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People using Cloudflare, are you still happy with it? Would you consider any self-hosted alternative?

cross-posted from: https://discuss.online/post/30840627

Genuine question, so please don't be mean to whoever responds. Better to learn than to judge.

Curious if people who are on Cloudflare are considering any selfhosted alternatives? If not, interested to hear what is a deal breaker in regards to using a service besides Cloudflare. I do hear a lot of praise for Cloudflare when facing DDOS, and always happy to learn more!

36 comments
  • You might be misunderstanding the value-add of a CDN to self-hosting, so here's my attempt at explaining:

    I've been self-hosting things for a very long time. In the old days, we would wrangle our routers to expose port 80 for HTTP (and later, port 443 for HTTPS) and forward those connections to the self-host server and then add the appropriate DNS records to point our website domain to our home IP address (which was its own fun challenge when ISPs refused to give static IP addresses for home plans). Relatively simple.

    However, in recent years (especially after the pandemic) the internet has become a much more hostile place. People find vulnerabilities in your nginx/caddy/apache or whatever reverse proxy you use (or router, or any one of the many other parts of your network/software stack) gain access to your local network and your personal data. And then there are bad actors doing DDoS attacks or AI crawlers generating DDoS levels of incoming requests to overload your hardware.

    All that combined means it's very dangerous to have your home IP exposed to the internet (allowing any sort of inbound requests) at all.

    So, how do we access our self-hosted stuff while we're outside of home? The safest approach is to use a VPN. Tailscale is the most popular one that I've come across. Only client devices that are connected to the VPN have access to your stuff. Random bad actors can't poke your self-hosted stack for vulnerabilities.

    Okay, what if you want to share something with people publicly? I for one, use Immich for my photo libraries and it's very easy to be able to share a link to an album for friends and extended family to access without having to install and configure a VPN on their phones.

    That is where cloudflare comes in. We can run cloudflared on our machine, which makes an outbound request to cloudflare and creates a tunnel to route all the incoming requests from their servers to your reverse proxy. Your network is still not exposed to the internet, and the edge nodes (the machines that actually front the incoming traffic from the clients) are not owned by you.

    Now, I guess it's feasible to rent a VPS on DigitalOcean/OVH/Azure/AWS and run a Tailscale exit node there to achieve a similar result. I haven't looked too deeply into Pangolin but it looks kind of similar. Now you're adding extra work to keep those configured correctly (and up-to-date), is less secure because you're not doing that full time (unlike the engineers at cloudflare) and you're still dependent on that VPS provider to not go down, so the disaster recovery profile hasn't changed all that much.

    That's why there's no self-hosted alternatives to a CDN. I guess you can go with their competitors like Fastly/Akamai/etc, but all of them are considerably more expensive. And even the ones that do have free tiers have data limits or bill per gigabyte. That's an extra headache to worry about for that one month your mother decides to take 1000 videos of your son during the family vacation and her phone automatically backed up all of them at full-quality.

  • People using Cloudflare, are you still happy with

    Absolutely happy with Cloudflare Tunnels/ZeroTrust. Yes, I realize all the pros and cons. There are some good points made on both sides of the fence. Do I think it makes me less of a selfhoster? Nah. I don't really have any interest in pedantic, hair splitting, of definitions. Cloudflare isn't all that I use tho. I use Tailscale on my stand alone pFsense firewall, and on the server itself as an overlay layer of protection. I also use Duckdns in conjunction with LetsEncrypt on my VPS, however, I wanted something that I felt was more secure on my homelab, and Cloudflare fit the bill.

    That is not to say I am in this blindly. If at some point Cloudflare, or any other service I use, doesn't suit it's purpose anymore, I can always move on to something else. Monitor, and make choices based on those observations. We should do that with any service, software, opensource or closed source anyways.

  • I moved my setups to Pangolin and placed it on a VPS and then just have been using it since and is about the same as I could run it with a CDN such as Cloudflare. I know Cloudflare has better security with things but I also use Crowdsec which has been nice for keeping most things away. I host my email through Mxroute so it's never an issue. While Cloudflare has been very stable for years, this last outage didn't affect me like it would have, although I'm just use the stuff or my purposes.

    I left Cloudflare because I was ready to move away from there and found that Pangolin offered what I was looking for. No hard feelings either way toward Cloudflare at all.

    • Pangolin

      I will say that Pangolin is pretty tight. It combines a lot of the things you would normally have to deploy separately. Nice package.

  • I self-host only private stuff, so there was never a need for anything like cloudflare.

    • I am the only user of my network. I don't host any publicly, forward facing services. After reviewing a lot of options, I settled on Cloudflare for the homelab and on the VPS I use Caddy, Tailscale, Crowdsec, and a few other pieces to make me sleep better at night. LOL

  • Yeah, I'm still pretty happy with my set up. My workplace is locked down, apart from the regular web. So if I want to access my self-hosted Code Server or FreshRSS or Calibre Web instance I have to do it through standard port 443. I run everything through Cloud Flare tunnels so scrapers and bots aren't constantly hammering my home broadband connection. (Edit: fixed a word.)

36 comments