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  • What disgusts me most about conservative voters and capitalists is most of them are so ignorant to admit that capitalism requires balance by virtue. You cannot exist in an environment where everyone is free to have money and buy things with that money and there will always ben enough supply for demand without serious guardrails to ensure it. What MAGA stands for is the idea that capitalism should be highly regulated, highly balanced, and highly fair. These people believe that to their core. They just… don’t vote that way. They’re so arrogant, so propagandized, they’ll continue to vote for the people that wish to continue destabilizing the balance.

    • I pity conservative voters. They've been brainwashed by Fox News for decades if not their entire lives

    • I actually find that both MAGA folks and modern conservatives are big on Laissez-faire capitalism.

    • What MAGA stands for is the idea that capitalism should be highly regulated, highly balanced, and highly fair.

      Oh fuck right off, no they do not.

      That's market socialism you're describing, and MAGA bigots definitely don't stand for it, much less understanding that "capitalism" isn't synonymous with "market economy", much much less caring about actual economics, and more just getting to be in a group of likeminded bigots.

      • I agree, in that most MAGA don’t really believe in much of anything, if a belief must stand a rigorous showing of competence. However, America has been a country championing socialist policy for almost 100 years. Even those spouting Trumpian garbage believe in liberalism. They just have labels and made-up feelings provided to them by the capitalist overclass, convincing them to destroy themselves.

        • However, America has been a country championing socialist policy for almost 100 years.

          Uh, what?

          You have horrible social security and labour laws. If anyone has been "championing socialist policies", it's the Nordics, or if talking labour rights especially, France definitely more than the US.

          The American anti-socialist rhetoric is so bad it has its own name. Even very moderate socialist policies are often disparaged as "communism".

          There's so much libertarianism online now, mostly affected by said American rhetoric, that I've actually met an idiot here in Finland who genuinely argued that homelessness and unemployment is a conscious choice by anyone suffering either.

          You sound a bit like Peter Thiel in this clip (played on John Oliver) where he is pretending Trump's rhetoric has deeper meaning.

          Since most aren't gonna listen here's the transcript:

          Peter Thiel: I think a lot of the voters who vote for Trump, take Trump seriously, but not literally. And so when they hear things like the Muslim comment or the wall comment or things like that, It's not, the question is not, you know, are you gonna build a wall like the Great Wall of China, or, you know, how exactly are you gonna enforce these tests? What they hear is, we're gonna have, we're gonna have a saner, more sensible immigration policy.

          Cut back to John Oliver

          Oliver: Oh, yeah, that is definitely the sense I got from watching those Trump rallies. Yes, while we are all furiously chanting, "build that wall", we all understand in this context, wall is a clever use of metonymy, or a figure of speech in which 1 word, wall in this example, is used as a stand-in for a saner, more sensible immigration policy. Now, if you will, let's unpack "Trump the removed".

          • So you just downvote me, because you didn’t quite understand.

            Brother, I’m happy the government of Finland is strong in the face of Russian fascists. But Republicans are not. And in America today, waving around John Oliver clips about “how obviously America is trash for 18 reasons” only exists to destroy a narrative with Trumpian citizens — those same citizens that wish to use their voting power to demolish the institution. They already have SCOTUS. Technically, they’ve already won the election.

            • So you just downvote me, because you didn’t quite understand.

              Made my drink spill out my nose for laughing so hard.

              No, "brother", it's you who doesn't understand. And this not understanding — willfully so even — is a hallmark of the American spirit.

              Saying "the US has been championing socialist policies for 100 years" is the same as saying "China has been championing personal freedom for 100 years".

              "Waving around John Oliver America Bad clips" = "I don't have the cognitive capabilities to pay attention to an award winning journalistic show that sources it's claims so thus everything addressed in it is shit"

              The US still doesn't have a direct presidential election, I don't think you've quite understood what that means.

              • You’re right, the phrasing is generous. I mean even 100 years ago, it’d be far more about championing white rights. If reconstruction went better… but that’s my point. I think we have differing definitions of the word “championing”. It does not mean to be the best, but rather the support for exists. And America has been pushing for these ideals. In comparison to so some other country, that isnt inundated with capitalist cowboys and slave stories — sure, nice. Even some countries that have those were able to. But still, those in America have championed for social rights, and fundamental programs exist that prove that. You just think it means “best in the world”, and after watching all the Olympics, I forgive you.

                • I think we have differing definitions of the word “championing”.

                  No, we don't. You're trying to pretend we do, to get out of having said something utterly silly.

                  It's far sillier to try those sort of semantical shenanigans than just admitting to having said something silly in the first place.

                  And America has been pushing for these ideals

                  You had segregation just 60 years ago, you still don't have limitless sickleave or even mandatory maternity leave. You have homeless people — who actually have jobs — shitting on the streets and dying from completely treatable things like infections, because they can't afford the insane prices of healthcare. Education is more or less a joke, you're literally burning books.

                  America has been actively suppressing socialist policies (and complete governments). That's a fact. Not an argument. Not an opinion. And definitely not up to semantics.

          • You’ve never heard of Social Security? I personally think it’s important to highlight the fundamental pieces of government that already work using systems people could classify as “socialist”. You pay in. You get you cut. The government uses everyones money as leverage.

            The context, is the current population is quite literally on the precipice of throwing out modern liberal democracy all together.

            I agree, of course, there are many other components to being human in America that the government isn’t properly established to deal with. But people who already hate the idea of socialism, they should understand that America grew to what it is, what it was, in part because of those policies.

            It’s also a much better story to wrap yourself in than WW2 dominance and trickle-down horse-shit, and the ever-constant reminder of failed reconstruction and native demolition. America came together once, in the darkness of the Depression, to build a foundation. The last several generations, even those that existed when these programs were established, have existed to destroy and steal and gut. But Reagan told us all it was the government’s fault, and in the golden hue of the 1980s, who the fuck needed Social Security? It was those same government programs that saved Americas cities, that built Americas roads. Many of the tracks may be gone, but they’ve all been replaced with internet cables — similarly a public enterprise.

            America is not a socialist country, it’s constitution needs rewritten. But so much of what makes America what it is, what Americans understand America to be, is solely because of social liberalism. And all of these people that are voting Trump, they should understand that. Because Trump literally stands for demolishing all of it.

258 comments