Trump-Putin call on war in Ukraine is another blow to Kyiv and its allies
Trump-Putin call on war in Ukraine is another blow to Kyiv and its allies
When "negotiating peace" with Russia means allowing them to keep all the land they stole, along with promising not to build up any defense against future aggression...then yes, fighting is the only option.
If that negotiated peace includes Russia's unconditional withdrawal from the country...all of it...and assurances that they will not attack again...then sure, negotiations are preferred.
This isn't "changing the goalposts" as you keep saying. These are simply Ukraine's terms. And they are not unreasonable. Why should they be expected to give land to the ones that invaded their country? And why would anyone agree to disarm and never make defensive agreements, when the country right next door to you has proven time and again, that they are hostile, and want your land and resources?
Expecting Ukraine to agree to what is essentially an unconditional surrender to a foreign invader, is absurd. But that is what Russia is asking for.
As to the rest of that conspiracy driven crap...man, you need to wake up. None of that is true. Ukraine just wants to be left alone. They have every right to trade with whoever they want to. And Russia has no right to tell them they can't.
Pretending like there's anything more to the situation than Putin wanting Ukraine and it's resources back under his personal control, is intellectually dishonest. It's laughable that anyone takes that kind of garbage seriously. You literally have to turn off your critical thinking skills in order to believe that outside forces are what's behind this war, when the obvious truth is right there in front of you....and requires no such assumptions.
Lol! So, that's what matters to you? Who wins and who loses?
It's not about who's right or who's wrong? It's just about who has the biggest army?
Dude. That's about as fucked up as it gets. Why aren't you cheering for NATO then? They have a bigger army, and by your moral compass...that makes them "right".
smh.
Buddy, nothing you just said is true. Not a word.
Russia invaded Ukraine. How was Ukraine supposed to "agree to peace" in the beginning, when they didn't start the war? Surrender? Then what? Why would Russia stop taking land if Ukraine simply let's them, without any resistance? You aren't making a rational argument.
As for who is "right" and who is "wrong"...it isn't about "good guys" and "bad guys". That's just a jeuvanile characterization that has no real meaning. It is objectively "wrong" to attack another country. It is objectively "wrong" to steal land from your neighbor.
It was objectively "wrong" for the US to attack and invade Iraq...wasn't it? Even though they made up excuses about "fighting terror", and "WMD's", and spreading "freedom and democracy"? These are all lies that imperialists use to justify violence. Now, it's Russia lying in order to justify their use of violence in order to steal land and resources from their neighbors. Imagine being so gullible that you actually believe they are "deNazifying" Ukraine, or "defending themselves against NATO". The level of willful ignorance it must take to look at what Russia is doing, and just shrug like it's justified, must be exhausting. Just the idea that somehow it's Ukraine's fault for the war starting in the first place, when they are the ones being attacked, is ludicrous.
And as I said in a previous comment, that didn't seem to register at all in your bizarre backwards narrative...what exactly do you consider "negotiations"? Unconditional surrender seems to be the only thing on the table as far as Russia is concerned. What is Ukraine supposed to negotiate here? You call it "moving the goalposts" to even mention the land that Russia has stolen as being something to negotiate FOR. What exactly is an acceptable amount of land to give back? Because expecting Ukraine to agree to giving up any land, simply rewards Russia for their hostility. That is unacceptable, no matter who the aggressor is.
The US was "wrong" to invade Iraq. But even the US left Iraq after the war was over. Explain how Russia is somehow "right" here, when they're planning on keeping what they've stolen?
As for "cheering on Ukraine's destruction"...man, that is beyond insanity. Russia is the aggressor here. They can stop the violence any time they want to, by simply leaving Ukraine. No one is forcing them to keep fighting. That's the difference between attacking and defending. If you stop attacking, you get peace. But if you stop defending yourself, you die. Russia is the only one in this situation that can "make peace". Ukraine doesn't have that option, because they aren't the ones attacking Russia.
Your Israel analogy makes no sense. Ukraine didn't attack Russia. They didn't start the war. This is the point you keep intentionally missing.
Your entire argument is based on that fundamental misrepresentation of the facts. You are shifting responsibility from the attacker, to the one being attacked.
A better analogy is Syria. The US actively interfered with Syrian society by amplifying anti-government sentiments in social media. Then when things escalated to the point of active revolt against the government, they used that unrest and the deaths of protesters to launch an "intervention".
They would have probably toppled the Assad government within weeks, if Russia hadn't stepped in to help them. Their support allowed the Syrian government to last years against the US invasion, u Tim the US had lost all momentum in the country.
See...that analogy matches almost exactly what's happening in Ukraine. Except I Ukraine, the Russians were the ones interfering in Ukraine's internal politics. And the Russians are the ones that eventually invaded the country by force. But this time, it was the West that stepped in to help the local government defend itself. Russia thought it could take the whole country within a matter of weeks...but instead Ukraine has held them off for years.
By your logic, Syria should have simply given up and let the US have whatever they wanted. By your logic Assad, and by extension Russia, are solely responsible for every single death that has occurred as a result of their efforts to stop the US. By your logic, the US had every right to take what they wanted from Syria, because they were the stronger force. All that death that resulted from the US invasion, could have avoided, if only Russia had stayed out of it, and let Syria fall.
Does that sound about right to you?
Yes. All of that is true. And now we are seeing an almost exact parallel situation in Ukraine. The only difference is that it's Russia doing the meddling and violence.
You are so willfully ignorant to the actual facts here, that you can't even admit that Russia is doing exactly the same thing. And lying about it, just like the US did in Iraq.
Anyone looking at this objectively, laughs when they hear the bizarre cover stories that Russian state media outs out, to try and normalize their crimes. It is just as transparent and obvious as anything the US came up with during the Bush administration.
The fact that you cling to this narrative that Russia is somehow "saving Ukraine from themselves and the evil West", is kind of pathetic. Especially when you also admit that it's all about the strong taking whatever they want from the weak...and how the weak should thank them for it. It's like listening to someone justify their settler colonial bullshit, by infantilizing the oppressed population.
"Oh, they had nothing before we came along and gave them civilization." "What would these peasants do without us to guide them?" "If we don't provide them with strong leadership, they would be lost."
It's the same old bullshit that every imperial nation tells themselves, so they can sleep at night, while committing horrendous atrocities on others. You just refuse to admit it, because you identify with the oppressors.
