if your argument is that wars are destructive and problematic... eh.. heh.. nobody on earth, ever, will debate that. I don't know what you're trying to win there, but.. eh...

anyway, still, even with the lost civil wars among those (a couple?) they were all worth fighting, (most because they were won). civil freedom is always worth more than servile domination under authoritarian totalitarianm. I prefer freedom of speech and worship to being forced to worship Stalin-- and, especially, the right to say that openly, without fear of being killed for saying so.

or saying, openly, that I love sucking another man's cock-- which, even in the United States, I was afraid to say so even 25 years ago-- and, I'm afraid that I may no longer be able to openly say perhaps 5 years from now

Not sure what your point was, but, ultimately, your post backs up mine: through all the sacrifice, the payoff is worth it!