Spain restarts push to kill daylight saving time in EU
Spain restarts push to kill daylight saving time in EU
www.politico.eu
Spain restarts push to kill daylight saving time in EU
Comments
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Years ago, the EU parliament decided to abandon DST - with a vast majority. They sent it to the governments as "Homework" to determine whether to keep Summer- or Standard Time. Nothing came out of it.
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The EU parliament didn't vote to abandon DST, they voted for letting countries decide if they want to do DST or if they want to stick to one time zone. Apparently most countries decided to stick with DST.
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They were asking for feedback and I sure wrote a bunch and sent an email or wtv it was supporting the idea of killing it please for yesterday.
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They should obviously keep standard time. No one wants light at 10pm!!!
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I would 100% rather light at 10pm than 4am where it's totally wasted.
Current light breakdown in Ireland over the year:
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No one wants light at 10pm!!!
I do
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I live in Spain, having light at 11 pm is pretty cool.
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I stand corrected. People seem to love evening sunlight
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You live in the western end of your time zone, and at a pretty high latitude. That's the only way to get sunset after 10pm. Your summer sunrise must be about 3am. And you must only see about 5 hours of daylight during winter.
If you are experiencing sunset 2 hours before midnight, the eastern end of your time zone is experiencing sunrise two hours after midnight. Nobody wants sunrise at 2am.
I would say that you should not be in your time zone. Your region should be in the next time zone to the west. Their DST schedule is your standard time schedule.
Alternatively, there is nothing stopping the eastern end of your time zone from joining the next zone to the east, so that their year-round clocks make more sense for them.
Any viable plan to lock the clocks is going to have to include provisions for our regions to select the time zone we want to use.
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It is a bit more complicated. Back in the time (no pun intended) they made a mess by putting most of Europe in one time zone, from west of Spain to east of Poland. Which is 9° west to 28° east, more than 2 and a half time zones. Technically, Europe should split into at least two time zones. And this is going to be a mess.
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Light at 10pm isn't useful, but neither is light at 4am
Dawn at 5:30 or later would be best
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I heard there’s more car crashes in the morning if you get rid of daylight savings time
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I heard the opposite though
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I heard a lot of things surrounding daylight savings, but I belive that it's just bad for us.
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YES FINALLY!
Funny coincidence that they started doing that after i commited myself to life in winter time for ever. Wake up at 5 summer time and 6 winter time
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It's about time.
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No. It's one hour too early.
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Not a minute too late!
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What's the "logical" time zone?
The one closer to Spanish solar time, or the one shared by most EU countries, which facilitates trade and cross-border cooperation?-
We don't have our current time zone because of that. We have it because a fascist dictator wanted to be on the same time zone as Hitler.
And the logical timezone is of course GMT, the one closer to Spanish solar time. It's been proven that it's not healthy to be in a timezone that doesn't correspond to your solar time, unless you adapt all the schedules to follow the sun.
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It doesn't even matter which they pick, just pick one! We're free to live our lives independently from the clock. There's no natural law that states work starts at 8.
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Isn't the most important industry dependent(photosynthesis doesn't wait for you) on the clock? I guess you mean the numbers we choose don't really matter, then I agree.
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Yes, it could say alpha for all I care. As you say, the sun dictates the day, not our clock, but the grindset is so entrenched that it's easier to change clocks than individual work settings.
If Spain chooses to continue to synchronize opening hours with central Europe, they can do that regardless of what the number on the clock is.
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Pick real time and let people adjust their schedules. It's easier and the science backs it up.
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Pick real time
And have to put up with Bill Maher? No thanks.
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Solar time.
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UTC for all.
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Man that would fucking blow for so many people.
The date would change in the middle of a business day
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Live service game enjoyers everywhere: yourfirsttimequestionmark.gif
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Fun fact: In some countries you can say "see you tomorrow" when going for lunch.
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Like it changes at midnight?
I mean that’s not really the issue
The issue is like restaurants opening for dinner at 7AM and such
It would be a big cultural shift
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At the mere mention of changing the summer time, you get all bar and restaurant people shouting to not touch it.
But actually we're in the wrong time zone too, so summer time is actually just having office hours from 07:00 to 15:00 solar time but with more lying.
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What's preferred by Europeans, permanent standard time or permanent daylight time?
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For me summer time (where we have light during the evening) is the best! Nothing comes even close to it
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I really don't care, just stop the switching.
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Depends which side of EU. Same time for Spain and Poland makes little sense.
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Spain should be GMT though, it's quite literally below Greenwich.
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Only if you care having daily events at the same time everywhere. For coordinating across countries it's much easier to be all in the same timezones and just know that those to the east will wake, eat and so on earlier than those in the west, because there's going to be differences anyway.
That's my opinion after working internationally all my life. -
Summertime makes sense for both
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As a german, I'd prefer permanent daylight time, I want there to be longer light in the evening. I hate when during the winter months I leave the appartment when it is still dark outside and come back home when it's already dusk.
That said, I can see why this wouldn't work across the entire EU, Spain for example is already "an hour behind" in terms of daylight, because of their location, their DST means it's probably light outside at 22:00
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Fun fact, so is France Netherlands and Belgium. They should be on British time if the lines were drawn properly.
The reason they're on German time? Nazis. They're were switched to German time while occupied during WW2, and while debate raged afterward they ultimately stayed on German time.
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In Iceland we have permanent Summer time and it's great. We go to work in the dark in either case during winter but having some daylight until 4 or 5 makes a big difference.
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I think scientific research is quite clear that a permanent standard / winter time is healthier and objectively the better choice.
Personally, I'd still prefer a permanent summer/ daylight saving time. During summer, when days are long, I don't really care. But in winter it's usually still dark when I start working and already dark when I finish. With permanent summer time, it might be slightly harder to get up in the morning, but I could at least get a bit of light in the afternoon.
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Standard (brighter mornings) is better for health
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Agreed.
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Permanent no-time-change time
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Closest to solar time is the truth and it's annoying that something else is even considered a discussion
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It's in the article
Indeed, 84 percent of the 6.4 million Europeans who participated in a 2018 European Commission public consultation on the matter said the bloc should put an end to daylight saving time.
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Eh often that's said just to mean end switching, without specifying which one to end up on.
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Yes.
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Honestly, either way people and companies could adjust their hours to fit their needs.
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Do it
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Just make it happen already!
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While summer time is better for daylight after work, winter time is the one where at 12 the sun is at the highest point.
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At least in Germany, there is no winter time. There is normal time (Normalzeit) and summer time (Sommerzeit).
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Depends on where you live. If youre west of Germany but on the mainland, winter is the one where the sun is highest between 1 and 2. Summer time is even worse though, between 2 and 3.
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Maybe at some point we abandon timezones all together... One can only hope...
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Marvelous idea, let's disregard well established language and time critical systems already relying on the existence of timezones that can't easily be updated for... Being able to tell people your time without actually conveying information.
"Hey wanna play some videya" I ask my friends on another continent during noon "Sorry, its not quite dark yet but already too late for hideogame" -my friend, for whom the sun is still visible, but its a little bit too late, wishing there was a way to easily convey the fact that it is 21:00
Time zones may suck for programmers, but everyone who thinks even a little bit about human to human communication realizes how stupid it is. But I digress, were on lemmy; we dont do human to human communication often
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we dont do human to human communication often
Apparently not. Why wouldn't you just say, "sorry, going to sleep soon" in your example? How is saying it's 21:00 local time critical to communicate that it's too late for games? Why would that inherently communicate that? 21:00 is a pretty normal time for me to be playing games
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And saying "let's play at 06:00" still doesn't make any sense because once again, 6 for me and for you is different
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Fun read, I appreciate how much effort people put into saying nah uh, I don't want/like change...
I will continue hoping quietly.
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That was extremely dumb and illogical, tbh. I can think of several ways to implement the change just offhand. Author just picked the dumbest way he could think of so he could oppose the issue.
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Best link in the whole discussion.
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I don't get the downvotes. They abolished timezones in China (around 1950?) and 5 geographical timezones are just going on Beijing time and have been for a while.
Although I'm not sure if they still use "local time", idk, and then it kind of defeats the purpose..-
They kinda do use local time anyway from what I know, yes
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To be honest, that's not the worst idea. It would have a ton of implications, but long term this would work fine.
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It's a really stupid idea because it robs the numbers of meaning. We already have UTC for transworld clarity. Abolishing time zones just complicates all of everyone's daily life whilst making only a few things easier. It even complicates communication about what time it is in different time zones because you took the numerical offset away.
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I don't hope for this. Traveling to another country would really be weird, because you'd have to convert everything all the time while you're there. Like, what should I set my alarm to in order to wake up when I usually wake up in the morning? Instead of just setting it to 6 am or whatever, like normal.
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You know the whole world isnt the USA, right?
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You would think they do considering they are registered with a .uk instance. What does what they said have to do with America?
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Let's keep summer time, It's already dark before 18, once we'll switch to winter time it'll be dark before 17. The benefit is that instead of going to work and starting to work when it's dark ,we'll go to work when it's dark and start to work at dawn. Not worth-it
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There's a large population where this has no meaning. The sun rises at 10 AM and sets at 1 PM in the winter here where I live. There's nothing to gain for us, only problems and missed meetings and school mornings and extra stress on kids and parents having to adjust their sleeping routines days in advance. It sucks ass, absolutely not worth it even if we did live in the very specific latitudes where this is perfect. Down with daylight savings! ✊
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Just get up like it would be summertime.
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No one stops you from getting up 1h earlier in the morning.
Permanent summer time would force everyone to do it.-
You got down voted but no-one actually counters that argument.
Why should everyone be forced to get up earlier because some of the population want to? They can already do that!
And to people who say "mORe LiGhT iN tHe evEnINgS" - for most of us in Europe it'll only buy you a few weeks at most and then it'll be dark by the time you finish work/school anyway.
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Thats a thing you cant decide right for all of europe.
It doesnt matter what you choose, some people and countrys will be mad, and other glad.
Just do it already
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Even within countries, people disagree. People have different needs.
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I suggest we start using a new metric:
It’s been x amount of seconds since the USA empire fell.
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YESSSSSS
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So it's the year 65 right now?
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So it’s the year 65 right now?
So you're saying that the USA fell when Black people got Civil Rights? 🤔
Sus 👀
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¡Hazlo!
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Any particular reason why a sovereign country can't just decide to do this on its own? Why does it have to be a pan-european thing?
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Time chaos in EU.
Imagine organizing military responses or shipping logistics when you can go under an hour then forward and then under an hour again just crossing 3 countries.
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Time bandits even!
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Eh, it works fine in Arizona. The US uses daylight savings, but Arizona doesn't, except for some of the reservations in Arizona that do. You can go forward and back an hour twice just crossing Arizona
Ninja edit: As I say that, I remember why I even know that - I once spent an entire morning working out a bug in one of my daily jobs. Turned out because a team member in Arizona wrote the script and scheduled it, and a different team member not in Arizona wrote an orchestration to collect results, they ended up off-sync once daylight savings hit. Maybe it doesn't work
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At this point I don't really care anymore. The EU has not solved this problem within the last 15 years and probably won't in the future. I understand it's important for some people but we have bigger problems.
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Yes, Veggie Burgers for example! /s
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That's Veggie Loaf (tm)
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sigh
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As I understand it there was broad agreement the last time, but the UK pulled out after Brexit and Ireland didn't want to have two different timezones for the North and Republic.
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Since nobody can agree on which time to keep I doubt it'll lead to anything. By now I've kinda gotten used to it anyway.
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Nobody agrees on which one is better but I’d say a majority agrees that sticking to one is better
That’s like saying we can’t agree if we want burgers or steak so let’s all have nothing instead
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That's exactly what it's like, which is why I suspect you'll all be enjoying a nice big slab of nothing.
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Meet in the middle, and be done with it. Instead of going back an hour this weekend. Go back a half hour, and just leave it there forever.
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I remember that at some point in the 90s or 2000s you could buy watches with beats time. A day was divided in 1000 beats and there where no timezones. So 300 beats could be breakfast for me and bedtime for you.
I think I would actually really like a global system like that.
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That doesn't really solve the problem, it's just relabeling the existing system. The bigger issue is that over the course of a year we don't change when we do things.
You're expected to arrive at work at a particular time, at no point did they ever say oh it's still dark at 7am feel free to come in an hour later. No business would ever do that, so they have to change the clocks so that 7:00 a.m. now happens later.
The whole decimalization and universal time thing would require businesses to make that accommodation. Which is not going to happen.
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Tell that to the people who lose an hours' worth of pay every year to the companies that happily adjust their timecards in the fall and then all too conveniently forget to fix them in the spring.
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"To kill me you must get up earlier, Spain!"
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That's all very well for Spain who are fairly close to the equator, but us northerners would like to see some daylight in winter.
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In the morning or afternoon? I find living in Montreal is getting more difficult as I get older, the short summers, the brutally long and dark winter is getting to me. It's not so much the dark but that winter is a wet soggy season now.
I would like for it to be lighter in the afternoons. It's brutal getting home in the pitch dark.
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I think the biggest problem with Montreal is that it's so fucking dirty in the winter, makes maintenance of vehicles a chore. If the city just embraced snow and let it get packed and rough, everyone would have an easier time with their winter and studded tires. Instead of having to wade through salt and the crushed rock that they put everywhere. And in the spring we wouldn't be breathing dust.
That said, I think summer is fairly long here. Mid May all the way to end of September. It's the spring that's missing here, since you can get snowstorms in April still. In contrast in most of continental Europe, there's a peak of cold around end of January / February, and then that's it. March is already the wet but bearable, with lots of blooming "snow flowers".
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Then use a time zone that makes sense for that?
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In continental europe this is quite different from up north, here in norway daylight savings extend the light in the morning another month
it's very nice if I get up early for work to have some light. -it's going to be dark when I leave for work fairly soon either way
can't ya'll down south do one thing and we keep it up here?
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Then opt for summer time year-round? Many people just hate the switching.
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I think you mean winter time, but no - the point here is defending the switch honestly.
before we switch we have a bit of sun both before and after work, if we had winter time all year then we'd have the sun up at 04 in august; a bit extreme wouldn't you say?
some people hate the switching, others - like me don't mind. And in fact I enjoy the benefits.
main point here is that spain really doesn't need it while up here we do.
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Representatives from northern EU members including Finland and Poland have repeatedly raised concerns about clock-changing, citing data which shows the practice has negative physical or mental effects on an estimated 20 percent of Europe's population.
It's not just a south thing
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You don't live far enough north in Norway if you have any light during the day for most of winter though
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I have in the past, so familar with midnight sun and no-sun.
and for those places you benefit from daylight savings far earlier in the season, and then they run their course.
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If sun sets at 10 and rises at 13, then that's december; at least for me, and before that we can still get that benefit of some light in the morning going to work.
I mean even living up north with no sun for the winter we got a little bit in the morning with winter time.
(we should get a sun fiesta in december tho, so we go out at 12 just to see the sun for the hour its there)
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I don't see why some people are so hung-up on this. We have much much bigger fish to fry.
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It's a good thing most things aren't a single track queue then. Are democratic governments slow? Yes. Do they handle 1000's of things in parallel? Also, yes.
Believe it or not, but not everything is a psyop to distract from the Epstein files.
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I will never understand the push to kill daylight savings. And of course it would be Spain that's pushing for this a country where they're not really affected by it, but they want to take it away for the entirety of Europe. There have been pretty conclusive studies that indicate that you should wake with the rise of the sun. Unfortunately our lives don't work like that, you get up at 7:00 a.m. whatever the sun is doing, so I would prefer it if we kept 7:00 a.m. to be about the time the sun comes up. Why is that a controversial take?
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It has measurable negative effects on health.
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Not everyone gets up at 7 am? Probably not even the majority. At least over here elementary starts at 7:30 and most people have their kids in daycare by that time as well. Moreover, time zones are big - so what might be a sunrise at 7 for you might be, depending on the relative location, a sunrise at 7:30 (or 6:30).
This is also why this is so immensely complicated. For some EU countries winter time would be better, for others, summer time. While they are in the same time zone. If you let every country choose what time they will pick or whether or not they will keep daylight saving you'll get a patchwork of relatively small countries all operating at different times. Imagine living in Luxemburg, it's 5 pm, in Belgium it is 5, in France 4, in Germany 6, in the Netherlands 4 again, then Spain hits you with 6 and Austria salutes you at 5. Have fun with that.
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Ugh. People could benefit from learning to function without their "routines". I say keep it. It's a complete non-issue. I actually think it's kinda fun.
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Conservativism in a nutshell. Things should stay the way they are because they don't bother me.
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It is a health issue to get jetlag forced on you twice a year
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And vaccines makes the frogs gay or whatever. One hour jetlag? Really?
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Yes, please, do it already!