Greta Thunberg departs Israel on flight to Paris after detention aboard aid ship
Swedish climate and human rights activist Greta Thunberg departed Israel on a flight to France after being detained by Israeli forces aboard an aid ship bound for Gaza.
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EDIT: Kidnapping. The word you're ignoring in the title is kidnapping.
They put it in quotes.
Funny how they are careful with words when they were literally on international water.
I feel like indie news is more important than ever, even if it means hand-cranked mimeos and passing them from person to person. Telecom can be cut at any time.
When the UN doesn’t stop the Israeli’s from declaring it a conflict zone. It’s technically not kidnapping. Just like how the US abducted people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
No. They never entered anywhere Israel is legally allowed to exclude even in war It being full of aid and verifiable non combatants.
It's kidnapping.
Just like how the US abducted people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Your example is also kidnapping but even excluding that bit of nuance the key word is "in" they never entered territorial waters and thus were never "in" Israel or Palestine. Israel can declare 1500mi of the coast of Somalia an exclusion zone then kidnap people there and that would make just as much sense in a legal view.
Doesn’t Israel delegate 200 miles off the coast as a no go zone?
Something like that but the important thing is Israel is not claiming they entered the exclusion zone and similarly they even if they did the result is supposed to be being forcibly turned away not kidnapping and property theft.
The flotilla was told several times to turn around or be detained. They decided to not turn around and continued on their intended course to breach the naval blockade.
According to international maritime law Israel can intercept and detain before they enter.
Notice you never said they did breach the blockade which btw by international law they have to be given time and allowed to leave even if they enter without permission which they didn't do nor is Israel claiming they did.
Intercept and detain yes, board, seizur, deport and treat as their own... No because duh.
Just like police can arrest you before you commit a crime, if you loudly and repeatedly proclaim the intention to commit it.
They were asked repeatedly to change course and refused.
Boarding, capturing the ship, confiscating cargo, and holding crew is exactly what international maritime law says is legal and customary in such situations like a blockade.
A. Jurisdiction. B. You're confusing ras with PC , you need pc for arrest you need ras to detain.
Because they don't have to, they're well outside the blockade and Israel doesn't own the ocean.
No, international law says a ship entering a blockade illegally can be boarded and detained after they've been given a chance to leave the area.... If they have to be given a chance to leave you can't steal their property and kidnap their crew, that's a crime.
Read the law and don't double post the same thing to me please.
They were given plenty of warnings and chances to leave the area.
A belligerent warship sailing on the high seas had the right to visit and search all merchant vessels
No they can't especially when the blockade is illegal
Gaza is under a declared blockade, Maritime Law (the oldest of international law) allows detaining any ship bound for a blockaded port. It's really cut and dry, they very publicly declared they were bound for a blockaded port. It's not like Israel boarded a ship that just happened to be in the area, these freedom flotilla yahoos very publicly declared they were bound for Gaza, which under Maritime Law permits Israel to board it.
International law is an agreement between nations and doesn't actually restrict nations from doing things that will hurt your feelings. You're going down the sovcit path when you pretend international law is whatever you want it to be.
It's not like Israel boarded a ship that just happened to be in the area,
That's exactly what happened, blockade borders have to be announced and ships have to be allowed time to leave the area. Israel left their blockade and kidnapped people aboard a ship they did not allow to leave an area they weren't in.
these freedom flotilla yahoos very publicly declared they were bound for Gaza, which under Maritime Law permits Israel to board it.
Once they breach the blockade yes arguably though with only aid that gets more complex. Essentially aid entry is allowed so long as you agree to security arrangements that are both reasonable and lawful. That could mean Israel could board and search, or doesn't mean they can blockade all aid to starve a population which is specifically and in multiple very very illegal.
https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/blockade
Their sources section is awash with good relevant information and specifically findings on the last Israeli famous Israeli blockade and subsequent boarding (and death of iirc 9) which was found to be a legal blockade so long as the purpose was not starvation and aid could enter with security arrangements.
An operation involving naval and air forces by which a belligerent completely prevents movement by sea from or to a port or coast belonging to or occupied by an enemy belligerent. To be mandatory, that is, for third States to be obliged to respect it, the blockade must be effective. This means that it must be maintained by a force sufficient to prevent all access to the enemy coast.
So... according to the link you've provided Israel is actually required to board the ship or they can no longer prevent shipments of weapons coming from Iran?
Essentially aid entry is allowed so long as you agree to security arrangements that are both reasonable and lawful.
Has there been any indication these flotilla activists attempted to make such security arrangements with Israel?
Correct to an extent, the accepted meaning is that they must agree to security measures to pass through. It is not and never has been a way to willfully prevent aid and aide staff into combat zones.
They weren't in a blockaded zone as far as I'm aware, Israel only says they were approaching and providing intented destination as you must when attempting to pass through a blockade.
Even ignoring that they must be allowed to leave even if they enter the blockaded area without permission, it isn't a seize your property and imprison your crew for being in the general area openly providing intent kinda thing.
Israel has told the flotilla repeatedly they can deliver the aid through the proper channels and the port of Ashdod.
The small amount of captured aid from the freedom flotilla is being delivered to Gaza by Israel at the moment.
Correct, they hadn't entered the area yet though so they technically heeded their warning.
Stolen, if you take something from someone and dispense it as your own you're guilty of theft and conversion something they say Hamas does with aid. And moreover delivering aid doesn't negate the whole unlawful boarding, seizure and forcible human trafficking thing.
You don’t need to actually rob someone for the police to arrest you, if you loudly proclaim your intent and don’t stop.
Confiscating ship and cargo, and holding the crew is perfectly legal under international maritime law for blockade runners.
Israel said the tiny amount of aid the flotilla brought would be delivered on to Gaza.
You do actually. They need pc for arrest, they need reasonable articulable suspicion to detain, your simply confusing or conflating the two. Similarly a police officer needs jurisdiction, Israel doesn't have jurisdiction outside of the blockade or territorial waters.
To run a blockade you actually need to enter it, at anchor in international water after declaring your intent is quite literally the textbook reaction to a blockade and specifically to enter one legally.
Israel also says it's ok to run over people with tanks so maybe Israel is full of shit and you should trust third parties over the most active belligerent. FYI Hitler tried to say invading Poland for security reasons was legal, turns out no but Israel decided to quite literally pull a Hitler.
Stop cucking for authoritarians bud.
Maritime Law (the oldest of international law)
Source?
freedom flotilla yahoos [...] doing things that will hurt your feelings. [...] sovcit [...] pretend
Ew.
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Outside the blockade area and on the high seas,34 belligerents relied on the practice of "visit and search"3s to stop vessels suspected of carrying "con-traband" to the enemy.36 A belligerent warship sailing on the high seas had the right to visit and search all merchant vessels. Merchants found carrying enemy contraband were captured and escorted to the belligerent's nearest home port. The belligerent nation's prize court then determined the fate of the captured ship and cargo.37 In cases where merchants resisted either capture or visit and search, the blockading force was entitled to pursue and, if neces-sary, damage or destroy the vessel to force the ship to submit.
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belligerents today continue to enforce blockades from long distance or through blockade zones. They do so because of three twentieth-century developments in maritime warfare: first, the growing importance to belligerents of conducting economic warfare in conjunction with armed con-flict;s3 second, the introduction of a large array of new weapons to the maritime battlefield; and third, the proliferation of modern weapons to less powerful nations incapable of conducting traditional blockade. In combination, these three developments have forced states to replace traditional blockade form with long-distance blockade or blockade zones.
No, source for it being the oldest part.
A. The first quoted section is providing past practice not current.
B. They weren't suspected of carrying contraband, they were boarded and none was found and yet their property was seized and they were then trafficked through multiple countries against their will.
B². Point to where it says they could seize a ship and take it as prize that was not caught with contraband.
C. Your second quoted section provides no relevant reason to capture a neutral humanitarian ship.
they very publicly declared they were bound for a blockaded port.
Not illegal.
which under Maritime Law permits Israel to board it.
Not detain and seize, maritime law is very specific in that a blockade cannot block aid unreasonably. A super famous ship you've searched that's filled solely with celebrities and aid is something you shouldn't turn away so long as they accept security arrangements like boarding and searching. This isn't star wars nor are they the trade union and total blockades like your implying are very illegal as defined by the law you're sourcing.
Israel offers the option to deliver aid through its ports (Ashdod) and then land route. Exactly the place where the flotilla was brought to and their aid then continued on land by truck to Gaza.
Israel extends an empty gesture they have no intention of actually doing hence all the aid not coming in. Similarly even in a blockade aid is specifically allowed or the blockade is illegal, seizing an aid ship and deporting is crew is strong evidence it's an illegal blockade which is why they allowed all this to happen. It's gotta get to court somehow and doing this to white celebrities is bound to get more traction then some other group attempting the same.
The amount of aid getting into Gaza is constantly increasing and at more than 50 trucks per day. The whole supposed aid flotilla didn’t even bring a full truck of aid. It’s a political stunt, not about actually delivering aid effectively.
So Israel claims, they also claim they aren't murdering people and yet there's these piles of murdered people all over the place.
It’s a political stunt, not about actually delivering aid effectively.
Correct! The thing they announced was to draw attention and test it the blockade was legal in court like was done in 2019 was indeed to do exactly that! That said if you didn't know in 2019 they boarded a ship and murdered 9 people it's quite lucky nothing similar happened this time.
Captured or arrested is the word you're actually looking for. Or, as it currently stands, released.
Y'all are delusional trying to make 'kidnapping" a thing 🤣
What would you call intercepting someone in international waters and taking them back to your country without their consent? If Somali pirates did that you'd have no qualms using the word 'kidnapped'.
It's a blockade for a war zone. Standard practice for centuries, unless they just shoot you which was the previous option for most of humanity.
Now let's get pedantic and have someone screech that Israel doesn't recognize Palestine and it's not a war so no blockade 🙄
The blockade is illegal and israel didn't do it job to allow enough food and aid to enter which is an obligation. They are even shooting people seeking aid
Israel does not recognise that there are civilian non-combatants in Gaza and therefore does not allow aid to enter. How about you?
They was jailed for navigating on internal water. It is illegal therefore it's abduction
Yeah it's real typical for kidnappings to be publicly known, announced in advance and then the victim safetly returned promptly, entirely unharmed. Im sure you can fram it as a kidnapping with some backflips, but you just look like a whiny child. She was captured and held unlawfully sure, but if it was actually for humanitarian aid and not self publicity, i might have some sympathy.
So if somali pirates would just take the ship and send the crew back home it would all be good?
You're having an interesting opinion here.
I mean, honestly it worked for privateers. Hold up a ship, steal their gold and liquor, leave a month's rations, and sail on. Come to think of it, old school pirates probably had more empathy than Israeli leaders...
Inequivalent.
you sure act like a whiny child, when faced with some solid arguments.
That's fine
How so.
Can't really agree with you on this one. I would welcome and fight for more people doing the right thing for personal benefit. Seems a lot better than the current circumstances.
Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, in my experience, backfires more often than not. It's a dangerous gamble.
Yes. The only tatoo idea I have for myself involves dice, chains, and the words "Let's tempt Fate." While I would prefer an ideal situation, it's taking too long. I will support any act that brings aid, supplies, or more notoriety to the plight of Gaza. Even Al-Capone had a soup kitchen for the hungry Chicagans of the Great Depression.
If you want this conflict to end the last thing you want to give it is more noteriety. The only reason this is still happening is because of outside influences.
Can you please elaborate on that connection from your perspective. I imagine there must be some context I am overlooking.
Willful ignorance of atrocities does not have any chance of stopping or slowing them. Source: Russian Gulags, North Korea, US native women murders/trafficking, Auschwitz.
All the shouting and "notoriety" just makes it worse. Turns it into a spectacle instead of actually fixing anything. Sometimes, less outside noise is exactly what's needed for people to sort their own mess out. Wayne Dyer said, "Conflict cannot survive without your participation."
Ahh yes, because that solves the bystander effect which is why Kitty Genovese did not die from being stabbed in 1964. Also why the Uvalde police are heros for not participating in that school shooting. /s
You still haven't explained any of your reasoning, so I will assume it is in bad faith.
Finally, your quote is about interpersonal conflict, not violence and murder. Mr. Dyer was a therapist.
You saying "In bad faith" = i cant meaningfully disagree with you
You saying “In bad faith” =
i cantI am not trying to meaningfully disagree with you
You can prove it's in good faith by explaining your resoning. i.e. How is it worse, specifically? How will they possibly "sort their own mess out"?
If you don't want to, that's fine. Spouting empty platitudes is all I've read the past two responses. Any more will be met with shitposts by me to match your energy.
She was kidnapped then released while other are still in jail for doing nothing illegal
Good. They're interfering in things they hardly understand.
They understand everything about israel 57 years of occupation
Ha, dont believe that for a minute.