Everyone Watches TV with Subtitles Now. How’d That Happen?
Closed captioning has only risen in popularity in the past few years. What caused that?
Because the fuckers producing the shows make the music and sound effects 5x louder than it needs to be but the dialogue half as loud as it needs to be.
It's because they're mixing dialogue for the center channel speaker. Most people don't have a center channel on their TV or sound bar, but some "Dialogue Mode"s will exclusively play the center channel and drown out the sound effects. It's a trade off, but one that most manufacturers don't even give the option for.
Music loud as fuck, voices soft as fuck, turn volume down and put on subtitles
Yep the sound mixing is dogshit in 99% of movies and tv shows. Also where i come from everything was always subtitled anyway so im used to it
There's a couple reasons why I use subtitles all time. Firstly I'm getting older and can't hear as well with background noise. If my wife is banging around in the kitchen I can't hear dialog from the TV. With subtitles on I don't have to mess with the volume.
Another issue is media producers (TV and film) have this idea they need to blast you out of your chair with sound effects and music. So if you turn up the volume enough to hear the dialog clearly, you're going to get blasted by everything else. Trying to manage that with the volume control is damn near impossible. Interestingly I've noticed "dialog boost" appear on occasion in sound track options from my streaming provider. I use it when the option is there. That kind of indicates a global problem.
An issue related to sound leveling is actors used to come out of theater where they learned to annunciate loudly and clearly. It seems actors don't get proper stage training anymore and now it's okay to mumble and fail to annunciate. A decent director should never allow that.
Interesting to hear people have the opposite experience as me. I have a home theater and love dynamic audio (loud when supposed to be loud, quiet when supposed to be quiet) but have noticed more and more that movies seem to be mixed for iPads and sound dead. Disney/Pixar is a great example of home theater enthusiasts finding their movies just aren't acoustically exciting anymore.
The only time I hate dynamic audio is when I'm trying to fall asleep
For me, at least, it's the fucking bad audio. So goddamn often the sound makes someone difficult to understand so I watch most things with subtitles.
I don't have to do that with games. Why? Because I get separate volume sliders for music, sound effects, and speech. Trouble understanding just means I need to adjust those to make the speech louder over music and fx.
Why in the hells tv and movie audio tracks don't have this separation I don't understand at all.
With a surround system you can boost the center speaker, it's basically the 'voice' volume control
When watching The Expanse on Prime Video, some episodes have an option to select an audio channel with boosted dialogue. Pretty neat feature but unfortunately not for every episode, inexplicably.
I always use them, otherwise I have to hold the remote the whole time and keep changing the volume. Watching Silo right now and there's so many whispering scenes I'd never be able to make out.
On 24 Kiefer used to alternate between talking and whispering multiple times in the same sentence. Made me effing crazy.
And a few minutes after dead silent dialog, movies start blasting explosions and gunshots loud enough to wake up the whole neighborhood.
I started watching with my noise canceling AirPods through the roku app. Or just turning on subtitles.
I’m just deaf and happy y’all’re seeing the light. My father was annoyed with mom’s captions. My wife used them before we met
I'm also hearing impaired and am just really glad that captions are becoming so popular.
It used to be that YouTube was rarely accessible to me. There would be a tiny amount of content that had subtitles (sometimes baked in, like epic rap battles of history does), but the vast majority of videos just weren't fun for me because I'd miss too much. These days a good chunk of popular YouTubers have curated captions and another good chunk are clear enough speakers that the automatic captions work.
I've actually been watching more YouTube in recent times than ever before specifically because I've been discovering all this content I previously wrote off. There was recently a post somewhere that introduced me to Technology Connections. And from there, I figured I'd check out some other names I had heard about that might be interesting, Linus's tech tips and ElectroBOOM, and both had captions, too.
My wife and I actually just finished the newest technology connections video. I watched it enough that she got interested in what her dork wife was enjoying. But yeah I really love the rise of captioned YouTube. TC is extra great because he’s been captioning his videos explicitly to be accessible for the deaf/hoh community because he cares about accessibility and I really just want more people to seriously consider that.
I have a whole ass rant about how people think of hearing aid users as all old folks and that hinders my ability to get flashy ones both for style and signaling purposes. But it also comes into play in contexts like this where content aimed at 20-30 somethings will historically just not bother accommodating us as much as stuff aimed at older people.
I don't think average TV audio gear is the problem. We have excellent audio gear, and the fuckwits who make the content are letting actors get away with (whispering). Lazy shits.
Audio is all over the place from streaming sources. It's like the last 80 years of knowledge was forgotten.
Ray Charles (and other real artists) made his mix engineers listen to a song compressed in mono and bandwidth chopped because he knew most of his fans listened via AM radio.
Make those fuckers listen to their own shit. Or the assholes giving those other assholes money.
Yeah, it bothers me when people say the speakers are subpar rather than criticize the creators for making better mixes for the average household. It doesn't help when every TV tries to pretend like it has surround and tells the streaming service it is 5.1 surround when the service doesn't have a way to manually swap the audio.
Also it annoys me that dialogue only captions aren't a more common option.
The best closed captioning I have seen is the most recent season of Stranger Things. They describe the sounds like "wet squelching" and the mood of the music like "hope synth crescendos" and stuff. So much better than "[music]".
For the perfect example of the whisper problem watch any episode of Star trek discovery. The main character whispers almost every line and it's very disturbing.
The degradation of TV audio was inevitable once flatscreen monitors started to get really thin and big. We now sit farther than ever from our screens, which leads to higher pitched dialog getting quieter (since it attenuates faster than low pitched sounds - think about how you can hear a car stereo from around the block, but can’t hear your neighbor’s baby crying). In addition, our quest to eliminate speaker grills has led to designs that either point speakers straight down (obviously bad), or use complex sound piping to reorient sound through small openings (sorta bad).
When you add in the fact that most TV and films are now designed explicitly for surround sound and/or good headphones, you can imagine how bad things get for most people.
Ever since my first apartment, I've always routed my TV and my computers through a stereo system. Idk how people can stand integrated speakers.
My stereo setup is a garbage low end early 2000s bookshelf situation, but it's still miles better than a anything I've heard that gets pumped out the back (the back??!) of even super expensive flat screens.
I'd argue, that lower frequencies (male voices) are harder to understand, because built in tv speaker struggle to reproduce them. The attenuation should not really matter in a closed room, a size that normal people can afford.
Other than that I think you are totally right.
Am I the only one that has always had a surround system? We got our first one with our first HDTV for 80 bucks now we have a 7.2 for the 4k and unless the audio mixing is bad we don't use them and most of the time we only use the temporary ones. I don't like the visual experience to be interrupted by floating words.
I think the now-universal ability to pause video contributed to that. 25 years ago you'd be a jerk interrupting a line we wouldn't hear again until reruns.
Whatever the reason, a lot of people struggle to hear dialogue now, so turning on closed captioning to decipher what people are saying has become a no brainer move.
Good to realize I am not going deaf.
Many shows are mixed for surround sound where there's a dedicated centre channel where the dialogue comes from. This is the main reason people can't hear the dialogue.
Film producers are intentionally mixing for theaters and refusing to mix for home devices.
Are theaters still relevant today? I honestly don't know. Have not been in one for many years, everything is just way too expensive.
Mumble mumble whisper EXPLOSION!
I got fucking kids and now never have any peace anymore. That's how that happened for me at least.
Same. I also watch tv while they're asleep and I have to keep the volume low.
I literally can't hear some words occasionally in newer shows. I don't need them for older shows though.
I feel you. Watched the first spider verse movie today, and I barely understood a word. It's either whispering, or BANG CACHOW POW POWwhisperPOW.
And yes, I could just manually "fix" the sound, but that requires that I pirate or buy a physical copy first.
There was a video essay going viral about this some time ago.
That was super informative! Thank you!
Because the mixing is usually ass on these shows
Mixing is ass on shows and movies these days.
The audio is just really bad for movies and series that are in the original language. If it's dubbed the voice becomes much clearer. Or TV speakers might just be shitty, because with headphones everything is clear again ...
TV speakers generally suck. With the boom of flat screens they are almost exclusively rear firing.
They basically expect everyone to buy replacement speakers
I believe it's also psychological, it's easier to concentrate when there's written word matching the action. Our attention is diminished these days.
A striking example of how this trend is irreversible is japanese tv. You'll see words everywhere. It's used for emphasis but also the shows end up boring without them.
I wish movie theatres would have regular showings with captions on the screen. I'm hearing impaired and need captions no matter what (doesn't matter what the audio mixing is like -- I need them). The chain theatres near me have caption devices available on request. They go in the cup holder and have a shared little screen.
Problem is, those caption devices suck. They are unreliable and sometimes skip lines here and there. I've also been to too many theatres where the captions just didn't work (every one has given me a refund and even consolation coupons, but I really just want to be able to watch the movie).
And then indie theatres straight up have never even tried to be accessible to me. There's a cool looking indie theatre in my city that I'm never gonna go to because they have no accessibility options.
Let’s keep in mind that TV subtitles were true garbage back then. I have ADHD and often miss dialogue. I remember resigning myself to not using them as there was a huge time delay and the white text on black boxes covered 10% of our 480p screens.
Personally I find subtitles to be awful now. The ones on Netflix at least are largely farmed out to cheap labour from developing countries. I've had numerous instances where the subs were different than what was actually said, enough so as to cause confusion or ruin the dialogue.
I hate when they shortened the sentence to summarize it instead of writing exactly what was said.
I watch while my baby naps. Subtitles on, volume low because I swear to god if I wake him up.....
I've started turning on the Subtitles, as it seems as if newer shows and movies are harder to understand. At first, I thought my hearing is going, but not only can I hear the music in the shows just fine, I can watch old shows and movies from over 10 years ago and understand them just fine. In my opinion, it is as if they are putting less volume on the vocal tracks, or maybe using microphones or recording techniques that are not ideal for the spoken language.
It's actually voice technique for the most part. Traditional old microphones weren't as good at recording so actors were specially trained to speak and articulate well to get past the interference and background noise since filtering wasn't really done. As microphones and technological advances improved so did the microphones and the need for special articulation became less and less until somewhere in the 70s or 80s the culture in film shifted to normal voices to have better immersion between the audience and the movie scene. And it just went from there. Nowadays our microphones are so good that even whispered conversations in intimate scenes can be well recorded. So the actors basically just use their everyday voice or try to emulate a real accent which are often slurred.
You seem to be saying actors don't enunciate anymore because they no longer need to. people using subtitles seems to say they still need to.
I use them because often when I watch series I munch on loud snacks.
I'm HoH and don't like to use captions. My wife hears fine and will only use captions.
You all now know that. You're welcome.
Thank you.
Eating chips.
Watching YouTube while eating a meal
When I play films produced decades ago in stereo or even mono, it’s shocking how much easier the dialogue is to understand. I’ve resorted to spending a not insignificant sum on a 5.1 setup just so I can crank up the centre channel and make the dialogue a bit more intelligible. Even then it still isn’t perfect. The dynamic range just really isn’t suitable for home viewing. I’m still constantly riding the volume to keep sound effects from pissing off my neighbours/sleeping child…
Here’s a youtube video on the same topic I watched recently: https://youtu.be/VYJtb2YXae8
I have just assumed my ears aren’t great anymore. Too many band rehearsals and shows, or headphones. Recently I’ve come to realize my chronic sinus congestion probably fucked them up as much as my rock n roll lifestyle.
It’s nice to hear the sound is bad and it’s not just that I’m bad at hearing it.
Honestly, I ended up going for a 5.1 setup for my PC just because so much content is mixed for surround as a thing now, it's crazy.
I find that I tend to miss words because of pronunciation, accent, or the character just basically not even verbalizing parts of some words.
When I turn on subtitles, I never miss a word.
Does that mean I'm a nobody? Lol
For real though, I'm so glad to have a 5.1 speaker setup, it solves the problem of too many channels coming out of two speakers on the back of the tv. I can hear rather clearly and only use subtitles for foreign language content.
Consumers and manufacturers have prioritized giant, beautiful TVs over sound. Studios and streamers have prioritized 5.1 over stereo. It's a perfect storm. I agree that you can make things quite a bit better by breaking out that center channel. Heck even a 3.1 system will do the trick.
I use them just because it can provide more information. Look at them in passing when you didn't quite make out what someone said. Also subtitles for foreign films, I dont like watching dubbed.
Sound engineering is expensive. Actor retakes are expensive. Fixing dialogue in post production is expensive.
All studios are cheap and trying to squeeze as much profit as possible. They won't pay to do sound correctly.
This actually makes me feel better haha. I always felt thay my English is STILL not good enough, even after 5 years of living in an English speaking country, to fully understand dialogue on screen.
Also, props to you for scoring that username
Its not you. No one can understand what's going on.
I joined lemmy a few weeks before the blackouts.
They need to sell more soundbars with dedicated center channels to address this specific issue. The vast majority of them are left/right channels, great for explosions but not great for dialogue.
I don't feel like that would solve the problem. Sound is shit even with 5.1 or 7.1. I generally just turn it up and deal with some parts being really loud.
I hate subtitles, I find them distracting. I love to read books, I read a lot. But if I want to read a book in that moment I will read a book. I want to watch and listen to what's on the TV, not read it.
My wife prefers them though, so it's a point of contention.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/06/watching-movies-tv-with-subtitles/674301/
This article encapsulates everything I feel about the subject. I hate using subtitles, but sometimes I just have to in order to hear what people are saying due to streaming services messing with the actual sound mix using their stupid algorithms. As for reasons I hate subtitles: they distract from the actual film and can occasionally spoil things happening. If subtitles are on the screen, my brain forces my eyes down to read them, and I inevitably lose out on some of the nuances of the visual part of the visual media.
Additionally, if I'm watching foreign films, I get this urge to learn the language so I can stop using subtitles. Maybe I'm a curmudgeon, but I just can't stand them. I can't imagine watching Redline for instance with subtitles on. Yuck.
I thought I was just losing my hearing. Well, technically I am.. but at least it’s not the only reason.
IMO, a not-insignificant factor here is attention - most people are doing two things (at least) while watching TV these days. They aren't fully tuned in and actively listening to hear what's being said in English speaking shows, even with heavy regional dialects. You can definitely follow these shows, you just have to "be there".
Second observation is actually around Neurodivergent people. I find certain people fixate on understanding exact language and meaning in TV shows/movies, when in reality, much of the content speaking to multicultural audiences know that you won't exactly understand every cultural reference or specific phrase - when the Italian mafia boss shouts quickly with angry eyes and runs the back of his hand under his chin at someone... You don't need to know specifically that he said, "your mother is a prostitute who sleeps with goats". You're meant to take the general context of that moment from tone and body language. ESPECIALLY say, is the person he's yelling at in Italian is American for example, that confusion you feel personally adds to you emphasizing with the fear and confusion of that character who doesn't understand what's being said. Many though can't break that fixation on needing to know EXACTLY though, so I know people that keep the subtitles on.
I think some people should probably just be trained to consume media properly, and they may respond well to that training if it existed somehow. Problem is, all of the networks are owned by huge multinational conglomerates. They don't care at all about the art or the split attention, just that they have captured that diverted attention in both places that you're half focusing on.
English is not my mother tongue but I prefer it when watching movies and series. The subtitles are English as well, but when there is some strange dialect or some background noise I need it to get the context.
I pirate tv shows and movies. They don't have embedded subtitles for when someone starts speaking another language anymore. If I don't turn on subtitles I may be watching something and suddenly realize, "These mofos have been speaking Mexican for the last three minutes!"
What I really hate is when the show does have embedded subtitles, but then the optional subtitles display over the top of them with "speaking Mexican"
TVs nowadays have terrible built-in speakers with hard to hear dialogue. A lot of soundbars also struggle with voices.
I think the majority of the time its the mix being designed for a cinema setup. It's annoying, but understandable.
Sometimes. Except for TV shows.
Also what happened to the “this video has been modified to fit you Tv screen” green warnings. They should do the same with sound mix imho. A TV screens speakers are much different than a theatre, or even home theatre.
I use them as I am hard of hearing. I like being able to know what's being said.
There’s also better understanding of neurodivergence. For example, many people with autism and adhd often find subtitles necessary because of an audio processing delay.
I know this isn’t what you meant. But I chuckled at the notion of “if you use subtitles you may have autism”.
I am slightly deaf.
I have subtitles because of kids. I'm deaf as fuck from years of subwoofer abuse, can't have the TV at a listenable volume at night and keep them asleep.
Happened to me when I started datingy now wife. She needs the subtitles as English is not her main language. I got used to it.
English is not my first language neither and watching shows with English subtitles is how I learned English.
Same here!! So easy to miss dialogue when you're learning and when a single word you're not sure about can throw your whole thinking completely off. What did he say? Oh shoot I'm missing more now.
I refuse to use them for movies and TV shows. I guess that's stubborn? But if I wanted to read, I would have picked up a book, not started watching a movie/show. Obviously thought, I will use them for foreign films, or any multilingual films.
Yeah. I understand the trend. It makes sense. It's not unreasonable.
I still hate it. I have a nice home theater and my wife STILL trys to turn on subtitles. For me, I can't not read them. Even in English with a good sound system. My brain just focuses on subtitles anyway. Movies and TV are a visual medium. I want to watch the movie. I want to see the color choices, the framing of the characters, the cool CGI. With subtitles, I only SEE half the movie. I have less time to process each seen.
So yeah, same. If I wanted to read, I'd read a book.
Idk if it's stubbornness as much as just your preference, and that's super fine!
I've always focused a lot on sets and stuff more than the dialog in movies and shows, so with subtitles I feel like I'm missing a significant portion of the experience that I like most. When subtitles are on, I can't make myself not read them, so I get less time to take everything else in.
Kinda funny, too, since I have significant hearing loss. I'm who captions are meant for lol
Fucking nailed my issue with them. I obsess over reading, I read faster than the character says them etc. I just find them very distracting.
English not being my first language subtitles are quite useful for me. also I watch a lot of foreign stuff in its original language nowadays, this wouldn't be possible without subtitles at all.
I only do it, when watching something in english (i'm german). So I can look it up if I don't understand something correctly.
My wife isn’t a native English speaker, so we usually watch with subtitles in her native language when they’re available. (Kudos to Netflix, Apple, and Amazon for the wide selection of subtitle languages on their original shows.)
This works great: I am not literate enough in her language to find the subtitles distracting, and she can follow along with less effort than when the subtitles are in English. Unfortunately it breaks down as soon as the characters start speaking another language. Then I have to pause, rewind a bit, and set the subtitle language to English for the duration of the scene.
I suggest that your wife changes to titles in English. It will improve her comprehension as she can match the dialog to the text. I know it's distracting but it will improve her ability to follow English conversations in different accents.
I got Menieres disease and went deaf in one ear, That's why I use them, The Mrs got so used to them she likes to have them on too now.
I think the TV used to be more of a "whole family" activity. I like to keep the sound down and subtitles on as a way to be considerate towards other people in the house.
