG engineering team) Hi-X25BT headphones, which are noticeably better than pods or cheap headphones and have been running well over a year now. They come with both (mini-)jack to USB-C and USB-C to USB-C cables, but I haven't tried the latter yet.
No.
No headphone jack, no buy. It's not a question of whether a headphone jack is useful to you, it's just the principle of it - there's no good reason to remove it (especially for the asking price of FP5), and more importantly, it goes against what the Fairphone stands for, IMO. I can understand if it were some other profit-driven company making a shrewd business decision, but for Fairphone to do it, seems very unfair to me.
There is a good reason to remove it. Especially for a company like fairphone. Why waste resources and money into making a redundant component (USB-C can do audio, also the majority of people have switched to wireless audio) when you're trying to make a planet-conscious product?
There is no good faith argument that can be made for the removal of the headphone jack. Companies removed it to sell overpriced wireless headphones.
They said it was due to size, but new phones are quite chunky these days so that's not true. Waterproofing? Can be done, many phones have waterproofing and a headphone jack.
Costs? Come on it's a very simple, very old, plastic bit.
And sustainability? "planet-conscious"? You must be kidding. It's way better to use regular headphones than the wireless pieces of crap with batteries and an amplifier and a bluetooth receiver in them.
majority of people have switched to wireless audio
Citation needed. Also, just because people have "switched" to wireless doesn't mean that they don't have a pair of old wired headphones still lying around somewhere, unused, eventually turning into e-waste. Also, I suspect a significant portion of Fairphone users are the kind who'd still hold on to wired headphones.
when you're trying to make a planet-conscious product?
The first rule in making a planet-conscious product is the RRR - Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. If people already have wired headphones, then the most eco-friendly solution would be to enable users to continue to use them, and not force them to buy even more new products. And as a manufacturer, there's practically no shortage of 3.5mm jacks around (plenty of old devices where the parts can be recycled from), and there's almost no complexity involved in wiring up or making circuitry for something that's been a standard for several decades.
Regarding the "no good reason to remove it," my understanding was that Samsung opted to remove it to increase the water resistance rating. Unfortunately the fairphone 4 only has an IP54 rating, so that's certainly not the case here.
Apparently they address the headphones jack question in an article on fairphone's support page.
Not arguing with you btw, but the excuses they've provided are all BS. For starters, IP rating isn't really an issue - the Pixel 5a, Galaxy A52, Xperia 5 V, Zenfone 10 - all have a headphone jack, and a minimum of IP65, even going up to IP68 (Pixel 5a), so that really can't be an excuse. Also, cost can't be an excuse either, considering the examples I've provided consists of both budget and premium phones.
The only answer that makes sense here is GREED. Nothing but plain and good ol capitalism at work.
i took a chance with the FP4 and bought it even though it has no 3,5mm jack. i absolutely hate it. if there's no headphone jack on the next model, i will have to switch to nokia or shiftphone.
"This phone has a port I'm not going to use & I'm angry out of morals"
I'm still on a CRT because most new TV don't have AVI for some reason, I convert AVI to HDMI on my CRT but its about the morals.
Those legacy connectors (AV, SCART, S-Video, RF Modulators etc.) have had a superior replacement with no compromises though, HDMI.
The 3.5mm jack hasn't really had a viable replacement IMO, and to be honest I don't think it needs one. Personally I use bluetooth headphones when I'm out, usually switching it off in shopping environments (see #1 below) but indoors everything is 3.5mm.
My main problems with the omission of the 3.5mm jack are...
My biggest issue though is the planned obselecence stuff. The tiny li-ion batteries in the buds being pushed by manufacturers as a "3.5mm replacement" are likely going to get their recharge cycles rinsed out with frequent usage, leading the consumer to buy new buds every 2 years, just like with phones. It's really disappointing.
I like a headphone jack and definitely prefer to have one but even to me that's a really fucking stupid comment!
Often a phone with no heasphone jack will offer a higher degree of waterproofing performance. Not the case with the Fairphone, I'm guessing because it's modular. But doesn't that mean I can add a headphone jack?
Personally, I don't want a huge hole in my phone and case that I'm never going to take advantage of. Wireless headphones with noise cancelling and such are far more convenient when outside than the open backs I use at my computer. The DAC in most desktops suck so I use a USB-C to 3.5mm anyways, makes it really easy to plug into my phone if I ever needed.
Just my opinion for my situation, but I would honestly rather buy the same phone without a headphone jack than one that did.
If you're not a power user, then it'll probably work fine for several years. And it will be cheap and easy to replace the battery in 3-5 years when it starts to degrade, or replace the screen if you drop it. Not sure if a full 10 year lifespan is realistic, though.
And you're right, the price is high, but it's not supposed to be an affordable phone. The stated goal of the Fairphone is to be better for the environment and better for people than most other electronics. So, they have to do things like use sustainable materials and source parts from places that treat their workers well. All of that means that Fairphones will NEVER be as cheap as other brands. Because doing things right costs more.
We’ll probably never be allowed Fairphone in USA, which I’ve been eying since before launch. Curiosity got the better of me anyway; it’s still cheaper than iPhone https://eu.mobgsm.com/mobile/apple-iphone-14-pro-max-price-in-europe
Do you not count the Murena partnership? I've been considering a Fairphone since I saw this.
The price feels really high, you're right. For me, it makes me think of why the rest is the phones are not more expensive. If FP5 costs this much with such underwhelming specs, but with a truly fair supply chain, then all other players must be cutting a lot of corners. I will must likely be getting a FP5 because of the statement. Just hope the camera is good enough that I can live with it for 10 years...
Ingl, I don't see the difference between phone cameras anymore. I mean, I do when I look very closely, but if I want a really proper photo, I use a standalone camera. (Or ask people who own lenses twice as expensive as my phone on their own.)
I suspect the question isn't just how sharp or high res or low distortion or whatever your pictures are, but how fast will the camera open and take a picture and how many of those pictures are good enough given the range of lighting and distance people want quick pics of.
If you miss a lot of shots because the camera is too slow or crashes or the files are blurry, text unreadable, out of focus, badly exposed... failures of any kind, then the camera is not usable. That's still not uncommon in phones.
Lots of people are starting to figure out how useful being able to take a picture at a moment's notice is.
then all other players must be cutting a lot of corners
I mean, I'm pretty sure other phone companies use child labor to harvest the raw materials necessary to produce their devices, so yeah, they are screwing over tons of people.
I use the FP3. It's an old device but I find it very responsive, and keeps up with what I need it to do personally. I like it, but don't like Android. I wish the device had more RAM though.
The FP5 looks promising (and big 😳) the only turn offs for me are no 3.5mm headphone jack, and the price could do with another 150-200 off at least. Since FP is a niche company with some special supply chain arrangements, I think this price is the best we'll get for now (unless you trade in an old device for recycling for money off), but it's still expensive.
If you value the ability to own and repair your device, the knowledge that people further down in the supply chain get paid a little extra when they're collecting materials for Fairphone, and that your device will very, very likely get supported for the full time they claim (and even longer in the case of the FP2), then it's probably worth it.
Otherwise, a new/recent Pixel (eligible to recieve GrapheneOS updates) is another very good option.
Regardless of what device you choose, if you want to keep your next phone for 10 years, you'll want a lot of onboard storage - but keep as much things as possible on an SD card. This is to avoid burning out your onboard NAND, since it has a finite lifespan and not replaceable.
Pixels don't support SD cards AFAIK, so if you go for one of them I'd recommend going for the highest builtin storage that you can afford (especially if it's a used one)
Another FP3 user here.
I wish the device had more RAM though.
I use lineageos with zram on mine. It works wonders
no 3.5mm headphone jack
Whaaaat? Why?
I'm not terribly familiar with the Fairphones, but are you able to upgrade the ram yourself? I feel like that should be a key part of the modularity concept.
Modern system on chip type processors and their RAM and even ROM are pretty rightly coupled. Modem also. Upgrade would essentially be a full board swap.
Which would be a neat feature, but probably hard to make happen.
Hopefully I'm not too late to say this: I would strongly caution against buying a Fairphone. My mum got a new Fairphone 3 in early 2021. Earlier this year, just after the phone went out of warranty, the USB-C port stopped working. The replacement bottom module was out of stock, it's been out of stock for months, and the forums are full of people complaining that it's been mostly out of stock since 2021. Fairphone claimed that they would have stock back by the end of August, and as of today, that is not true. This phone was supposed to have spare parts available through to 2025.
does the fact that they promise 8 years support now change your mind at all?
Did you read the comment you replied to? Fairphone may be well-intentioned but their promises don't mean much when they can't even fully support the phones they have out now
I bought the FP3, then upgraded it to an FP3+ when the camera broke. Never had as much fun with a phone before or since. It has been my daily driver for years and it did everything well enough, if a bit slow. My friends either get new phones or use them despite visible damage because they can't fix them. Now I ordered the FP5 to have the 3+ as a backup and test setup and I am confident I will use the FP5 for 3-6 years again :)
Fairphones are like an odd car: There are sleeker, faster, cheaper and maybe just better alternatives around. However you still like it and just learn where to hit it with a hammer when it starts making funny noises. If you can afford it and like odd devices, it's for you.
Don't hit your phone with a hammer please . 🤓
You can't tell me what to do!!!
...but it kinda makes sense, so I won't hit it with a hammer 😐
From a privacy perspective: no
From a fairness and repairability perspective: yes
Why is it bad from a privacy perspective?
check your most used apps here to see if they work with mircoG: plexus.techlore.tech
I've been using degoogled phones for years and I bareley have any issues. only issues are snapchat and google maps give warnings, but work. other google apps work fine.
It used to be you had to regularly do some convoluted workaround to get things working with microG, but that hasn't been an issue for me for years now.
yeah the fp5 is expensive, but hardware wise it's the first one I could actually see myself using as a daily driver. Considering that I'd probably use it for 3 years at least, the price isn't that bad either. However, I'd love to have a folding phone instead, but I'm pretty sure it'll take a few years until good degoogled roms are available for those. so yeah fp5 seems like a good transistionary device.
Depends on what you're using the phone for. Personally, my usage isn't very demanding, so having a phone that's going to have security updates and a replaceable battery will probably let me use the phone for 5+ years.
I probably won't keep the phone for 10 years, but it means I can upgrade on my schedule, not just because some company decided for me.
I can hear consumers now, “ But I want muh planned obsolescence!”
Since we are in a privacy subreddit, I will say that Fairphone is second only to the Google Pixel in terms of support for privacy focused versions of Android. For privacy specifically, they are a great choice.
Ahem, did you mean community?
Sorry...force of habit...
Soyuz...
Subreddit? You high man? Do you need some water? Have you eaten well?
It's about half the price of a flagship phone and projected to have 8 years of support. That seems reasonable.
It's too expensive for me. Not worth it when a used Pixel is way cheaper, has way better hardware and has support for GrapheneOS.
It might be expensive when you compare it to the lifetime of a regular phone, but compare it to what you'd spend instead on regular phones within the potential lifetime of 7-8 years of the FP5 (minus 1-2 minor repairs).
Also no one is talking about that fact that it's fair as in equitable. Like everyone who worked to make it got paid, which is not something you can say about any of the big phone makes AFAIK.
Got me a refurb pixel 5a last year for $100. It's been great and way better then my moto g power I had previously.
I second this. Got an open box pixel 6 pro this year for $400, still blows most non-flagship current year phones out of the water.
Nice, I got a renewed one from Amazon this year for $330. It was as good as new, no scratches whatsoever, battery health was at 99% and still had 3 months of warranty left.
I don't see it as being "out". The webpage only has a preorder option and I'll never preorder anything. I'd wait and see what the general consensus is before buying anything. Things can look good on paper. All that being said, if it's actually decent then it seems like a pretty good deal.
Ten years is an extremely long time in tech and we might not even be using phones as we currently know them by then.
It might not be. Consider that moore's law is coming to an end. I fully expect more and more products to be cloud based and ai based. I don't think ai can run on our phone even in the near future. Battery is another issue, you can't afford to run too much stuff on it.
We as consumers now need to adjust to the ending moore's law.
God I hope so. I'm sick of consumer tech constantly being in a marketing cycle
The new one is definitely too expensive for me. I have a phone that I'm not really happy with, but I'm keeping it for as long as possible. After that, I'm probably going to look for a used fairphone. I don't see myself going with another completely unrepairable device.
A second-hand phone is always worthier
Still using my 6 yo Pixel 2 XL with a custom rom. Not planning to change and I easily see how I can get to 10 years. For instance, the repairability allowed me to change a cracked screen, as it would be possible with the Fairphone.
Downscale your needs and you can easily do 10 years in my opinion!
I don't know dude, you can downscale your needs all you want but if you drop your phone on the ground and break the screen you can only hope there are third party manufacturer that still produces it or you can toss it away.
Most decent phones still have replacement parts available, though obviously they are not always identical in quality to the original.
I believe that the price is reasonable overall: it has good specs and now that FP is an established brand you know it won't go out of business and support will last. /e/OS has become good enough lately to be reliable to daily drive (it requires some initial adjustment, but nothing to be worried about).
Also, they are phones that withhold their value in the secondary market: a used FP3+ on ebay costs more than 400€ and it had a launch price of 439€, so you can easily sell them for a good price if you ever change your mind about owning one.
The only thing that makes me hesitant to buy one is the fact that now the EU is pushing a lot of consumer friendly laws, like mandatory USB-C, replaceable batteries, extended software support and so on... So in two or three years the smartphone market might offer more high-end products that are long lasting and have a more accessible price tag. It only depends on how much time can you wait.
Edit: added links to sources
I'm happy with mine.
Had the fair phone 4 since launch running e/os, then there was an update that was rinsing the battery so I went back to stock android. Performance just wasn't good on stock so i got fed up and got an s3 ultra. No more privacy but never had a better phone. Now the fair phone is just collecting dust; I like the idea of it but just needs a bit more juice
In theory,yes.
I won't buy it as my whole charging environment is wireless these days and the FP5 has no wireless charging.
Rolling back of course would be possible but annoying, especially for phone I would use for 5 years possibly.
It won't be as good as native hardware support, but you can buy a device to add wireless charging. It plugs into the phone USB-C and has a short flexible cable leading into a thin (1 mm maybe) wireless charger receiver that can fit inside a phone case
Yeah, had one of these for previous phones,but most don't fit properly with cases and if you need to properly charge the phone you are always fiddling around. Was not really satisfied with them.
Ive been wondering what stops people to mod their phone for wireless charging
From the tear downs I've seen with wireless charging it's actually a pretty sizable and complicated addition to just slap into a phone that's already had it's space optimized. I'm sure there's work arounds, but with so many various models and configurations I doubt you could create a one-size-fits all mod that would be popular/easy to implement.
I was made aware that at most its 5 years of security updates due to the QCM6490 and then software for the remainder. 5 years is still pretty good but at that price point I would wait to see what google has to offer and then use grapheneos if its an option.
Fairphone is still keeping the FP3 alive and the hardware support for that phone has long since ended. They promise to work around the lacking support for the drivers of the FP5 and I believe that they will.
They will issue updates. But they can't work around base firmware security issues. That's the problem. The SOC drivers are connected to everything, they have total control of the phone, if there's a security issue there it's game over. No amount of operating system patching is going to help you
Also, 5 years counting from where
10 years ago the Samsung Galaxz S4 released, let's compare its specs with the current phone
Samsung Galaxzy S4 <> Galaxy S23
Display size: 5" <> 6.1"
Resolutuion: Full HD <> 120hz 2k AMOLED
CPU: 4x1.6 GHz Cortex-A15 & 4x1.2 GHz Cortex-A7 <> 1x3.36 GHz Cortex-X3 & 2x2.8 GHz Cortex-A715 & 2x2.8 GHz Cortex-A710 & 3x2.0 GHz Cortex-A510
RAM: 2GB <> 8GB
Storage: 16-64GB <;> 128-512GB
The question is, do you want to run 10 year old hardware even if its software is supported?
Most of that progression was made in the first 5 years, the last 5 years for new phone tech have been a lot slower. I don't know if any spec in the next 5 will really make me want to upgrade, stuff just works atm
I feel like we reached the stage where any improvements are really just incremental and small, you used to get a massively different experience when upgrading your phone even just a year later in the early days, nowadays you can barely tell the difference between new and 5 year old models.
When we get in that state of a technology, we should definitely be looking at how to make our devices last longer instead of renewing yearly / bi-yearly.
That's not the question. There is no singular reason to buy the Fairphone 5 and a purchase is not necessarily a commitment to a full 8 - 10 years of use. Focusing solely on one aspect of the device, like its modular components or the long-term software support, is missing the bigger picture.
The newer hardware tends to usually have a longer lifespan. A 10-year old computer today is a 3rd or 4th gen Core i7, still decently powerful. A 10-year old computer 10 years ago was a Pentium 4, pretty much useless.
Same will apply to phones. I had an S5 that I bought in 2014 which by 2019 actually was getting too old, hobbled by it's paltry 2GB of RAM. Bought an S8 in 2019 which already was 2 years old and it's already outlived the S5 by almost 2 years. It's starting to show signs of age but will probably last at least another couple years. I'm expecting the S22/S23 Ultra to last into the 2030s.
So
Not that impressive for ten years of development to be honest. In addition to that there are limits to what is required for everyday usage. Not to make a "640k should be enough for everybody", but browser and messaging only requires a few GB of RAM and will do so for the foreseeable future. 8GB is future proof enough for the vast majority of use cases.
I have 2TB of storage in my PC. The actually important part (documents and programs) take up minuscule amounts of space. The remainder is for AI models, movies and games, all of which I could delete and download again.
Nope, can't find one here, first of all. And even if it were available here, I can just degoogle other model for much better price anyways.
The price, no headphones plug...
Doesn't seem fair to me to be honest.
Do not buy preloaded LineageOS or /e/ OS phones or any Android phones without proper Verified Boot support and firmware updates. These devices also have no way for you to check whether they've been tampered with.> from privacyguides.org
No it sucks don’t get it.
If you’re serious about privacy and can tolerate apple stuff, get an iphone. If you’re serious about privacy and would prefer android you’re pretty much stuck with one of the pixel phones and graphene.
I went with an iphone last time I made this choice. The degree of difference wasn’t enough for me and I keep an android device for stuff that requires it anyway. Your mileage may vary but my recommendation is to get the device with the widest install base if you want it to last. Something’s gonna break but getting parts will be easier for idk a nexus 5 or iphone se than a blue branded tablet.
If there is a phone on the market that could guarantee ethical labor but costs less than the fairphone, I'd buy that instead.
I'm very concerned about the low waterproofing and the lack of variety in phone cases.
De-googling my phone sounds nice but actually having a constant trace of my location provides a layer of safety and security, doesn't it?