Wagner troops ‘plotting march to Russia to avenge leader’s death’

I wish them the best of luck. Not that they have any chance of success but the more damage they cause to the Russian army, the better

Was there actually anything stopping them before, other than some traffic cops with a grenade launcher, and some excavator operators frantically digging up the motorway?
- No, but they chickened out and now Putin has had a month to set up defenses
- Wagner group doesn't have any air assets, the Air Force probably could annihilate them on the way to Moscow. Not much cover in Russia
- You forget that Russia had some garbage trucks lined up as well 🧱
FSB as an organization needs to die to the man before anything good can happen in Russia.
- Not all personnel. Top 1 - 3, maybe.
Wouldn’t they have a better chance if Biden funded them?
- I hope that you realize at some level how batshit insane that idea is.
- Perhaps, but that sounds like it would backfire pretty much immediately.
- Considering they're arguably even worse than Putin, we probably don't want them to actually have a chance at being successful, it's just that any forces Russia has to use to stop them are forces they aren't using in Ukraine. Giving them funding would be a seriously bad move.
- If Biden funds them Biden funds a direct attack on Russia, due to the increased pressure Russia will take that as an attack from the US and will escalate. We want to deescalate everything we can because we don’t know if putin will use his nukes, and if he does the world ends. Putin will not win a war with the us though, so he may not care about the end of the world.

Take it with a grain of salt, people, none of the trustworthy sources confirmed any of that - just a couple of Ukrainian outlets (understandable as psyop) and, well, yahoo news and the like.

As a Russian living in Russia and, obviously, closely following all the shit show, it does not seem like Wagner is going to do anything.

Then again, I'm not sure about shit after 24 Feb 2022.

I am curious if you think Putin will allow Wagner Corp to continue operating as it has, or if they will all now fall under his direction. And if it's the latter, will they be paid and who will be writing the check?
- PREFACE: Prior to 24 Feb 2022, I was really skeptical that Putin would start the war at all, though, so I might be really wrong here - I'm no expert, just a regular rusky Ivan with some opinions. Things in Russia aren't really predictable at the moment.
  
  And if it’s the latter, will they be paid and who will be writing the check?
  
  Unfortunately, all the tax-payers - remember, the government has no money of its own, only the money of its citizen and tax residents.
  
  I am curious if you think Putin will allow Wagner Corp to continue operating as it has, or if they will all now fall under his direction.
  
  Judging by the mutiny in June, I think the mercs will receive offers to join the regular military as contractors or something along these lines. The PMC itself will be probably be manipulated into control one way or another, either via a direct acquisition or some other scheme, all in attempt to smother the beast Putin himself had created.
  
  Then again, Putin is not a smart guy people make him out to be - he's very prone to mistakes, especially after 20+ years of constant ass-licking from the various abundant yes-men (and the assassinations of the no-men). Look no further than the various regional battalion he's ordered to conjure, which is supposed to be carried out by the governors, essentially creating local not-so-private militaries. Sure, they're not mercs and really far from being experienced combatants with all the subsequent traumas like the Wagner mercs are, and most likely have way less sense of freedom and lawlessness because they hadn't lived that lifestyle before (and won't know), but it still is an armed group of people that is deliberately put into some separate division based on their region - civil war isn't any near now, but dividing armed people into areas rather than just putting everyone in the same military power is not a good idea, especially not in the situation Russia finds itself in.
  
  All that being said, the most important point is the following: Russia as a governmental entity has been very carefully engineering a society with as few leaders as possible, and succeeded well enough to make sure that our people just don't really act on their desires and urges to protest en masse and for long; while it's one thing for us, civilians, who aren't armed, aren't hardened by combat, aren't used to real violence, the Wagner mercs aren't really taught to be free-thinking individuals either, so even if they all want to storm Kremlin, I just don't see that happening unless a figure powerful enough to lead them emerges.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Honest at this point I wouldn't even blink if Prigozhin popped up in the future to tell us they faked their deaths.

To be clear, I believe that he's dead (and that it was probably an assassination by Putin), but so many other outrageous things have happened already little surprises me.

That's the first thing I thought when I heard about his death. He should have known that Putin would likely want him dead, so pretending to board a plane that gets shot down is a pretty good way to fake your death. Does he use his fake death to plot revenge or to escape, never to be heard from again?
- Who knows if Putin even wanted him dead. It could be a way for him to step out of the spotlight and let Putin show what happens to those who disobey. They have a huge issue with deserters.
  
  I wouldn't be surprised if they were found eating kaviar off each others nibbles.
I'd hoped he piloted a Kamikaze plane into Putin's card fortress so both of them could go to hell to meet Hitler whom they admired so much
At this point it's such a clown show that I wouldn't be surprised by much.
Prigozhin was thought dead from a plane crash before and arrived 2 days later.

Fucken do it then

I'd believe it when I see it. It's not going to happen.
- We all saw what happened last time. Someone got cold feet and then became a pussy.

Doubtful. They are mercenaries and won't be getting paid anymore. Mercenaries have no allegiance to anybody.

Just because the leader was presumably killed, doesn't mean they stop getting paid. Do you get fired from your job if your boss dies?
- If your boss is the CEO and owner, maybe yeah.
- They're in the hire of Russia, do you imagine Russia is going to pay them to march on Moscow
- And who do you suppose is paying them? Putin?
Idk about that one, they're employed by Wagner, Wagner is essentially the business entity that allows them to operate as a mercenary group. Who knows how much loyalty they have to their own command structure? If I were the owner of a private Merc army, I would try to instill as much loyalty as I can so they don't turn on me.
- He's just saying things that sound nice in his head but have no basis in reality.
Mercenaries have no allegiance to anybody.

I mean, that's not entirely true. Some mercenaries actually have allegiance to their companies and really care about their goals.

You'd actually be way more accurate talking about soldiers in the state's military than mercenaries.
- This is historically ignorant. Before professional armies, mercenaries would literally have their camps set up in a country that hired them, only to turn and ransack a nearby town after an enemy spy came in and paid them more to do it. Western society literally invented professional armies because of mercenaries.
It could be a move to force Putin to pay them off now they are masterless.
I'm sure there would be lots to loot, or taking ownership of profitable ex government corporations...

March on Moscow 2, Electric Boogaloo.

2 March 2 Mercenary
- 2 March 2 Mercenary
  
  ...: St. Petersburg Grift

It would be so ironic if the plane crash was entirely an accident and not planned in any way, but no one believes it because of Putins history. And if they kill him for something he wasn’t actually involved in because of his past crimes ruining his credibility it would be oh-so-sweet

The 'tator that cried wolf.

Here we go again.

It will end not differently than last time.

When they had their leader, they might have had a chance to taking down Putin. Maybe. Slim chance, but a chance. Now they are fucked.

Still would be nice to put a hurt on the Russian military.

Any military units they manage to destroy is good for the rest of the world.
- Not necessarily, because (I suspect) less soldiers Putin have more he would be willing to press that red button.

My Russian friend pointed out to me that Prigozhin was actually on his way to see Putin when he got shot down.

So they all went in one plane...
- Yeah that part makes no sense, how dumb do you have to be to put the two main leaders in the same fucking plane flying near the capital

I mean let the fascist kill the fascist ig

ig

instagram??
- I guess

Darth Sidious "do it" meme

They should join up with the Ukrainians.

No, in this case the enemy of their enemy is just another enemy.
- Better maintain that line
- Not really, if they join forces.
Nah, they were even more gung-ho about the invasion than regular Russians.
- My question is who is going to pick up the tab for these mercs? I can't see Putin doing it himself, as he wouldn't want to set precedent... but they are spoiled. I would assume it will be bad for Russia if they don't keep the money flowing.

As long as they’re not killing Ukrainians, then I guess yeah, go do whatever…

This is a greater overall danger than many of you seem to realize. Their leader was a face and figurehead, the real power of Wagner mercenaries lies with the lieutenants. Without him, they are likely to splinter and become more brutal. Some are likely to be hired by the anti-Putin oligarchs, while others may align with Putin. This may result in Russia having to pull out of Ukraine, but that's not the end of this. Even if Putin is slammed out of power, that just results in an internal power struggle with deadly consequences. Those will not stay inside their borders.

Woohoo unstable country with huge nuclear stockpile.
- Is the nuclear stockpile as good as the military equipment they use in Ukraine?
All true, but it does not depend on this specific group of folks or the inciting incident of their leader's death. Violent internal power struggle spilling across borders is practically guaranteed no matter who the actors are. Even if Putin lives a long life and dies of natural causes, that's coming.

https://media.tenor.com/AXMEDSnkaH4AAAAC/godzilla-let-them-fight.gif

You know you can embed this by using !()[link text goes here] like:

or by downloading it and uploading it:
- Thanks, I thought my app would convert it into an embed link automagically. I’ll edit my comment.
- Sweet, I was wondering how that was done.
- Thank you Ding Dong 🙏

God I hope they go through with this.

They won't. This isn't a card you can play twice, and UK.news.yahoo.com isn't any kind of reliable news source.
- It's sourced from the Evening Standard, but that's not much better.

The less wagnerites operating on Ukrainian soil the better. The less wagnerites helping illegal migrants to cross Polish-Belarusian border the better. The less wagnerites the better.

Fuck wagner but also fuck the polish border guards for murdering migrants.

I dont give a fuck if they're considered "legal" or not - they deserve to be treated like refugees not like a political pawn for both sides.
- https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/polish-border-guards-killed-thousands-of-illegal-migrants looks like the 'but also' is disinformation
- I totally agree. Human lives are human lives. People trying to escape abuse for a better life are just as innocent as anyone else.
- Exactly. Poland itself is pretty damn far-right, and while they might be helping Ukraine and Ukrainians, this doesn't mean their government is not borderline fascist. Someone else below (@TimeNaan@lemmy.world) provided this link documenting some severe human rights abuses against lots of migrants (some of these are also from the Belarus side too, it's not just Poland).
  
  Any situation in which a state denies access to people watching for such abuses - like this - is one that sends immediate and severe warning signs to me. Combined with the other stuff going on around LGBT+ free zones, well, it's worrying imo >.<
  
  Some of this stuff is even worse than what I've heard of the US/Mexico border, though it's all pretty horrific.
- I don't give a fuck about your considerations either. Our border our rules. Also lol'd at "killing". If anyone died there it was because of their own stupidity of trying to cross it from Belarus which isn't a war torn country but they didn't want safety but rather monies from western Europe.

because it went so well before

It actually did. They only stopped because he made a deal with Putin. They covered hundreds of kilometers in hours.

That IS successful to that point. They were just so f*cking stupid, they thought Putin wouldn't kill them anyways for the betrayal... If he had even 1/6th of a functional brain, he should've realized the MOMENT he abandoned his orders in Ukraine, it was him or Putin.

They'd be more effective taking over Belarus if they really want to cause Putin problems.

Dumb asses, quiet sabotage would get you get you so much further, especially if you can figure out how to signal out and communicate with each other. Hey maybe I'm underestimating them and this is a feint to distract from something but big doubt.

Agigatedpotato has toppled countless government. He needs to be heard
- Just thinking like Im a soldier who wants to avenge my commander who I'm presuming was killed for his very public soft coup attempt, and I just think I would probably rather avoid planning my own very public soft coup.

As much as I would love that to happen, this is basically a death wish

I mean, Putin killing Prigozhom basically signaled none of them are safe. At this point if you are going to die falling out of the sky or die raiding Moscow, the latter might have a higher chance of survival.
- If only Prigozhin had had more of a spine, he might still be alive and much better off besides.
Which is why I fully support it and hope they take out Putin in the process. Mutual annihilation of the top level leaders on both sides would be best for everyone, including for the Russian people themselves.
Even this much talk about it is probably going to see more of their organizers killed.
- Which is why it's put up or shut up time. Though more like put up or die time, really. I wish them luck.
Sounds good either way to me.
- Let them fight.

I am so sorry about this. But how much integrity can a mercenary army have? I mean what's point in fighting for your ex-employer? If you ask me there is no way they can actually rile-up that many mercenaries to do any significant damage. (but would love to hear other peoples thoughts)

This is how a gang operates. It's all about consensus building by braggadocio. Someone says they're going to do something, and sees if enough others join them. Then they threaten the person who is their rival based on the number of people behind them. Unfortunately for the wagner fellows who proposed this, they don't have anywhere near enough backing them to get putin to back down. They're fucked.
they have no heavy equipment - they gave up everything from mortars up after coup attempt, so no AD, no tanks, no artillery, no nothing. manpower left in russia was slurped up by army, these left in belarus have only rifles, tents and civilian trucks and were evicted lately. they ain't doing shit and it's only dumb posturing on telegram

Flight attendant Kristina Raspopova, 39, told her relatives of the unexplained hold-up, indicating that the aircraft was being “repaired” before the flight, according to VChK-OGPU Telegram channel.

Sounds like something I’d do if I wanted to plant a bomb for insurance, js.

Not going to happen. They've lost their heavy weaponry, their leadership and they've been split across Belarus and the regular Russian army.

Wagner had the elements of surprise and momentum, what they didn't do was announce their intentions before invading fucking Russia and start taking things over while shooting the shit out of anyone in their way, so I rate this story 100% bullshit

If this really happens then it'll be a popcorn-worthy event. Let's you and him fight.

His followers are just looking to die by missile like there great leader

If Wagner stops getting paid wouldnt Russia lose its entry into Africa and other countries Wagner works in?

"Do it! Just do it!"

I wonder if they only get paid at the end of their contract.

If they actually do it then that might be the case.

I was wondering if that would happen. Hopefully whomever or whoever, if it's multiple people, are organizing Wagner at this point have more of a spine than their former erstwhile leader. Because they know the likely consequences now if they fail, since just letting bygones be bygones isn't a thing with Putin and the KGB.

So Wagner needs to go all out. And hopefully they do.