5d ago

Panchen Lama says reincarnation must follow Chinese laws, be endorsed by Beijing

www.scmp.com Panchen Lama says reincarnation must follow Chinese laws, be endorsed by Beijing

Second-highest figure in Tibetan Buddhism makes apparent reference to succession of exiled spiritual leader Dalai Lama.

Second-highest figure in Tibetan Buddhism makes apparent reference to succession of exiled spiritual leader Dalai Lama

83 comments

This has been expected since the abduction of the real Panchen Lama

Archive link.
This apparently isn't even the "real" Panchen Lama, but is the one chosen by China to replace the one that was kidnapped and was chosen by the Dalai Lama.
- This apparently isn’t even the “real” Panchen Lama
  Sort of the joke of religious doctrine. These people aren't actually reincarnated Buddhist Wizards who can magically divine the destiny of their successors.
  This Panchen Lama is as much "real" as the current Dalai Lama is "real".
  These are humans, they can be educated and influenced as easily as anyone, and their politics/religion is a consequence of their upbringing rather than some magical pre-birth spiritual intuition. And they can also grow up, realize their position in the world, and regret their decisions in hindsight.
  In 1999, the Dalai Lama suggested that the CIA Tibetan program had been harmful to Tibet because it primarily served American interests, claiming "once the American policy toward China changed, they stopped their help ... The Americans had a different agenda from the Tibetans."
  Gyalo Thondup, the Dalai Lama's elder brother, also expressed frustration with the role of the CIA in Tibetan affairs. In a 2009 interview, he stated "I never asked for CIA military assistance. I asked for political help. I wanted to publicize the Tibet situation, to make a little noise. The Americans promised to help make Tibet an independent country. All those promises were broken." He continues, claiming that America "didn't want to help Tibet. It just wanted to make trouble for China. It had no far-sighted policy for Tibet. I wasn't trained for this (clandestine operations). We didn't know about power politics."
  During the Tibetan program's period of activity, some of its largest contributions to the CIA's interests in the region came in the form of keeping the Chinese occupied with resistance, never actually producing a mass uprising establishing independence for Tibet from Beijing. The program also produced a trove of army documents that Tibetan insurgents seized from the Chinese and turned over to the CIA in 1961 in what has been referred to as "one of the greatest intelligence successes of the Cold War".
  
  I don't follow religious doctrine either, but as long as the adherents aren't acting in ways that are harmful to others, I personally try not to insult or belittle them or their beliefs.
  The information regarding the CIA is interesting though. The fact that the US reneged on their promises and only used Tibet to extract information about China is depressing, but not surprising.
- Look no matter how you feel about the China and i dislike their government as well the "kidnapped" person was according to them relocated and allowed to live a regular life and there is something to be said to not allow a six year old to be forced to a religious figure forced to abide by among other things vows of celibacy.
  
  Forcibly relocating a child away from their parents is the literal definition of kidnapping. Whether or not he ended up having a good life afterwards does not change that fact.
  
  No matter how silly you think someone else's religion is, you don't get to dictate what others believe or how they get to believe. China has effectively made a religion functionally extinct with their actions. No matter how you slice it, it's a loss for humanity.

You know it's a fake Panchen Lama because they're saying the next Dalai Lama must adhere to what an atheist government that was responsible for annexing and taking over their land has to say.
- Spoiler alert: they're all fake
  
  This one is extra fake though, like if Trump/Vance decided to name their own pope. Honestly wouldn't be surprised, now that the idea occurred to me.

Hes only saying that because he was kidnapped and brainwashed
- Look no matter how you feel about the China and i dislike their government as well the “kidnapped” person was according to them relocated and allowed to live a regular life and there is something to be said to not allow a six year old to be forced to a religious figure forced to abide by among other things vows of celibacy.
  
  Ah yes instead of indoctrination into the religion of his people he gets indoctrinated into the thinking of a politcal state hostile to his people. Basically equivalent /s
  
  Yes, the government that was accused of abducting a family is in the right, because that same government says they are treating that family well, and no, no one is allowed to independently verify that, but obviously you have every reason to take our word for it
  
  Why do you keep putting kidnapped in quotes? Do you believe the forced removal of a whole family is not considered kidnapping? Or are you just being pedantic: "It's not a kidnapping if they took more than just the kid. It's an abduction."
- Brainwashed Panchen Lama vs CIA operative Dali Lama, who will win?
  
  Obviously, anyone who doesn't like their people being genocided by the CCP must be a CIA operative.
  
  Funny how Lemmy.ml doesn't post anything which could reasonably be recognised as leftism, and instead just posts "western countries bad" garbage over and over and over again.
  
  You're not allowed to talk about this. This is Far-Left Tankie Bullshit Lies and also it doesn't matter and also nothing the Dali Lama or his brother said in hindsight matters.
  In 1999, the Dalai Lama suggested that the CIA Tibetan program had been harmful to Tibet because it primarily served American interests, claiming “once the American policy toward China changed, they stopped their help … The Americans had a different agenda from the Tibetans.”
  Gyalo Thondup, the Dalai Lama’s elder brother, also expressed frustration with the role of the CIA in Tibetan affairs. In a 2009 interview, he stated “I never asked for CIA military assistance. I asked for political help. I wanted to publicize the Tibet situation, to make a little noise. The Americans promised to help make Tibet an independent country. All those promises were broken.” He continues, claiming that America “didn’t want to help Tibet. It just wanted to make trouble for China. It had no far-sighted policy for Tibet. I wasn’t trained for this (clandestine operations). We didn’t know about power politics.”
  The important thing to remember is that Tibet is a free country being villainously occupied and oppressed by the Evil Chinese Invaders. Everyone in Tibet hates everyone in China. They yearn for freedom. And if we can just put enough heavy weapons into the hands of Tibetian dissidents the country will explode into a liberal democracy of freedom and liberty and Buddhism which is the one good religion that everyone on Lemmy loves.

Why would the rules of reincarnations be subject to any laws of man? How is it that Beijing could possibly exert control over metaphysical powers? To suggest so, proves the speaker does not believe in reincarnation and should be ignored on the subject, no?
No authority greater than Xi Xing Ping is absolute authoritarianism.
- The Panchen Lama is a puppet of the CCP.
- The catch that always seems to bring this heavenly process down into the dirt is “identifying” the reincarnated lama. China’s rhetoric, if you look closely, is all about ensuring outside countries don’t interfere in that process. They are trying to assert that only they have the ability to recognize when the reincarnation has taken place, and who it is. Not that they can control who it is.
  I know, it’s bullshit. But “people get hung up on bullshit” is a shortened history of human civilization.

This is incredibly stupid.

So a reincarnation based religious system that spans countless realities, creatures, and millennia is somehow beholden to this reality's 76 year old country led by a dictator? Makes sense.
- That's where you take issue?
- Only China’s CCP can protect the sanctity of this process from politically motivated interference by devils in Chinese Taiwan and the United States.
  You know, or so they’d have you believe.

LOL, Physics Law must follow CCP lead next?
- Oh they are actually fully open to science. Let them govern magic sky daddies, if it pleases them.
  
  If they thought it would increase the power of the party, they'd go full Lysenko in a nanosecond.

Once again, I'm humbled just when I think the universe can't create a brand new sentence.

You can only reincarnate with a social credit score of 1000 or more.
- aww, my credit score will never get that high.

The catholic church also made a deal so they could continue operating there, they have to acknowledge that the CCP is more important than god.

I thought the Dalai Lama said the he would not reincarnate.
Obviously because he know chinese influence would institute someone who supports Chinese control as the next Dalai lama.
- Yeah, then Beijing anointed some random to be the next one iirc, and he's not recognized officially. I'm guessing that's this dude.
  
  China baaically kidnapped the Pachen Lama. No one has seen him for years. He is either replaced or brainwashed....either way, the Pachen names tha Dalai. So basically China is pucking a Dalai lama that will support China over Tibet.
- Different lama.
  The Dalai Lama is the boss lama. The Panchen Lama is a second-tier Lama who has come under the control of the Chinese imperialists.

Ah right, the chinese budhism.

Tibetan Buddhism with Chinese characteristics

this is not suspicious at all.

There's already a law on the books in China giving the state authority over reincarnation. Which sounds insane, but it's specifically within the context of the top monks in the Tibetan branch of Buddhism building their line of succession through "reincarnation". That's why when the Panchen Lama's reincarnation was identified, the Chinese government whisked him and his family away and selected their own.

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