5d ago

You cannot negotiate with authoritarians. You cannot negotiate with fascists. They don't stop until everyone complies.

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Why do you keep reducing my argument down to things like the above?
What I want is for this to stop happening:
And why the fuck do you think that handing victory to the GOP will stop that from happening?
Why do you think it will do anything except accelerate that, assuming that graph is true (it is, quite demonstrably, not).
Great! Can we agree that it's the fault of Democratic leadership and their strategies that the Fascists got the Presidency
They bear a good deal of the blame.
Who is talking about sinking a Dem presidency? Other people can make whatever decision they like. My vote belongs to no one by default anymore.
You are. You are literally talking about the prospect of not voting for a Dem against literal fucking Nazis.
Why? Because when R went full on Hitler what did D do at the very next presidential election? Did Kamala pull to the left in her campaign? No.
...
... why would the GOP going full fascist turn the Dems left?
There's not some magic balance or pendulum in politics. The Dems aim for what demographics they think will give them a winning coalition. The country, not having moved dramatically left in the past 4 years, was not going to result in a dramatically more left Dem platform since 2020.
It was the same tired shit that they used to justify working against Bernie, the same tired shit Pelosi uses to justify working against any progressive at all
What.
And, it's not YOUR job to convince me I've got them all wrong. It's THEIRS.
Oh, you're absolutely right, it's not my job as a citizen to convince anyone not to endorse my death. After all. Blue Circus didn't earn my life.
Treating this like some kind of fucking sports team is exactly why politics in this country is so fucked. You embrace the same idiotic bullshit of politics as spectacle that's core to fascism, because, apparently, you don't make the connections between what happens in government and what happens here in the real fucking world.
My vote is mine. It's not yours or anyone else's. If they don't want it, that's OK. But if they do, they need to act like it.
Your vote is your's. And all the consequences of what you vote for, or fail to vote against, is also your's.
If the lives of your loved ones aren't worth a Blue Circus that doesn't entertain you enough, I can't stop you from endorsing fascism and genocide.
But I will absolutely condemn you for it, with what time I have left.
If you choose to allow fascism next election because the 'shitlibs' haven't been entertaining enough, every ounce of blood that results that could've been prevented is on your fucking hands.
- Well it seemed like this was becoming an actual conversation where you responded to what I was saying instead of whatever you are reading into things. This is about as much as I feel like dealing with in the way of rudeness right now, so have a good one.
  
  Fwiw, I thought it was interesting.
  So we all voted Kamala, and we all think the Dems are fucking up again and we can’t let the literal fucking fascists win.
  What are we arguing about again? Is it simply “Dems, with notable or temporary exception are not doing enough and they need to”?
  If we’re all on board with the duty to vote and barring some miracle third party candidate we’ll be voting Dem, I think we could get more substantive criticism out there.
  I guess when I see “Dems suck” or “don’t blame the voters” I think its an argument against voting which we saw a lot of, or “Harris was terrible” which I (very surprisingly) disagree with.
  
  No one seems to be interested in asking what I'd want to see to vote for them, only that I'm wrong for the vote that I might or might not cast in 3.5 years time, which I find very interesting on an intellectual level.
  
  I dunno, I think "what you want to see" is implied of course. Like, if trump changed to Democrat and "somehow" won the primaries, i don't think anyone would expect you to vote for that fucker. Or, shit, Bob Menendez or some garbage like that. I don't know what the DNC thinks their plan is, but they went with two women bookending Biden and neither won against the literal worst person ever to run. So, I think they're probably busy wondering if they'll be in the jobs to make campaign decisions.
  But then I don't think Harris was bad at all. I think the worst thing we can say (outside of the support for Israel, which - is a whole other thing) is that she was more unknown than known. I didn't think she'd have any momentum at all and was pleasantly surprised to find she had a lot. Clearly intelligent, able to manage at that level, and checked most all of the position boxes I wanted in terms of progress in education, finance, climate, regulation, etc.
  Is what you want somehow significantly different from what Harris was? And fwiw I think there's just a huge amount of frustration with the people who spent months on here grandstanding that they were never going to vote, that they were going to make Democrats "pay" for not specifically listing their particular unicorn in every stump speech and like that. People who should have known better and were either too young to know or too ignorant. Or trolling. Or literal disinformation farmers. Of course almost all of them magically disappeared when they got what they wanted.
  
  I'm sorry that clearly fucking stating my issues and outlining the logic that leads to the invariable conclusion is 'reading into things', and I'm sorry that being fucking pissed that, even after it's been pointed out numerous times, that you're treating the lives of marginalized groups in the US, including my fucking life, as a 'prize' that needs to be 'won' by the Blue fucking Circus before your holy hand will deign to vote against our murder on your fucking ballot. I understand that my tone is making you uncomfortable, when you would prefer asspats for endorsing my death. Agree to disagree, right? It's nothing major. Just another game to play and then go home safe and snug every night.
  Have the day you plan to vote for.
  
  Have the day you plan to vote for.
  I don't have a plan yet. No one seems to be interested in asking what I'd want to see to vote for them, only that I'm wrong for the vote that I might or might not cast in 3.5 years time, which I find very interesting on an intellectual level.
  It's almost like I'm expected to uncritically serve up my vote to them for not being the other party.
  
  I don't have a plan yet. No one seems to be interested in asking what I'd want to see to vote for them, only that I'm wrong for the vote that I might or might not cast in 3.5 years time, which I find very interesting on an intellectual level.
  It's almost like I'm expected to uncritically serve up my vote to them for not being the other party.
  It's almost like the other party are literal fucking fascists who are intent on murdering people, yet you think that the lives of the murdered is 'not enough' entertainment for you to oppose literal fucking fascism.
  "I MIGHT vote against the Nazis, I don't know yet! It depends on how entertaining the SDP is!"
  And then you wonder why potential Aktion T4 victims spit in your food.
  
  It’s almost like I’m expected to uncritically serve up my vote to them for not being the other party.
  If it really is exactly like that (and clearly it is) this has been a waste of both our times, frankly.

175 comments