2d ago

Living the Dream (of other people)

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I mean, that's not necessarily bad, right? 80% people think that it would be better for them if someone worked in a factory and 25% think it would be better if they personally worked in a factory. So, if the 25% get a chance to work in a factory, they're satisfied and the 80% is satisfied as well.
- Assuming the 80% could be satisfied...is a big assumption.
  
  True enough, though I meant it more in the sense of the graph. People can rarely be satisfied.
- You could also think that the country would be better off with people working manufacturing instead of gig jobs like Uber or minimum wage at restaurants since manufacturing in the US typically meant unions and better pay.
  
  Not in modern day USA. I mean there are people working to re-legalise child labour.
  
  That's true, but we can still push for higher wages to attract people to those jobs instead of allowing companies to twist labor like they are.
  Are we going to? Probably not, but I can see the point of view someone who believes it might hold.
- I think you would need far more than 25% to get to where the average “why don’t we make things anymore” dork dreams about
  Like 25% of the Chinese workforce is in manufacturing (roughly) but they’ve got the infrastructure and have put decades into systems to build what they have.
  America would be building it from the ground up. Automation systems take time to iron out kinks and cost a lot up front.
  And all this to find out that American made is just a meaningless phrase because it’s not about where an item is physically made, it’s about standards to which the items construction is dictated. China can make things of extremely high quality. They’re just consistently tasked to make things by cutting as many corners as possible to maximize profits at the expense of consumers. Those same shitty practices applied to American manufacturing will result in “made in America” shit. Case in point you can find plenty of stuff currently manufactured in America that is total shit. You can find stuff manufactured in America that is high quality and you can find stuff manufactured in China that is high quality. The country of manufacture is meaningless and this pissing match is pointless
  
  I think you would need far more than 25% to get to where the average “why don’t we make things anymore” dork dreams about
  American manufacturing has been on a consistently upward trajectory and has never been higher. Many things made in America either are highly skilled, highly automated, or both. The hubbub about "bringing manufacturing back" is all just a smokescreen to redirect the anger from Americans who used to have stable, well paying, union factory jobs, who never will have one again.
  
  I'm not disagreeing, sorry if that was the impression, I was merely pointing out that the passive-agressive "someone's American dream, just not mine" does not really apply to the graph.
  
  I think you would need far more than 25% to get to where the average “why don’t we make things anymore” dork dreams about
  Germany is at 21% and that's after a fairly sizable decline over time:
  https://eures.europa.eu/living-and-working/labour-market-information-europe/labour-market-information-germany_en
  Given how automated everything is today, 25% of the population working in manufacturing is a pipedream.
- It looks like an emperor's new clothes scenario to me. People agree with each other that the US should manufacture more because they have picked up that that's the respectable answer; not because they see any actual sense in it.
  Or maybe it's some sort of nostalgia. I guess people used to say that more people should work in agriculture, because that was somehow their idea of a proper, wholesome country.
  People who play medievalist games somehow never pretend to be serfs or farm-hands.
  There are a few areas where you would want manufacturing in the country. Defense, some medical supplies, ... Just in case things go bad, you'd want some capacity, some expertise in the country to be less dependent. You'd spend extra resources just in case, just to be safe. But it's never a rational end in itself.
  
  As someone with a bunch of friends who had factory gigs before NAFTA and still a few today, there’s plenty of people who are happy in factory situations, you know?
  It’s fair to say there’s a lot of inaccurate assumptions on the right wing side here, but factory work isn’t always a horror show. It’s obvious they want to do as much as they can to make it awful, like deregulating things and whatnot. And obviously, the infrastructure isn’t there and won’t spring up overnight. That’s no good, but the factory labor itself? Probably fine in a lot of cases.
  
  It's fine if and only if you have these infrastructure and regulations in place. It's good if and only if the above plus also being a union job.
  The people trying to drive this industry up again are attempting to do so while removing regulations and crippling or killing unions. The factory jobs won't be "fine" when you're paid a dollar an hour and have a new 13 year old coworker every week because the previous one got himself killed at work.
- That 25% may not know that most US manufacturing is outsourced to nations with a lower valued currency, lax health and safety regulations, child labor, and/or slave labor. It’s probably still a cushy upgrade for coal miners.

74 comments