Do you think the guys on the titanic submarine will be rescued?

I understand, not that their lives don't matter. It's just that we don't pay attention to the ones that really do.

Of all the various ways to provide emergency rescue assistance, it appears that they've included almost nothing which would help them in the event of an underwater failure that prevented surfacing (i.e. emergency ballast release failing).

Apparently it was not certified in any way

My understanding of this is limited to the two paragraphs on CNN, but there is a process for "classing" vessels. The owners decided not to do so as the process only certified that the vessel itself is safe for use, and does not verify the procedures for operation or the training of the crew. Their logic for not classing was that most ocean failures are the result of poor procedures or poor crew decisions, ignoring entirely that the reason most failures fall into those to cases is because the vessels themselves are vetted (via the classing process) to eliminate the hardware as a failure mode. It's almost poetic that the man in charge of that decision is on the craft.

Even if they did survive and the ballast worked correctly, they would surface quickly (decompression sickness?)

Decompression sickness is a concern only if they suffered compression. But the main problem, as I see it, is that the sub was made from materials that are famously brittle and tend to degrade over many cycles of pressure and release (resin, carbon fiber, etc). So the likely failure mode is catastrophic failure of the sub under pressure.

There's a reason most deep sea stuff is made out of steel: it's somewhat ductile and recovers from compression with minimal change in properties.

Also these depths are usually only explored with unmanned drones, not makeshift tuna cans with store parts

Not an expert, but I don't think the air pressure inside the sub changes, so decompression sickness should be impossible. Don't quote me on that, though

Honestly, this case is somewhat extraordinary, in a deeply disturbing way.

First there was this amazing quote from the CEO who is missing on the craft right now

"You know, at some point, safety is just pure waste," Rush told CBS' David Pogue during an episode of his "Unsung Science" podcast. "I mean, if you just want to be safe, don't get out of bed, don't get in your car, don't do anything. At some point, you're going to take some risk, and it really is a risk-reward question."

Second, aside from being made from questionable experimental materials, the sub was being controlled by an old, off brand xbox controller. There were numerous design and safety issues that were known at the time of departure. They kinda just did whatever in the F they wanted to. It's a millionaire game of Fuck Around and Find Out and they're not used to finding out.

Third, the damage waiver

The disclaimer, read out by CBS correspondent David Pogue, read: “This experimental submersible vessel has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body, and could result in physical injury, disability, emotional trauma, or death.”

A nervous-looking Pogue makes a face and says, “Where do I sign?” in the footage recorded when he went on the $250,000 (£195,000) trip to see the Titanic at the end of last year.

I get that it's just some rich idiots (and one of their kids) crossing the river styx, but it's not very often you see such amazing disregard for basic safety.

They have money

For me, it's because this situation is a nightmare situation. I can't think of many more aweful ways to go. There is a chance that right now people are dying in a tube at the bottom of the ocean. Slowly. Or even worse, they could be on the surface. Able to see out their window but suffocating to death just hoping to see a ship come by. Maybe they saw a ship and it passed by. Maybe they died instantly is a rapid collapse.

I dunno, it's just the epitome of horror. I keep finding myself thinking about possibilities and what it's be like and what I'd do.

the quality of the sub really triggers my schadenfreude

It's mostly the being rich thing.

It's really sad that something like this gets so much news coverage and international support, while poor people are facing similar fates and we all pretend it's not happening.

I understand the news coverage. These are folks who are relatable to a lot of western audiences. People aspire to their wealth. The international support and rescue efforts though are a little shameful. You don't see this kind of efforts when it's migrants fleeing war and oppression.

I see the attention on the war in Ukraine similarly. What Russia is doing is shameful and I'm glad Ukraine is getting so much help. At the same time Yemen has it much worse. Hardly anyone even knows there is a war happening there, but it's American built bombs that are dropping on neighborhoods. They're not quite white and relatable enough to get us all putting their flag on our Twitter profiles.

More mysterious. Spookier. Generally more novel. Like you said, people get lost at sea all the time. People rarely get lost thousands of miles below sea.

Probably the significance of the dive site, and I'm not sure how many commerical submarines go missing every year, maybe a few private ones, but seldom in waters this deep.

It being so completely ridiculous. If a boat sinks, it just sinks... bad luck.

But this was some crazy person using some jerry-rigged submarine and then rich people actually trusting that.

It seems you've already identified the main part. Also the fact that it is a sexy story, shipwreck squared

Traditional media coverage + social media hype. Add in the fact that it’s a group of billionaires gallivanting in the deep sea. It’s a recipe for becoming a media sensation across all types of people.

Isn't there an automatic beacon that transmits when on the surface?

And why isnt it tethered?

The Greece tragedy is lacking the irony and hubris of this.

I mean, it's a tourist submersible that was aiming to bring billionaires to view the Titanic wreckage and it likely got wrecked itself. And they named the submersible Titan.

The sub's company OceanGate was dinged by a former employee for all sorts of safety issues and they fired and sued him. There are also lots of choice quotes from the CEO (who happens to be on the vessel) about moving fast and breaking things, and regulations stifling innovation. So there's some possible karma involved.

I think it's because the story about a missing submersible is unusual, and moreover, it's about a rescue attempt. This makes it more interesting than many other, albeit more dreadful, news stories.

I don't disagree, but missing sub is an unusual phenomenon and mystery that gets people interested.

I don't think the billionaires part is all that important, I didn't know about it until today. The Kursk, the kids trapped in a cave, the miners that have spent months in a mine, those were all news too.

But yea immigrants from war-torn regions - nobody cares unless they have "blond hair and blue eyes".

People tend to care more about the stuff that happens closer to them, or is somehow related to them. You probably don't care all that much about the armed conflict in Mali between the government, ISIS and Wagner Group.

That's what I'm more upset about.

Who gives a shit about a couple of billionaires. Why does this have to be a world-wide news story? Why don't we care about the 100s of refugees that die all the time in maritime accidents and why are those things dominating the news?

Time and time again we give the rich people all of our attention. Fuck that. We shouldn't be letting the media direct our attention like this.

I read somewhere when air runs out you just fall asleep

Yeah I don't think you're very far out on that limb. The likelihood of successful rescue is extremely low.

I can't really believe anybody would spend $250K on a submarine expedition with the guy in charge of Ocean Gate, and his incredibly cavalier attitude toward safety.

There is only so much others can regulate when you are building an inverted rocketship

I don't know that you can really call it wishing. I think that deed is done.

If you want to get up on a high horse, how about this instead of some billionaire?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/17/world/greece-boat-worst-ever-tragedy-mediterranean-sea-intl-hnk/index.html

There are few enough billionaires who got there by being a good person that one could easily assume that number was effectively zero. Not saying they deserve death, but your hyperbole isn't helping.

This comment had me gasping.

Holding my breath. Oh dear

I cant speak for myself but i think communication in general is a very well understood topic. If that fails you can just assume everyone is dead. I am not sure if the banging is real tho or if it was something else

Power failure?

That's the coast guards job isn't it? Should we just let people die without attempting to save them just because it's costly?

It is an interesting dilemma though isn't it? On the one hand, emergency services are there for a reason. In general, you don't want people to hesitate to call them because seconds matter in life threatening situations. What makes people hesitate? Fining them a shitload of money for being dumbasses who need rescuing.

On the other hand, it creates a bit of a moral hazard. People feel like they can go out and be morons, get in trouble, then get rescued by expensive professionals.

I feel like these people should face some punitive measures for being dumbasses and ignoring all kinds of safety advice etc. But again, people in the future might not call 911 or whoever when they should, because of that thought "what if I get fined a million bucks for being a dumb dumb?"

Just something to think about.

Wow, it's confirmed. Honestly so grateful they had an immediate and painless death. Imagine sitting in complete darkness for 4 days waiting to suffocate.

I'm not familiar with the mechanics of this sub obviously, but I'm given to understand that an emergency ascent should have been initiated by this point if everything was fully functional. That probably points to a design flaw - you should always keep those systems as independent of each other as possible so that if one fails, you can fall back on the other. Of course it's possible that they've since ascended and haven't been found, or got stuck, but assuming they haven't that could imply that the sub experienced an insurmountable failure and they're looking for people who are either gone or near-unrescuable.

Want more strange coincidences? The CEO's wife (well, widow now I guess) is a descendant of a couple that died on the Titanic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/21/us/wendy-stockton-rush-titanic-missing-submersible.html

Their story is quite famous even.

Still not a conspiracy worthy coincidence, it might just have sparked a mutual fascination for the shipwreck.

Thats my worst nightmare! Their toilet is just a tiny bottle so they're all gonna be pissing, shitting and puking on each other for days, arguing everytime someone starts hyperventilating. fuck that.

I'm not really in the business of defending billionaires but I think at least one of them, the guy who brought his son, was involved with charities:

"He works with his family's Dawood Foundation, as well as the SETI Institute - a California-based research organisation which searches for extra-terrestrial life.

"Shahzada is also a supporter of two charities founded by King Charles - the British Asian Trust and the Prince's Trust International."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-65955554

He sounds (sounded) like a good person.. I do find it interesting that the other billionaires don't have any mentions of charitable works in articles I've read in them.

It's more than a little ironic they [presumably] died in an accident caused by cutting corners on regulations and safety by saying things like "certifications cost too much time and money, we shouldn't have to train someone just to convince them that this is safe", as well as doing things like firing safety personnel when they object to the submersible's worthiness.

I saw someone call it the 'minimim viable submersible' and I've never heard a better description as someone who spends all day working on minimum-viable-product style projects

The sub will never be found is my guess too.. its a huge ocean and with no beacon, its just another lump.

That depends on if their CO2 scrubbing lasts longer than their O2 supply. Your body can't actually feel a lack of O2, the feeling most people associate with suffocation is actually your body detecting a build up of CO2 in your blood. If they can keep scrubbing the CO2 out of the air after they run out of O2 then they'll just start to get lightheaded, kind of drunk feeling, tired, and eventually just pass out and die. You actually barely feel it happening which is why O2 sensors are so important when working in poorly ventilated confined spaces. I know this first hand because I work with bulk liquid nitrogen and I've damn near knocked myself out a couple times via an inert gas cloud. One moment you're perfectly fine, then you just start to black out and it dulls your senses so much that you don't even have the brain power to process what's happening. Them running out of oxygen more slowly will extend that process a bit but it still isn't a painful process and the thought numbing effect from your brain running out of oxygen keeps it from even feeling particularly alarming.

So as long as they can keep scrubbing CO2 then at least they won't die a particularly "unpleasant" death. That is assuming the sub didn't just pop from pressure like you said.

this video's journalists even are like "dude this is incredibly scuffed", those scientists with them should be considered heroes in some sense

I mean, I agree that the construction is sketchy (runs the whole thing from an off-brand playstation controller? Couldn't splurge on the $800 for a real cassette toilet?), but acrylic and carbon fiber are appropriate material choices, if they were used in the appropriate thicknesses and configurations.

That's a bit harsh. If there's anything that works in modern society pretty reliably regardless of status, it's search and rescue. Sunk subs can also be an environmental hazard.

It's kinda poetic for them to go down next to the titanic, itself a story of complacency and excess/opulance.

At least this method of winning the darwin award is going full circle.

'Bringing an outside entity up to speed on every innovation before it is put into real-world testing is anathema to rapid innovation.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12215003/OceanGate-REFUSED-independent-inspection-missing-sub-fired-worker-raised-safety-concerns.html

He hired a guy specifically to work on the safety of the sub and fired him when he raised too many concerns like the viewport not being rated for that depth.

'Lochridge learned that the viewport manufacturer would only certify to a depth of 1,300 meters due to the experimental design of the viewport supplied by OceanGate, which was out of the Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy ('PVHO') standards.

'OceanGate refused to pay for the manufacturer to build a viewport that would meet the required depth of 4,000 meters.

Jesus Christ you people are insane.

Not only that, one look at the thing they chose to go down into the water in was enough for me to wonder what kind of hallucinogens they must've been on to accept that risk.

I think you meant to say imploded. Decompression is when you have saturation diving bells instantly lose pressure from something like 8atm to 1atm. Look up byford dolphin.

This is least painful/scary way for them to die. It'd be an instantaneous death.

High pressure under water does weird things

https://yewtu.be/watch?v=kWVvI4Aw-kc

The search team says they heard a banging sound,

is it even possible to hear a banging noise if the banging is coming from inside the submarine?

This was posted 2 days ago.

All hail our orca overlords!

Out of the loop. What's about orcas? I've been reading comments about them but I don't see the relation.

I don't care how much money I had, there's no fucking way I would have gotten on that thing or done anything that involved going down into the ocean at that depth.