Trump-Putin call on war in Ukraine is another blow to Kyiv and its allies
Trump-Putin call on war in Ukraine is another blow to Kyiv and its allies
Your Israel analogy makes no sense. Ukraine didn't attack Russia. They didn't start the war. This is the point you keep intentionally missing.
Your entire argument is based on that fundamental misrepresentation of the facts. You are shifting responsibility from the attacker, to the one being attacked.
A better analogy is Syria. The US actively interfered with Syrian society by amplifying anti-government sentiments in social media. Then when things escalated to the point of active revolt against the government, they used that unrest and the deaths of protesters to launch an "intervention".
They would have probably toppled the Assad government within weeks, if Russia hadn't stepped in to help them. Their support allowed the Syrian government to last years against the US invasion, u Tim the US had lost all momentum in the country.
See...that analogy matches almost exactly what's happening in Ukraine. Except I Ukraine, the Russians were the ones interfering in Ukraine's internal politics. And the Russians are the ones that eventually invaded the country by force. But this time, it was the West that stepped in to help the local government defend itself. Russia thought it could take the whole country within a matter of weeks...but instead Ukraine has held them off for years.
By your logic, Syria should have simply given up and let the US have whatever they wanted. By your logic Assad, and by extension Russia, are solely responsible for every single death that has occurred as a result of their efforts to stop the US. By your logic, the US had every right to take what they wanted from Syria, because they were the stronger force. All that death that resulted from the US invasion, could have avoided, if only Russia had stayed out of it, and let Syria fall.
Does that sound about right to you?
Yes. All of that is true. And now we are seeing an almost exact parallel situation in Ukraine. The only difference is that it's Russia doing the meddling and violence.
You are so willfully ignorant to the actual facts here, that you can't even admit that Russia is doing exactly the same thing. And lying about it, just like the US did in Iraq.
Anyone looking at this objectively, laughs when they hear the bizarre cover stories that Russian state media outs out, to try and normalize their crimes. It is just as transparent and obvious as anything the US came up with during the Bush administration.
The fact that you cling to this narrative that Russia is somehow "saving Ukraine from themselves and the evil West", is kind of pathetic. Especially when you also admit that it's all about the strong taking whatever they want from the weak...and how the weak should thank them for it. It's like listening to someone justify their settler colonial bullshit, by infantilizing the oppressed population.
"Oh, they had nothing before we came along and gave them civilization." "What would these peasants do without us to guide them?" "If we don't provide them with strong leadership, they would be lost."
It's the same old bullshit that every imperial nation tells themselves, so they can sleep at night, while committing horrendous atrocities on others. You just refuse to admit it, because you identify with the oppressors.
How were they involved? Where is there any evidence of that?
What you are doing is denying Ukrainians agency in determining their own future. They have the capacity to rise up against a government that lied to them, and broke their promises, all on their own. Why would you assume they are simply mindless puppets on someone else's string?
This is why I keep saying, your argument is fundamentally flawed. You are ignoring facts in favor of wild speculation. And you are completely ignoring the perspective of the actual people involved in all these events. You blame the US for things that Ukrainians feel very strongly about, while ignoring the entire history of their country that has led to them having these very strong feelings. It is willful ignorance.
You are simply pretending that this fantasy version of reality is true...but the very real and less interesting version, is not. This is how propaganda works. You have bought a narrative where Russia is "saving Ukraine", by literally blowing up buildings full of Ukrainians. Like, what the actual fuck are you thinking? How does that make any rational sense to you?
All because "America bad"? That's not a good enough answer. It's fiction.
You did a lot of honest work here. Thank you for your service!
I am intrigued how the up/down vote ratio though. Tankie brigade in the room?
