12mo ago

Ukraine war: At least 30 killed in biggest Russian bombardment yet

www.bbc.com Ukraine war: At least 30 killed in biggest Russian bombardment yet

Moscow takes its tactic of hitting cities and suppressing Ukraine's population to a deadly new level.

Homes, a maternity hospital, a shopping center, and a metro station were hit as part of the attacks. The attack may have been linked to the destruction of a Russian landing ship in Crimea.

News @kbin.social

Ukraine war: At least 30 killed in biggest Russian bombardment yet

www.bbc.com /news/world-europe-67843312

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Seems like they should really be negotiating a ceasefire and not dragging this out since even the US is ready to drop support for them and switch focus to full support for the genocide in Palestine.
- Come on, let's not deflect from whose to blame here. Russia is sending missiles where missiles don't belong. When Russian missiles kill Ukrainian babies in a maternity hospital, that's Russia's fault. They knew full well what they were doing.
  
  This war could have been over months ago or never even started if it weren't for NATO encroachment and sabotaging peace talks. I'm not defending Russia here I am pointing out reality.
  All this is because the west would not let eastern Ukraine exercise any self determination after couping the government in 2014.
  
  So here's the problem with peace talks. What would Russia agree to? They currently occupy a massive chunk of pre-2014 Ukraine, something like a quarter of the country. If Ukraine agrees to that, it sends a signal to the Russian government that invading Ukraine pays. Russia already made a go at installing a puppet government in the initial 2022 invasion. Why should Ukraine trust it not to take the time following a peace agreement to regroup and invade again? And besides that, Ukraine's never going to easily give up that much territory. Imagine that happening to your own country.
  
  Why should the people in those territories that pled for help against the coup government that was slaughtering them for 8 years not be allowed self determination?
  And also as an anarchist I don't believe in any legitimacy of either state, but if the people there feel safer under the protection of the Russian federation against the clearly Nazi captured Ukraine government, who am I to tell them what to do?
  You talk of Russia trying to install a puppet government but the US SUCCESSFULLY installed a puppet government run by Nazis in 2014.
  
  None of you NAFOs ever stop to consider the right of self-determination that belongs to the people who live in the eastern provinces.
  It’s pretty clear that the people of Donbas, Crimea, etc, do not want to be ruled by this Ukrainian government.
  A sustainable peace deal would be Ukraine agreeing to not cooperate or be supplied by NATO, agreeing to respect the rights of ethnic minorities, and giving up the provinces that do not want to be part of Ukraine.
  Why is it worth sending tens or hundreds of thousands more to their deaths over that?
  It’s an extremely reasonable peace and this is what they turned down at the start of the war when Boris Johnson derailed the initial peace effort. If the west wasn’t so war-thirsty then this war would have been over in a week, or wouldn’t have happened at all so cut out the pointless rhetoric about “we need to teach Putler a lesson” because you’re being blind to some basic facts about how this war could have and was attempted to be prevented when you recite that mantra.
  
  It’s pretty clear that the people of Donbas, Crimea, etc, do not want to be ruled by this Ukrainian government
  Maybe if you listen to Russian propaganda only. I have both Russian and Ukrainian family and it really isn't that simple.
  Your "peace" would be stripping any self determination of a sovereign country to appease the imperialist nuclear power on their border. Even after they have shown not to be trustworthy.
  Ukraine might as well just surrender the entirety of their country instead of being a foreign ruled satellite state like Belarus.
  Slava Ukraini
  
  "The right to self-determination" so long as that self determination is becoming Russian territory and nothing more.
  Let's not lie to ourselves that this is anything less than Russian Imperialism. It's Russian vs Western Imperialism all the way down.
  Edit: both Crimea and Donbas are currently under Russian control. In the case of Crimea it's been almost 10 years now under Russian occupation. If you believe they will leave Russian control I would love to see why you believe so.
  
  Russian soldiers supporting Russian agitators invaded they did not coup. The referendum for separation from Russia was in the 90s and voted for. Anything after that is nonsense.
  
  The referendum was a joke. I saw one piece of Russian television coverage where they were "counting" the ballots. They were holding up every paper and just saying "yes" "yes" "yes" (in Russian) without even looking at it. Also, how do you hold a fair referendum when it's done at gun point? No one feels free to say no when the people conducting the poll could just open their ballot, see they voted no, and shoot them on the spot.
  
  You mean the referendum just last year right. I meant the independence referendum of Ukraine after the collapse of the USSR. This one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum. Here the whole of Ukraine voted for secession from Russia.
  The referendum Russia held a referendum for Crimea in 2014 that was pre-deteemined, this one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum.
  And then Russia held one more with pre-deteemined outcome for the Donbas in 2022: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_annexation_referendums_in_Russian-occupied_Ukraine
  
  Gotcha, thanks for the correction.

43 comments