3d ago

Baby boom

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40k a year? So at least 3200 a month for daycare? Who on gods dying earth can pay for that? That's more than 3 times my rent and my landlord is bleeding me like a stuck pig, what the fuck
- People live in way different fuckin worlds man, and the weird part is a lot of us just go through life thinking our "version" is normal. The folks who do this and whose friends do this and whose parents did this - it's normal to them.
  I don't think I'm conveying this well. There are whole communities, made up of individual people, for whom this is standard, expected, because it's what they've always been surrounded by, grew up practically breathing it as normal. And for these folks, the reciprocal realization to the one you made, realization that MANY people do not (can not) do this - comes as a similar level of surprise.
  It's really fucked up. And it's something deeper and harder to fix than just pointing to one guy or class of people as The Problem (to be clear, that guy and class of people I'm referencing ARE an enormous, hideous problem).
  
  Oh, it's simple ~~easy~~ to fix, just very painful. Nobody wants to fix this because it means dismantling capitalism and bringing those responsible to justice. This is why there is so much support for fascism. They run from the boogeyman they know into the arms of the ones that promise a return to normalcy.
  
  I think you mean simple, not easy. Getting a large group of people to do anything is not easy.
  
  You are right, and my French is showing.
  
  The elephant in the room is the huge violence required to bring any "simple fix" to fruition. The fascists are doing some of the violence for their own simple fixes, now, openly. They of course intend the further violence, too.
  Some of us see the elephant. Most of us (almost all of us, myself included!) are just tryna get from one day to the next. That's bad, elephant gets bigger...
  
  I mean yes? I feel like there's an implication that you never quite said that the quality of life for people that are paying that much for child care is better and that's just not true. I was living far better in a cheap area making far less than I am now in the bay area. This is just the cost of living here. There's absurdly wealthy people here and there's, compatible to the median, absurdly wealthy people in rural areas. This price does not mean they're living in luxury, this can easily be them scraping by. This is literally the cost of child care for the middle class in the highest cost markets in the US.
  
  Alright. I don't really know how to have conversations if we have to couch things in COL gradients. I was specifically responding to this person's sense of astonishment, because it's cruel and harmful for folks to feel the way that commenter felt. And it's - in a mirror kind of way - dehumanizing and damaging for the actually rich (I don't mean you), that they're astonished when they learn the ugly thing, too.
  And I mean everything I said, and I said the most important bits right at the top. We go through these versions of life and think they are normal. Your reply to me sounds a lot like you doing exactly that, I dunno what else to say my friend but I wish you well and cheers, sincerely.
  
  I was specifically responding to this person’s sense of astonishment
  By avoiding COL?
  it’s cruel and harmful for folks to feel the way that commenter felt
  And why is COL going to make people feel anything but better as an explanation? You're talking about "ugly things" too. You're stepping around something, I assume inequity, but I don't see how that is supposed to make anyone feel better than a pretty neutral COL. You make more but you spend more in those areas. That doesn't seem ugly to me?
  We go through these versions of life and think they are normal
  I genuinely don't know what point you're trying to make. Are you saying different costs of living are inherently bad or inequality is bad? The latter makes sense but doesn't make sense with your previous statement. It just feels like you're doing the opposite of comforting the commenter's feelings, it seems you're trying to apply an interpretation with a very negative connotation when a much more reasonable, simpler, fitting one exists. Like do you think the screenshot is the uber wealthy bragging about how much they spend or someone complaining about the cost?
  
  I'll agree with you, I don't think I've made my point all that well. That most recent comment you're replying to here was rushed and did a poor job, that's my bad!
  I didn't really want to make it about COL at all, and I've asked myself why, and I think I take issue with the way it papers over deeper problems sometimes (but to be fair, the opposite thing where people don't understand COL differences is super frustrating).
  I have several issues with it, it turns out, and you may end up rejecting them all, but I did a shit job earlier and you asked what I meant, so here goes. Gonna be long lol, sorry. But yeah, complaining about wealth disparity, not COL, but also COL doesn't invalidate my complaints, IMO.
  It's my understanding that folks on the lowest rungs of the socioeconomic ladder do fare worse, the higher the COL. So while things scale (that's the idea after all), I don't think pay scales evenly across compensation ranges. I have to acknowledge that I have no source on this and I may have a shaky basis for that belief. I should probably improve my rigor there. It does look like homelessness is higher, per capita, in larger cities, which seems like at least a very rough proxy for my assertion. So that's one problem for me, COL doesn't erase that magnitude or make it more in reach necessarily, for the chronically broke.
  Not all goods and services are priced locally. People making high COL wages have inherent advantages over people making low COL wages when paying for anything that isn't priced locally.
  That issue really extends far when you apply it abroad to things like aid that could be given to people for whom even a single dollar a day can be a tangible improvement. I'm placing this separately because we all value the well being of one another differently by proximity, unfortunately, so some folks may accept #2 as a problem and not see #3 as their concern. I do personally try to give what I can charitably, split between local food banks and sort of "maximizing impact wherever".
  At any rate, folks who feel badly disadvantaged due to these do fit into what I meant by the "versions of life" phrasing, but I mostly intended just the chronically broke there. You can be broke enough, basically anywhere in the US, such that roughly everyone you know never uses professional paid childcare, priced moderately or otherwise. So COL only goes but so far for that reason too.
  But to be clear, I was thinking of wasteful rich people. We both made an assumption about what kind of people/situation the original content referred to, neither is really more valid than the other. I absolutely understand that COL has big impacts and is sometimes left out. But there's a lot of nuance to COL, and I don't really feel I need to make a disclaimer about it to make statements like I did. It's fine if you disagree.
  Edit: minor phrasing
  
  To reply more in the spirit of my original comment, since I spent a lot of words (probably many more than you wanted to read lol) on your COL angle -
  (and actually, I realized after I got a little ways into this, I'm just clarifying my thoughts for my own benefit at this point lol, this is basically me just saying things. I'ma post it, it's Lemmy, why not)
  The idea about "versions of life we go through, thinking they're normal" -
  That's important to me. Going totally unreasonable here - I really believe that most people, regardless of background - if you actually exposed them to the true suffering of the very poor, and the true excess of the very rich, most people would understand that none of this is really acceptable, it only seems that way, it's actually deeply wrong. I think most people, if they could really get even just a weeklong glimpse of life in those shoes (both extremes, and one in the middle), nearly every single one - rich, poor, or in the middle - would clamor for abrupt change. I think we can care, we just don't see.
  The opposite of the above, lacking it, is the "...thinking it's normal" I meant.
  One enormous, but strange, barrier to all of us recognizing that truth is just the simple fact of the way our lives work - through none of our doing, we wind up ensconced in the environment in which we grew up, roughly, from a socioeconomic standpoint. We live our lives in that "lane", that "version", and we die in the way the people in our "versions" die, too. This applies across $0 - $Inf.
  The barrier I'm describing as strange is that way because it's often very invisible, and - rich or poor - sudden realizations about one's lived "version", and the versions of others - those are jarring, damaging, to whomever experiences them.
  We should probably do more of it, though. The jarring forced realizations. Like, a lot more. Luigi Mangione, for instance, I think that dude really understood, and the thing is - most people also understood, they thought what he did was dope. I really wish we'd all focus more on what happened there. Do more of it, even.
- Bay area and I'm sure NYC
- When you have 3+ kids that are young.

154 comments