Ye Power Trippin' Bastards @lemmy.dbzer0.com Viking_Hippie @lemmy.dbzer0.com 1d ago

Jordan Lund at it again

Context:

The article in question was well sourced, factually accurate, and written by a well-renowned author and journalist whose work appears elsewhere too, regardless of which outlet published it.

Nonetheless, Jordan Lund is once again blindly trusting a pro-zionist conservative outlet masquerading as a bias and fact checker that nothing from anywhere that criticizes the fascist apartheid regime can be reliable 🤦

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Yeah Jordan didn't ever say "they didn't cross the line today", it was much worse than that. He pretended each comment and post stood on its own and that he had no way of knowing UM was a troll because he could make a pretend argument that in each case no rule was broken. It didn't matter that UM broke the trolling rule every 10 minutes for many months because we cannot possibly just view their profile and see an OBVIOUS pattern that a large swath of the community noticed.
- Yeah. And if UM was objectively breaking the rules, for example on frequency of posting, Jordan would just fall silent or make some kind of joke about it, or remove a couple of the offending posts while pretending it was some crazy one-off that something like that could have happened.
  
  The vibe I get is that Jordan is the fall guy who has to be the public face of bad moderation decisions being made by someone else. He basically said as much, when he said the mods “talked a lot” about UM and this was the decision. So it’s not purely his fault, I think the root of the issue is elsewhere. But that’s just speculation, and he is choosing to come out and publicly defend these absurd moderation decisions, so whatever. Eventually I just decided that the solution was not to fuck with the affected subs anymore, and often when I wander back into them I feel very vindicated in that decision.
  
  Yeah I agree with almost all of this. I think he's the fall guy, I just had said that in a comment a couple hours ago actually. But he doesn't seem to mind it. Because as you said, he's still publicly defending those bad and wrong decisions.
  
  I blocked the politics comm on LW and I've been less angry since. That place blows
  
  Yeah. I'm of two minds about it: I don't like ceding space to the rabble. I think a lot of times, the right response to propaganda is to call it out and be vigorous about making it clear that it doesn't belong. Anything along the lines of "just don't engage, that just gives it fuel" winds up as a de facto surrender where every topic will be filled with... well, with comments along the lines of a lot of the ones you see in this topic. Russia tells the truth sometimes! NATO! The State Department lies! Mint Press is well-sourced, I appreciate alternative points of view even if you don't! Iraq War! It's just a nonstop avalanche of talking points. If you look at the voting, you can kind of see some battle lines in terms of which of them are getting traction over time and which ones are unanimously seen through, and I'm always a little gratified when someone comes in with some bullshit and it gets solidly rejected. I don't think it's harmful to let that happen. I do think it's harmful to let them just run around doing this stuff unmolested. The bullshit asymmetry principle is only an issue if you let the bullshitter dictate the terms of the conversation and keep introducing new stuff -- or if no one challenges the bullshit and the public discourse becomes just a factless free-for-all.
  
  But as far as lemmy.world, it was just too much to salvage any kind of decent space. There was too much synergy between deliberate propaganda, deliberate trolling, godawful moderation, and standard internet cluelessness and gullibility. I suspect that some of the moderation was bad specifically on purpose, actually. Someone pointed out not long ago that except for MBFC, every one of the baffling moderation decisions the lemmy.world moderators undertook was in the direction of providing cover for some kind of propaganda (UM's "advocacy" for third parties being a good example). It's really not normal. Even in spaces that have bad moderation, it's usually just kind of randomly applied, random people being banned and random people not. Lemmy.world's moderation is extremely consistent in the direction of allowing propaganda - except for FlyingSquid for a while, and FlyingSquid got harassed and eventually apparently driven out. And now, Jordan made a decision that's anti-propaganda, and look! People are harassing him and objecting to the decision and spreading bad-faith talking points that Mint Press needs to be allowed, because it's "well-sourced."
  
  Yeah, we're basically in agreement on all of it. I do wonder -- what happened to FlyingSquid? All of a sudden they stopped using LW. No comments or posts at all. I hope they are ok.
  
  Yeah, me too. The pattern of people relentlessly dogpiling on FS that he was terrible, in conjunction with the fact that he was active at removing propaganda from his communities, was very sad to me. If his inactivity is connected to the fact that people were constantly insulting and harassing him, that would make perfect sense. And now here is a post which is attacking Jordan, not for any of the various objectively terrible moderation decisions which he's come out at various points to defend, but because he removed some propaganda.
  
  I have seen the end-stage of a gradual community takeover multiple times on reddit, where a group of bad actors (either corporate-friendly or with a particular political goal) eventually manage to take over a subreddit and run it exactly how they want. That kind of pattern is honestly part of why I am so against Jordan's "well the mods set the rules so fuck your opinion" attitude as pertains to moderation, even if I don't really get the read that he is malicious in any way.
  
  I have no idea if this particular instance of pointing some abuse at Jordan because he came out against some propaganda is a piece of a community "takeover" by mods who are quieter and more malicious (or even if the harassment of Squid had anything to do with a pattern like that.) But if it did, that would make good sense. I definitely have noticed one moderator of LW communities who consistently makes pro-propaganda decisions, and they're super quiet about their reasoning and decisions, letting people like Jordan come more to the front to speak to the community about them.
  
  Squid is fine, his leaving lemmy was entirely my fault and a result of a disagreement we had on discord.
  
  Hm. I obviously don't know the details, but I strongly suspect that even if a disagreement you had on Discord was the precipitating event, the pattern of abuse that was getting hurled at him formed a pretty vital part of the background leading up to him deciding to leave after that.
  
  Squid had a lot going on besides the pattern of abuse and all that went well outside lemmy. Packing up and leaving the country might have been for the best for him.
  
  Seems entirely plausible, but to me that makes the pattern of abuse, fucking up for him this one particular thing he'd chosen to do which he seemed to like investing himself in and which was an important thing to do... worse, not better.
  
  Entirely plausible, I know he was struggling with bullshit job offers after he got there too.
- Nothing you are saying is true. And it's off topic. I had nothing to do with OP’s situation and I’m not the mod in question. :)

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