Canada advises LGBTQ2 travellers to be aware of U.S. state laws

As a queer person, extending the acronym past what is necessary feels like pandering in the best light, and purposely trying to bait ridicule in the worst. The whole point of LGBT was to include anyone on the spectrum that was gay or trans, and the Q was supposed to include anyone who considers themselves queer, even if they don't meed those parameters. I can understand wanting to include I because intersex people are often left out of the conversation, and I even understand A because there is a lot of debate even within the LGBTQ community itself as to whether asexuals are considered queer or not. But when you start incorporating numbers, symbols, or extending past 5 letters within the acronym, you are defeating the purpose of having an acronym, creating confusion, baiting ridicule, and even making people not explicitly represented in the acronym feel excluded.

And there is already a single, all encompassing, inclusive, one syllable word that describes the community and all who occupy it: "Queer." It's easier to say, remember, and hell, even type if you are typing LGBTQ past 5 letters. But because of it being appropriated and used as a slur, there are many even within the community who are even afraid to utter it, let alone identify with it. Which is a god damned shame there is nothing inherently wrong the word, cause even in its original meaning, it meant someone who was outside the norm or otherworldly, and in literature has been used to describe characters like Gandalf, and characters in Shakespeare.

It describes me without having to explain or justify how or why. It describes how I feel as a person, how others see me, how I interact and relate to others. Its an adjective that can be verbed and adverbed. It's sharp and provocative, yet also warm and natural, like a forest green. People who have adopted and embraced the word for themselves feel the love within the word, and can extend it to others. And even for those outside the community, those who are brave enough to use it when talking in our defense come off as more decisive and confrontational, than the person who thinks adding another letter or number to the acronym will make them seem more legitimate.

It's time we stop fearing our word. It's time we recognize the difference between queer as an insult, and queer as a description of who we are, and we need to extend that to people who are willing to talk about us and our struggles or come to our defense. The word is only as evil as we are willing to reject it, and I will be dead in the ground before I let our word be the domain of queerphobes and bigots.

edit: It's late and I'm going to bed. Apparently some people think I'm a self hating queer for thinking the acronym should be dropped for an all inclusive term, and so be it. It's late and I want to get some sleep. And a lot of the people making this argument I know haven't read past the first paragraph, much less to here. Anything clarification they could want can be found here and in my other posts here. Otherwise, if they are not going to put in the effort to read, I'm not going to put in the effort to respond.

edit 2: I wanted to make a separate inclusion because I have had a chance to sleep and cool off, and I wanted to address some of the more combative posts in my replies: I get it. We as a community suffer attacks constantly, even from within the community, so I understand why so many here are on guard and skeptical of my intentions. And I'll admit, my post probably could be better written. I'm not exactly the best at articulating my thoughts. But the point of my post is not to exclude anyone from the community, but rather embrace a word that includes everyone. I would like to hear counterpoints to my argument, because maybe what I need is a different perspective on the issue. I would love to hear from people who prefer the acronym, and why they feel it maybe more inclusive. I am a flawed human being with many faults. I grew up in a conservative background, and my life up to this point has been trying to unlearn a lot of that. But I did not write this with the intention of excluding or singling out anyone. Forgive me I have done so.

Indeed.. all extending the acronym does is give the Far Right ammo for their unfunny "Alphabet Cult" jokes

At some point ya just gotta say "Look if you're not straight and not cis or just think that may be the case. You're in the club"
- some of my favorite ideas i've seen:
  
  the Queer community
  
  the non-cis non-het community
  
  the Pride community
i am really glad you took the time to put all of that into words. i, a queer person, agree completely.
I wish everyone was this rational
Extending the acronym to cover everyone is becoming ridiculous. I think we just need a word that covers all the bases rather than trying to shoe horn one more letter/number/symbol/wingding that's already becoming difficult to keep track of. It doesn't bring attention to any one group, nor does it help individual groups as a whole when you're summed up into a letter.
- There's something in the back of my head telling me it's not an acronym, is it?
  
  If it was it'd be pronounced ligbitikwitwo
I mean, I don’t identify as queer and plenty of my friends don’t. One of my exes did and great for him but this just seems like the wrong argument. There likely just needs to be a technical, non-inflammatory term.

I’m glad you like it though.
- The most all-encompassing term I've seen is sexual minority. Basically non-cis or non-straight
I hate labels in general. I'm in the Q part (enby) and I'm completely fine with it, I don't need my own letter, nor do I need to identify with anything.
Can we apply this logic to the flag as well? I thought the rainbow of the pride flag was meant to represent diversity and cover all orientations…like how a rainbow spectrum of light literally covers all colours. Now specific groups are being added and people are finding ways to add another line to represent something. The flag is a mess.
- I tend to think of the Progress flag as a product of the times, not as a replacement for the rainbow Pride flag. We added these additional signifiers specifically because those groups were under-represented or under particular attack, not because they aren't included in the Pride rainbow.
I know others do but I don't like the word queer. I say LGBT+.
My biggest qualm is a qualm I have with any acronym/abbreviation. If you're going to introduce a letter that is unknown to many, then define your term. Otherwise, I'm going to assume it's a typo, or I going to not recognize it.

All acronyms and abbreviations, or at least those that aren't commonplace, should be defined somewhere adjacent to their use, or else you are excluding people.

Speech/text is only useful if you're using it in a way that appropriately conveys a message to it's intended audience.
I've come to realize that whatever it is that causes people to have alternative sexual preferences, I've got a little bit of it. However, I'm heterosexual, so I don't really identify with the community. I could accept the queer label, though.
It is the intonation that matters more than anything else. The wording itself has very little meaning until it is meant as an insult or a compliment.
Can we make "gay" = happy again?
- I had a teacher in highschool (04-08) whose name was B Gay. In his lifetime Gay want from "happy" to a slur. Machine shop was the best because of him too
How to defeat a slur, take it as your own. It's simply as easy as that.

Growing up I was fat as fuck, people made fun of me all the time. One day I decided it was enough, I started making fun of myself for being fat, suddenly everyone left me alone because it no longer got the response they were trying to get.

Ignoring / getting angry is what they want, turn around and happily scream yeah I'm queer, ya looking for a good time? (For example) ya know what's gonna happen? Their gonna start stammering and come up with another way to bother you, and when you don't give in and don't show a reaction they will end up storming away angrily. Then you have something to laugh at for the rest of the day.

What the fuck do you think pride parades are for?

My grandfather got caught downtown Toronto in one and spent 2 hours throwing slurs. Ya think a single person in that parade cared?
- spent 2 hours throwing slurs
  
  Lmao "Grandpa how was your day?"
  
  "Pretty good actually. I spent 2 hours shouting slurs at strangers"
Two spirit is a native cultural thing and I think acknowledging it is a good idea. It used to just be LGBT, why should we stop expanding inclusion the moment you find a word you're personally comfortable with?
- LGBTQIAPDSMFC2..... at some point you've got to consider the cut off otherwise you might as well write out the whole alphabet.
  
  Queer is good to me as there's a difference between "Ben is queer" and "Ben is a queer"
- Better question: What makes you think they are not included in LGBT or Queer? Also, I know the inclusion of two spirits within the LGBT acronym is contentious with many native Americans as well. It's why the pride flag with the native American feathers is frowned upon at many queer events.
This is the same type of self hating bigotry that made the Bisexuals unwelcome at pride and transgender people shit on for 30 years.

Fuck you and anyone who thinks like you.
- For advocating for an all inclusive term rather than an acronym that can be chopped to exclude people?
  
  Yeah fuck me I guess.
- This is the brain of the terminally online
- I'm bi, I think you're insane.

LGBTQ2 - the long-awaited sequel.

Best thing since they announced pussy 2

There was a petition to offer refugee status to LGBT Americans put before the House of Commons recently, I just got an email update about it because I signed it, and apparently they accept some refugees on this basis, but it doesn't look like many. I say open the borders and bring me your gays, America. We'll be nicer to them than you are.

My fiance and I have been looking into moving to Canada. He's a librarian in a small town and things are not looking so great.
- It's really expensive unfortunately, but it's a hell of a lot safer by and large.
- Please promise to not vote for any Conservatives and we'll welcome you with open arms
I was born to go dance and cycle all over montreal. Im in a northern state, rural, fuck all going on here.
- To be honest a lot of Canada is very provincial in location and mental state. But at least we're mostly nice.
TERF Island is welcoming the whole LGBT?

The "2" is for two-spirited which is a traditional Native American concept and that is neat.

So no LGBTQ sequel? 😥 /j
What's wild about "two-spirit" is that it's not a really definite concept (that is, it is a neologism from 1990 that does not have a universal understanding among tribal traditions) but what it does accomplish is replacing the perjorative European anthropological term

slur

berdache, from Arabic burdaj "slave" meaning basically a young male submissive gay partner
- TIL that term is considered a slur. I remember learning about them in anthropology class ~15 years ago and that was the term used.
  
  So is the respectful terminology today to use whichever modern LGBTQ label is accurate, or should I use two-spirit in historical context?
I can't be the only person who gives zero fucks about a 2 spirit lol

Wow.. that #2 seems to have taken this article hostage.

Imagine if it were at the beginning like it is ually displayed in Canada.
Two-spirit, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, questioning or intersex - or 2SLGBTQI+ for short.
I assume they meant + and it's some kind of typo
- It's "two spirit", which is an indigenous term.

Damn. New version already?

There's a part 2 now? How much better is it? Or is the original always the best?

The first one did not become as popular as many people hoped. Yet, plenty remain hopeful that the imminent sequel faces less stigma.
laughs in Aliens and Terminator 2
- Aliens and Terminator 2 was really the surprise crossover hit of the decade.

OK, I can't keep up, what's the 2 mean? LOL

It means two-spirited and it's part of an Indigenous concept of gender and worldview.
- Thank you! 2 Spirited was my first introduction to what it meant to be Queer, and it's pretty cool to see this variation on the acronym.
It's more relevant for NA, it's an indigenous thing iirc.
You should look up Trudeau rattling off this acronym like it's nothing lol. He likely practiced a lot in the mirror

LGBTQ what now?

Two-Spirited. Apparently it's a Native American term used to indicate a third gender.

LGBTQ2: Electric Bugaloo

“Not all countries have the same values and legal system that we have in Canada. As a result, it is important for you to be informed about the legal framework and social customs governing sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression and sex characteristics in your destination country,” that page notes.

Wow, way to understate that. I suppose they have to downplay it though because if they were honest about the state of the US then they'd have to acknowledge that large swaths of the US can no longer be considered even remotely safe for members of the LGBT community. As such, they would have to consider the possibility that of members of the LGBT community might seek asylum in Canada and if so, that they could no longer turn them away on the basis that the US is a safe harbor (iirc many countries ban US citizens from seeking asylum because the US is supposed to be a "safe country").

Edit: Canada likes to claim that LGBT people from the US and UK can achieve refugee status, however the US-Canada Safe Third Country agreement says otherwise. Note that while there are exceptions to the agreement, none of them involve people who are members of the LGBT and/or BIPOC communities. In fact, it sounds like, based on the canada.ca link, that Canada recently expanded it to make it harder for people to claim refugee status if they're coming from the US, which is kinda the opposite of what they should be doing.

There's a chance that me and my sister might be fleeing to Canada if the situation gets bad enough even in the safer parts of the US, but even then, I know Canada has its own growing problems with fascism, and I'm looking into backup plans if things get bad enough there as well.

At the end of the day though, we may just run out of places we can run to.
- The fascists in Canada are just a vocal minority.
- Same. Tbh I fully expect that if I tried however, they'd just turn me back and cite the legal agreement that basically states that Americans can't be refugees.

I hope the new v2 update doesn't come with a battlepass.

Where can I find the patch notes?

I can't say I blame them.

There’s a sequel?

honest question, what's this "two-spirit" term? I can't find a straight forward explanation on the web

Two Spirit is a non binary identity with a specific cultural context within the history of indigenous peoples. In Canada, due to the increased focus on dealing with the reconciliation of Indigenous peoples the current Acronym is 2SLGBTQIA as it sort of symbolicly puts precedent on amplifying indigenous voices in the movement.
- That doesn't explain it at all. By this context the term could mean gay and native Canadian.
Most places in the world recognize two genders and their respective social roles: men and women. Some places recognize a third gender and its respective social and/or ceremonial role. This is the case for (some) North American Indigenous people, and two-spirit is a catch-all term to refer to a third gender role that they recognize.

It's hard to map onto the more standard two gender system that most of us are familiar with. When you think of men as the breadwinners and women as the child bearers, some cultures think of an additional distinct third gender with a designated social/ceremonial role.

But as you might have thought while reading that, men being the breadwinners and women being the child bearers is already a fairly outdated view of gender and social roles. Turns out social constructs are messier than they seem when you start to really analyze them and attempt to strictly define them.

TLDR: two-spirit is a catch-all term for a type of queer identity recognized by some North American Indigenous cultures.
- So, at risk of being reductive: it’s like non-binary, but in the way some North American indigenous cultures see it
AFAIK, it's basically people with different spirits inside them, falls in the gender queer domain, like being trans/NB (not a sexual orientation). So someone could have a male spirit and female spirit, or a female spirit and a nb spirit.

It primarily seems to be a First Nations/Native American identity, and appears to have a decently long history throughout time.

It also has a kinda cool flag.
- Interesting. So it is a myth based orientation?
  
  No disrespect I'm trying to understand if these people actually believe they are non binary, or if they believe a mythological entity lives within them
Two spirit in a Canadian Indigenous context refers to people who identify as having two spirits inside of them. They have the spirits of both a man and a woman, so outside Indigenous culture I think the most related term would be non-binary.
- isn't that just multiple personality disorder

So nice to see public safety taken seriously. I don't fit into the letters but also know full well that if a state is that intolerant then I won't fare well either so I avoid said state. With the atmosphere some states are building , anyone can be caught up in their net of Others to be othered. Hell they can just make shit up as they are doing already, logic and reasoning are not a part of this whole scheme.

Damn all these comments discrediting the 2, just like all the NA migrants discredit Native Americans rights.

Talk about doubling down on bigotry towards a race of people. Sheeesh, some of y'all are hypocritical.

I think there's not very much discrediting. Mostly just confusion over what the 2 means. I agree that the 2 is warranted when discussing queer Canadians.

goddamnit I remember joking that one day there'd be the entire alphabet stuck on the end of that acronym -- remember when it was just LGB? -- and now they're adding fucken' numbers

They're "adding fucken' numbers" because the 2 counts for 2-spirited, an indigenous Canadian and American concept that they are respecting. And you should fucken' respect it too considering what has been done to those indigenous people in the last 500 years.

IA was a thing for a second, there seems to be more strands of this than Covid...

Strangely Canada is the only country I travelled to from Europe where I was verbally asked in their airport border control: if I was Mormon, as not, what my religion was, and if I was gay. Not the tolerant country I always heard about.

I live in Canada and I've never heard of this happening. Did they just straight up ask you this at customs?
- Yes, he was the police admission controller in the airport. The one who decides if you can access it not the country. I was 21yo. I dislike people don't believing me but that supports the fact that those questions were as inappropriated as I always thought.
I don't believe you.
- Is up to you to deny this reality I can do nothing else then tell what happened to me.
At least make the lie believable
- I don't lie but you won't believe what you don't want to. Therefore, bye.
You were getting hit on by a gay ex-Mormon. He was awkward. He wants you to know he's sorry he made you uncomfortable.
What? That's definitely an exception.
- This was my awkward episode in Canada as I expected the country to be open minded and tolerant.