majicwalrus @ majicwalrus @startrek.website

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2 yr. ago

I want to push back on the conversation between Jack and Bashir in "Statistical Probabilities" a little bit given additional context from Strange New Worlds "Ad Astra per Aspera." I don't think it's fair to say that all augments are treated the same way. It's unlikely I think, that even if Bashir were to have not lied to get into Starfleet he would have been prevented either by law or by policy of doing anything even remotely scientific - including medicine or other gene research.

However, I don't think we can take Jack at his word that he would have been institutionalized in the same manner. If we believe that the genetically modified people we see from the Institute in Deep Space Nine weren't driven mad by their perceived incarceration then we have to believe that side effects of the genetic modification process caused unexpected neurological abnormalities and personality disorders that we see typified by that group.

Dal, for instance, in Prodigy does not fear institutionalization in the Federation, but rather he fears he won't be let into Starfleet. Presumably he may also be precluded from other career choices that he's just not interested in, but I don't think it's fair to say that being an augment is criminal as much as it is laws have created a system whereby modified people, especially modified humans, are treated as second class citizens. This might even extend to people who have DNA sequencing done for legitimate medical reasons like Chakotay. I like to imagine Chakotay and Una and Bashir having similar experiences even though their circumstances were unique. The human willingness to look past reason and into bigotry doesn't go away, but it's focused on the genetically modified.

And it takes decades, centuries even, for the laws to change even a little bit and even longer for the people to accept those changes.

I would really like to see a series which focused on establishing a colony and the specific challenges that settlers face. There are probably a lot of interactions between civilian Federation organizations, civilian individuals, colonial governments, and Starfleet. I think there's a lot to explore here.

My assumption was that Vasquez Rocks was playing itself and that it was no longer a state park because there was no longer a state. Most of the Earth outside of cities has probably largely been left to the wilderness and as such parking your RV in any place is probably allowed if not unusual.

Earth is a functional paradise. It doesn't alleviate people from all suffering, especially emotional suffering, but there is nothing that Raffi could not have if she wanted it including a different house in a different part of the world. She is self-isolating, but she doesn't have to.

There is no "bad" economic outcomes on Earth anyway. I suspect that economic stratification comes in the form of human diaspora. Once you leave Earth to live on a colony or even just to live off-world, you might find that the world you move to doesn't have bustling cities yet and so there are no tickets to the opera.

But these are choices that we assume are more freely available.

I think we can also say that Starfleet (or the Federation) is better while still allowing the stories to be allegorical and topical. I mean, it was unfair that Richard Bashir went to jail for genetic tampering because it's a bad law, but 2 years on in a Federation prison is just not quite the same as what we have now.

But, to that end, Starfleet has always looked a little bit like this. They tried to treat Data as property. They tried to do racism against Crewman Tarses. And imperfect officers break the rules and sometimes forge evidence to sway a Romulan senator - or murder them.

Allowing for that nuance is interesting - and holding Starfleet to a higher standard also lets us understand where we as regular people need to be held to higher standards. I would love to break canon by doing prison abolition before global catastrophe.

This may also be a commentary on modern policing in America where the vast majority of those accused of crimes are never given an opportunity to plead their case because they can choose to plea down to a lesser offense and avoid jail or risk a trial that might risk 20 years. It sucks though.

To your comments about the floating nacelles - what's even supposed to be the point? I can't imagine how having nacelles detached offers that much of an advantage.

You are correct. We can't really infer much about Una's citizenship status and so letters of recommendation or sponsorships aren't of concern. But with that being said - if Una can be a citizen and be modified then so could Dal. Albeit the restriction on genetically modified people serving in Starfleet seems to stick all the way through to the late 2370s and early 2380s at least.

In fact, unfortunately, we still see a fair amount of bigotry towards modified people persisting into the 2370s, but perhaps by then the difference between a modified Ilyrian and a modified human are more substantial. Dal, being a non-human (I guess?) might face less bigotry in his era than Una faced in hers.

It's the no warp thing that really limits its ability. The saucer can 1. limp back home. or 2. stay put while the rest of the ship does something risky and then hope they don't have to resort to number 1.

I could see the saucer section being left in orbit to assist with evacuations while the stardrive section "goes for help" but even this seems like a bit situational.

This is a good point and perhaps there is unused footage that mentions Alexander in more detail which would understandably be cut out if they weren't willing to lean in on it. It's easier for us to forget Alexander existed and to wonder "maybe he died" than to waste lines on that kind of backstory - at least in some writer's opinion which I could see an argument for.

I don't think there's anything that would prevent Dal from obtaining citizenship in the Federation. He could not however serve in Starfleet. Lying about it to Starfleet could be criminal, but probably just being modified isn't. Even Una says that she lived on a provisional colony where segregation existed between modified and unmodified Ilyrians suggesting that those Ilyrians would eventually be able to be granted citizenship in the Federation despite their status as modified.

Una had to be sponsored to join Starfleet which suggests that the colony didn't actually ever join the Federation entirely - whether it granted her citizenship status or not is unclear, but since she was sponsored into Starfleet she's probably not a Federation citizen as such.

I would really like to see Prodigy take cues from SNW here and address Dal's genetics. Janeways says Starfleet will never allow him, but maybe he's just the right person to further change the law and Starfleet policy.

He was not under investigation for being genetically modified. I think a key aspect of this episode and that episode is that Julian and Una were both under investigation for concealing their status as genetically modified. Neither of them faced any penalty for having the modifications done.

It is only Mr. Bashir who is punished for seeking out and obtaining genetic modification for his developmentally delayed child. Being genetically modified isn't a crime and I don't think it was ever depicted as such - but having a genetic modification done is a crime. And having one done on you prevents you from joining Starfleet in some cases. Although for all we know Ilyrians are given exception to genetic modification rules as long as they're honest about it, but no human has ever gotten an exception so Julian lied to protect his parents and to ensure he'd get into Starfleet.

I really loved the dress uniforms. Particularly the details on the collars and on the medals. I only wish they'd done a little more with the Admiral dress uniforms. Leaving them all in Federation Blue like early Discovery is a little odd.

I would like to believe that as well, but we are left with very little to make us believe that other than good will towards Worf. It seems like a particularly glaring oversight to have the season of Picard featuring Picard and Beverly's long lost son, Geordi's daughters, memories of Thaddeus Riker's death, and the first time we've seen Worf in a long time not explicitly mention at least once that Worf is also a member of the parent club.

Instead what we do see are exclusively episodes where Worf's relationship with his son is not treated as a core part of Worf's character - even attempts to reconcile go basically no where.

A single line to Enterprise-D crew about how Alexander is the commander of an entire Klingon battle fleet now and that fills Worf with great pride would have solidified that the characters reconciled. Hell, it's kind of weird that no one asks about Alexander since all the Enterprise-D crew readily know that Worf has a son. But instead, just like the writers, Worf has apparently forgotten that he has a child and so is written as though he doesn't have one.

The decision to not even drop his name in this season of Picard really hammers how bad of a father Worf really was. This is absolutely something that should be explored in a Worf-centric story. There's a lot of context for how Worf was raised by Humans, but Alexander was not.

DS9 tries very hard to deal with this, but they actually make it worse by mistake.

Worf: "I cannot fix the mistakes I have made, but from now on I will stand with you. I will teach you what you need to know to be a warrior, and you will teach me what I need to know to be a father." Alexander: "Let's see if you mean it."

And clearly he didn't. He was too caught up in his own warrior's journey to consider Alexander. Alexander left, remained Klingon on Klingon ships and continues to be estranged from his father.

I think this can quite easily be pulled off. Lower Decks is an example of this to a degree, but for an even better Beta Canon example look at the Star Trek Resurgence narrative game. The story takes place from two perspectives Petty Officer and the ship's First Officer. Each of these characters has relationships which will impact the story and for the most part they work separately from one another, but still work together and it makes a lot more sense when the Captain sends the Petty Officers to go on the hull and do dangerous work than sending the chief of any department.

Consider that Deep Space 9's primary cast of characters includes an enlisted person and several non-Starfleet personnel or straight up civilians. Porting that to a TV show would not be that difficult and I think there has even been some success with that in Lower Decks which features lower deckers along senior staff just fine, even interweaving their stories; and Discovery which, particularly in the first season, creates characters by proximity to the story not by bridge positions. Tilly is important because she is Burnham's roommate, not because she's the chief of anything. Despite this Tilly's character is a fan favorite. Unfortunately, I think Discovery fell into the impulse of giving audiences more of what they want and that meant creating stories where a random cadet was a valued member of the team - and team was still mostly senior staff.

undefined> It represents an approach to Star Trek that was cut off far too early, one that solves or avoids the most obnoxious pitfalls of the later seasons, and one I desperately wish we could have gotten more of.

I'll comment on this most important concluding statement with agreement. Ultimately, Discovery tried to do something different and did it fairly well. It's downfall was in not being willing to take that kind of storytelling and really lean into it. Fans started talking, loudly, about changes that were made and as a result later seasons of Discovery become far more tempered. The Discovery of season 1 could have ended Season 2 by sending Burnham and Discovery to the future and introducing a whole new cast of main players in a whole new context. Instead of that, they responded to the valid criticisms of the weaker supporting characters who don't seem to have much to do and as a result the show took a much more emotional turn. They haven't abandoned these long arcs, but they've tried to tell that story in a more familiar way and in my opinion this was always Discovery's downfall.