Valve's new hardware will NOT be loss leaders

But will the new valve hardware help fill the empty pit in my chest?

... Duck... Goose.

I would be happy to wait and see but idiots online keep trying to insist it'll be $2,000 even though the hardware isn't close to worth that much. Some of these people are big influencers and really should know better.

Lol this reminds me of that time the US Air Force built a giant compute cluster using PlayStation 3s. Idk if Sony sold those at a loss, but they certainly didn't see any game purchases coming from the US Department of Defense

I was thinking that they might require a Steam account to order, the same way they stopped scalpers for Steam Deck, but there'd be ways around that.

It'd be hilarious if you needed something like "profile level 10" to order though.

Exactly, but I don't see anything keeping them from selling the Frame at a loss or tight margin. What else are you going to use that with but Steam games?

Even the Steam Controller is useless without Steam Input, but I'd argue it won't necessarily sell more games. Maybe they could include it with the Steam Machine for "free" to bump the price of the machine up enough to not make sense for a company, but still sell it at a tight margin to sell more games.

Was it confirmed that you can install Windows? The video said software, I don’t remember that you could install any operating system. It comes with an Arch Linux.

I see what you mean, but this device is a little overtuned for an office PC, at least GPU wise.

that will cost more than a console

Is that part of the quote? Because I just saw "priced like an entry level PC, not like a console", which was more ambiguous than saying "priced like a console". One man's entry level PC is $300, and another's is $1000. I have a mini PC with the power of a PS4 Pro, which I'd easily consider entry level, and it cost me $530 about a year and a half ago.

Personally I don't think I would say that most people would consider a $1,000 PC to be entry level. To me entry level means something that a kid could save up their pocket money for in a reasonable amount of time maybe with a paper route to supplement. I'd say entry level ends at about $700 just to throw a number out there. For $1,000 you could get a PS5 and a PSVR2

Probably true, but there is a chance they might convert some console gamers...

But not enough to bet on it with a loss leader probably.

Console manufacturers haven't sold at a loss in a long time.

I agree, it won't be huge gains directly for them, but even moving people off of Windows benefits them by removing control a competitor (Microsoft) has. I somewhat agree that it won't be sold at (much of) a loss, but maybe at cost. I'm sure they expect manufacturing prices to go down over time, and engineering was a one-time investment, so sold just below cost doesn't seem unreasonable to me at launch, which then becomes at cost or above in the future.

This all depends on if their goals for it are short-term or long. Historically, they seem to target long-term. That's why I think it'll be as low as they can make it, which they also said they're doing by only having 8GB VRAM as cost savings. They want to drop the price as low as they can to compete. They won't compete at $1k. I doubt they'd compete at $600-700. I suspect they're targeting $400-500, which seems like a reasonable cost for the hardware too.

They may be trying to muscle in on traditional console territory.

Steam has a well tenured reputation for having inexpensive games. They may be leveraging this to appeal to the console players turned off by the all recent price hikes.

I suspect the gabecube may be close to if not, at cost. I don't think it'll be at a loss.

Gabe has previously claimed that they developed the index because they didn't want VR to die and even gave grants the game developers who made VR titles.

So it's established that Steam is big enough and secure enough to risk cultivating new or disrupting old markets.

Operationally steam has low overhead and insane profit margin. Unless they fuck up the steam store they're guaranteed massive profit.

If the new hardware flops and they lose a bit of money; Gabe just buys one less yacht and steam ticks on as normal.

I think that was overstated. Sure there were some "fun" projects for fun or publicity.

However supercomputer clusters require higher performance interconnect than PS3 could do. At that time it would have been DDR infiniband (about 20 Gbps) or 10 g myrinet.

Sure gigabit was prevalent, but generally at places that would also have little tolerance for something as "weird" as the cell processor.

OtherOS was squashed out of fear of the larger jailbreak surface.

Doesn't the new controller have internal batteries?

It's a small computer, it isnt going after the Xbox or PS5 customers. It's going for the people who want a computer in their living room.

Is the machine competing with consoles? I thought it was just packaging an adorable sized pre built PC.

For Valve it would ideally lead to a new Steam account being created. Which would make sense if someone got one as a gift or something, naturally they would set up a Steam Account if they didnt already have one.

To be a loss leader doesn't the need to lead to something?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Just playing devil's advocate here. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but there are some interesting factors at play.

1. The Steam Machine won't need a screen or battery, two of the most expensive components on the Deck. So that can go into better CPU/GPU/RAM instead.
2. Valve proved they can make a successful physical hardware product with the deck. That gives them a lot of negotiating power with AMD to get the best deal they can.
3. Unlike with the Deck, they're releasing three new gadgets in almost all major countries simultaneously. That means they may have already started manufacturing months ago, and are benefiting from economy of scale at an entirely new level.

I’m fully expecting an 800+ USD price tag. And I’ve made my peace with that.

It's newer hardware in a bigger form factor.

It should be 6x as powerful, that shouldn't be a surprise.

On the one hand, i get it. It will be for enthusiasts only if that's the case.

Note that I haven't said anything about what the price will be, just that Valve has stated that it won't be a loss leader.

I've seen rumors that the Bill Of Materials plus Valve's usual overhead would still result in a system valued at $500, though I haven't seen the source and am very skeptical of it.

On the other side, XBox is allegedly targeting $1200 on their standardized custom gaming PC, which I doubt would be worth the price, especially with it running Windows.

…and you got one.

Why would anyone who’s in the market for a by-itself motherboard ever want something you can get as a modular piece as a built-in to another expensive piece?

Besides, if you want everything soldered on you can just buy a laptop motherboard.

Or a Mac

Built-in GPU and VRAM with the CPU, RAM and cooling optional.

I don't think that'd be a wise idea. After watching Valve interviews, it's clear that they designed the entire system around a specific max TDP. Apparently they figured out the TDP, picked a fan to move it, then designed the rest of the cooling system based on that.

If you start swapping out different CPU's that'll change the TDP and very quickly become a problem. Plus, the CPU is soldered to the board. Having a socket to allow for swapping would require a redesign of the cooling to account for the increased height

A product sold at a loss/very attractive price to attract customers. The idea is that they customers will come due to the cheap price of a desirable product and buy additional other stuff at the store, which should hopefully make up for the loss.

E.g. a restaurant advertise cheap burgers to attract customers, and then make the profit on alcoholic beverages that customers buy alongside the cheap burger.

..But then in turn they'll earn money with Steam sales, so they'll be earning money.