Exploring Left-Wing Extremism on the Decentralized Web: An Analysis of Lemmygrad.ml
Exploring Left-Wing Extremism on the Decentralized Web: An Analysis of Lemmygrad.ml
Discovered in Fediverse Report – #129
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From Wikipedia:
While Zionist values serve as the ideological foundation of Israel, the importance of Zionism as an organized movement has declined since Israeli independence.[2]
The Zionist movement continues to exist in the form of various organizations working to support Israel, combat antisemitism, assist persecuted Jews, and encourage diaspora Jews to move to Israel. Most Israeli political parties continue to define themselves as Zionist.
Zionism was about the creation of Israel, a democracy. Democracy is supposed to be for everyone who lives there, including Palestinians, who were living under authoritarian governance before that point. It is imperative that you understand power and control to understand the importance of democracy <- leftists are fucking failing right here.
Israel has not been a good steward of the endeavor, but it was nevertheless the goal. It was messy. People had to get along to make it work. The Palestinians of that time refused to coexist peacefully with the Jews because of antisemitism, and they left. The surrounding countries like Jordan refused to let them in, even when that was their previous country. They decided to attack Israel and lost multiple wars. They refused to share land that was not theirs before, even if it was their ancestral homeland, because there was no democracy. The land belonged to its rulers.
I personally think Israel was doing better than say, the USA with our indigenous peoples, until recent years when the rise of far right authoritarianism threw the democracy out of whack and the worst people there are now in control.
The genocide in Gaza is an unprecedented travesty and Israel must be held to account. But who has the right to redefine the word 'Zionism' when it's the word used by this group of people to define their effort to save themselves? The notion that it was a racist or colonial movement is propaganda. The Jews have faced legitimate oppression everywhere they have tried to exist and arrived in the region after fleeing persecution in Europe and elsewhere. As the word has lessened in usage, antisemitic forces have coopted it and turned it into a slur.
Anti-Zionists are at best ignorant of the importance of democracy and at worst, antisemitic. Pick a new word.
The West's biggest mistake was extending free speech to the non-free world via the internet, allowing us to propagandize ourselves by listening to people across the world who don't understand what democracy is. Or in the case of China, a regime that has been able to provide a high enough standard of living that it provides the illusion that they have it better. But trust me, they want democracy.
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No zionism was an supermasist ideology that want to force a state on local population and kick out the local people
Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
The property owners will come over to our side. According to my conception, the majority of the local population will have to be transferred elsewhere.
We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country. - Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly - Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
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Sounds like an elitist; not a supremacist.
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It is supermasism
Supremacism is a stronger and broader belief in the inherent superiority and dominance of one group over others—often based on race, ethnicity, religion, nationality, or cultural identity.
It's a fact that zionists believe that they have more right to the land because their ancestors used to live there 2000 years ago over the local popuation who never left. It's a fact that israel as a zionist state is dominating palestinians. The best example are illegal settlers terrorists are acting violently on palestinians with the idf protection
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You're missing the entire point, likely in bad faith. Here's the deal: democracy allows the people to decide their fate. Israel was a project to bring democracy to the middle east. Everything else is a distraction by authoritarian forces across the world. They need it to fail because democracy itself is a threat to their hold on power.
Palestinians should have (in the past at least) worked to be a part of Israel. It was their chance at freedom and they refused to share it with Jews. Now that doesn't matter because fascism rose, Israel fucked up, and now the world must do for the Palestinians what it did for the Jews after the Holocaust.
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You are the bad actor. Democracy is internal has nothing to do with the fact that Zionists immigrant forced a state on the local population and did ethnic cleansing in 48. Stop pretending that Zionism was not a supremacist ideology
Nobody is tricked by your disingenuous mention of democracy to deflect and trying to making it about jews vs Arabs.
Palestinians should have (in the past at least) worked to be a part of Israel. It was their chance at freedom and they refused to share it with Jews
Arab suggested a one state solution with equal rights to everybody, Israel never did . A one state where west bankers and Gazan become citizens on Israel would go against the fundamental of Zionism which is a Jewish state
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forced a state on a local population
Who were ruled by whom?
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Zionists being emigrants is a fact through, palestinian being the local population is a fact. Don't conflate zionists with jews in general, i know there always was some jews who never left the land, doesn't make thr europeen zionists having right to force the state on thrm
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Don't conflate "local population" with "free people," which they could have been had they the foresight to work through the shitty situation. They would be Jordanians today. Idk much about modern Jordan because it's not a democracy and doesn't have a free press. It has a king. A ruler. An authoritarian. Meanwhile Arabs inside Israel have representation and are working up and out of the apartheid that very much is real and problematic. You'd have to go to Jordan to ask the local population if they would prefer democracy over their king.
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I won't let you deflect. Palestinians are local population, Zionists immigrants came to the land and said you have you give us part of your land so we can build a state majoritarily for us. How don't you realize how ridiculous this is ?
You keep talking about democracy while Israel has normalized relation with many autocratic countries. The Jordan you criticize are intercepting missiles for Israel have some self respect and stop being ungrateful
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Are you aware that Arabs also thought the same of Jews? You'll find that almost all parties in the region share the same views and hatred.
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No they didn't and stop deflecting we are talking about zionism right now
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They most certainly did.
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He has little influence, he is insignificant most arabs sided with the allies and fought nazi germany including volunteering18k palestinians. Now back to the topic why don't you admit that zionism was always about stesling local people land by herzl admission?
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Herzl had little influence
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Lmao! They really tried to sneak in "Hitler had little influence"
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Lol he is the creator of modern zionism. What about former israeli prime ministers, will you also tell me they are also insignificant?
after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine - Ben Gurion
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Oh, you just said that the Grand Mufti, Amin al-Husseini, has little influence and is insignificant, so I'm just doing the same until you admit fault.
Ben Gurion has little influence and is insignificant.
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Nah, fuck off shill.
Israelis are openly calling for blood, openly murdering children.
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i see you haven't criticized the history stated here and only been critical of the current israelis calling for gaza children's blood openly
you must agree with the historical accuracy here and have problems tying your own shoe laces
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Yeah, lots of them are. Fuck them. Would you like to see ALL Israeli punished or murdered for this? Because there's a word for that.
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But who has the right to redefine the word 'Zionism' when it's the word used by this group of people to define their effort to save themselves?
Anti-Zionists are at best ignorant of the importance of democracy and at worst, antisemitic. Pick a new word.
The people who protect the leadership of Israel from any consequences regardless of how they behave and provide them the tools to do whatever they deem necessary, including blatant ethnic cleansing and genocide, call themselves Zionist. It might not be fair to redefine a word, but those commiting genocide and those defending and enabling genocide, use it for themselves. Opposition meets them where they stand. The burden should not be on those opposing the genocide, what you call tragedy, to come up with a new word. You are redefining anti-new-Zionism as Anti-Semitism. Just as unhelpful as redefining Zionism. How about we work to stop the genocide and then focus on the definition of Zionism later?
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I agree with you, but it's also important to note that disguising anti-semitism as anti-zionism isn't anything new. Neo-Nazis often use zionist as a dog whistle to mean Jew prior to the current conflict.
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I believe that many leaders in Israel are well aware of this and are using that as a shield. Such use literally lays the ground work for actual Anti-Semitism. If Zionism has nothing to do with what's happening in Gaza and the West Bank, then far, far, far more effort needs to go into denying the Zionism of war criminals commiting a genocide and hiding behind language than criticizing those who use those same war criminals' language to oppose them.
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I fight this fight knowing how tone deaf it is at this moment in time because you and the internet at large don't seem to understand how ancient and how pervasive antisemitism is. I agree with your points, but argue the problem you're touching is far right authoritarianism rising worldwide. It will turn all democracies into the worst fascist states. The USA is absolutely enabling genocide, a word I use without hesitation, but the history is clear that Jews have never NOT been under direct threat of genocide. My biggest fear in October 7 was that they would lose themselves to right wing madness the way we did after 9/11. And that's what happened. Far-right ideology is the problem. Always. Not the Jews.
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Honestly, your words only make me less supportive of your perceived "fight".
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Thank you for helping me sort through the noise further.
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Zionism was about the creation of Israel, a democracy. Democracy is supposed to be for everyone who lives there, including Palestinians, who were living under authoritarian governance before that point. It is imperative that you understand power and control to understand the importance of democracy
'I stole your house and land to create a utopia. You could have understood my vision and agreed to my very generous offer of being second class citizens. But since you didn't, I will kill you and your family. You are failing to understand big-word and bigger-word.'
Fuck off, zcolonialism apologist.
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Elaborate please
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