binux

This is a semantic argument so it's pretty much a nothingburger. I'm just gonna go ahead and apply Alder's razor and call it here

Notice I wrote 'as you've described it'. I shouldn't have to explain that the criticism the term tankie is calling attention to in theory is authoritarianism, not communism or socialism as a whole (as the term was literally created by communists). Unless you're arguing that authoritarianism is a good thing. I guess I wouldn't be all that surprised.

Agreed! Sorry for giving you that “nuance” you craved, in any case.

I can already tell this isn’t a good faith response based on the first paragraph lol, you clearly didn’t read the article nor do you know the history of the term Tankie. Again, Wikipedia:

The term "tankie" was originally used by dissident Marxist–Leninists to describe members of the Communist Party of Great Britain (CPGB) who followed the party line of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU).

As you can see (if you care to be sincere here) it’s a pejorative term created by leftists to describe other leftists. Neither are acts of oppression defined by any of the groups you listed in this context. Be serious, please.

It's ignorant and combative because it hand waves away all successful socialist states (China, Cuba, etc) without any nuance.

Inherently biased counter-point. You can’t just pose a government as having a successful ideology, at that point we might as well say there exists such a thing as utopia. It’s entirely rhetorical and has nothing solid to stand on.

Socialism and Communism are one in the in the same according to Marx. As we use the terms today, from actual Socialists, is that Socialism is a beginning, transitory state before full Communism.

Sure, but hopefully we can agree that contemporary socialists as a whole certainly do not agree on that definition. The ideology is far too diversified at this point for that to be the case. You can’t say “they aren’t socialists then” because again, that’s entirely rhetorical. In that case Protestants aren’t Christians, and Shia Muslims aren’t Islamic. Sure that’s religion, and you can say that’s different, but at the end of the day both religion and politics encompass ideological systems. They cover different niches, but what they fundamentally are stays the same.

This is the general agreed upon consensus at a high level.

This part really gets me. What are we defining as high level? Lemmy.ml mods? Even experts on the matter wouldn’t unanimously agree, they’re not a hivemind.

the term "tankie" insults Socialists and Communists alike, as we're all working towards the same goal.

See my third point. Generalizations out the wazoo in this statement.

Where was I supposed to find a succinct rebuttal to this other than the people against whom the term is used? Wikipedia? Fox News?

Oh, I dunno… Academic sources would be a good place to start. I wouldn’t say a lemmy community is very close to that.

False equivalence and you know it.

Fair, though I edited it right after from Jew to National Socialism as I realized the error right away. You can’t say that’s a false equivalence, so ha!

This is framing the term "tankie" disingenuously if not intentionally. According to the Wikipedia article:

Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support or defend acts of repression by such regimes, their allies, or deny the occurrence of the events thereof.

It's only 'ignorant and combative' in the same way that people call right-wing authoritarianism fascism, which is perfectly reasonable if not sympathetically misguided. Not to mention socialism isn't apart of the meaning at all as you've described it.

I also find it funny that your source for the meaning of tankie is from lemmy.ml, as if that isn't the exact instance this post is criticizing. It would be like if I corrected someone on the meaning of the term "National Socialism" by sourcing Mein Kampf.

We literally have no recourse (outside of the ammo box or absurd amounts of money) against a politician taking office and doing exactly the opposite of what they campaigned on, besides waiting for their term to be over.

Fair enough, this problem is prevalent in a lot of other countries too. But again, a government is nothing without the people. There's nothing (in theory) stopping the sensible majority from making their gripes known and felt at the very least. It might feel like speaking into a vacuum, but political systems do respond to pressure, even if it's negatively. Furthermore, these problems don't come about purely through malicious politicians, constituents are either complicit or they don't take the time to understand the implications. It's harsh, I know, but it's true. This is a universal human problem, and it doesn't necessarily make anyone a bad person.

Due to tons of laws built up over many years, the only way to get a seat at the table is money, and all the community fundraising in the world isn’t going to outspend corporate interests.

Again, constituents have a part in this. We're associating a lack of direct participation in the build-up of these laws with innocence, which isn't necessarily true. Across US history, people with the means to do so had every opportunity to push back against this.

You clearly have a strong opinion that the collective population of the US isn’t doing enough for whatever metric you have...

Not true, at least not entirely. It would be unfair to indict the US population as a whole for not taking enough action, as I said it's human to be hesitant in that regard. The point I'm trying to make is that many people, especially US citizens, seem to victimize Americans and thereby deny that they have any agency. Which, unless we're trying to get philosophical, simply isn't true, or is at least a little disingenuous. I'd be far more accepting of the lack of action if this group were to own Americans' implicit part in their country and its actions.

I just think it’s absolutely rich to try and assign blame to the proletariat for hesitating to throw their bodies on the corpse pile from thousands of miles away, or even from right here but sitting on your ass taking no action yourself.

Again, not I'm not "blaming the proletariat". They have a part in current events. That much is undeniable. To say otherwise would be to separate the mitochondria from its responsibility to the cell, which as anyone who understands a little biology would know that doesn't tend to work out.

If you’re so invested in this, grab a cheap plane ticket and get to work on it yourself instead of trying to guilt others into shedding blood.

Did you actually read my comment? I'm not trying to goad anyone into a revolution.

Basing your take on the will of a country’s people on the multiple times distilled and removed news broadcasts that make it out is just silly.

Well this is just outright strawmanning my point. My argument comes from my understanding of how the government and people work in tandem across all nations, not what I'm observing from the US specifically. The government is an extension of its people and how they've come to react to their environment, it's no different with the US. Governments aren't this separate organism that guides and/or terrorizes the populous. They're (typically) made up of members of the populous itself. They are quite literally dependent on each other.

Look, I get you're frustrated, and I'm sure that you see a lot of unjust hatred and blame directed towards Americans and you're understandably retaliating against that. But this isn't just because of a general lack of understanding for American politics. It's because (essentially for the first time) Americans are taking the heat from foreign countries' citizens that they've been (though not universally) throwing toward other countries with shitty governments in an equally ignorant and misplaced manner. This is world politics, baby. People can be pretty stupid with it. Though it certainly doesn't help that the US is a global hegemony, so there's a proportionally higher amount of pressure placed on the country to not screw anything up. And the past 1.5 years or so have been the biggest American screw-up in a long, long time, if not ever. So there's really no question that there'll be even more of it to come, especially if/when it gets even worse. I do wish you luck though, you seem to be a reasonable American. I hope the people who deserve it get what's coming to them so you and others can pick up from there.

It’s some of the most absurd shit. “I don’t see you actively hunting down child abusers, so you must be a pedophile” ass opinions.

Maybe so, but it's also absurd to think that because the members of the population aren't the ones actively making decisions, they don't assume a proportionate amount of the guilt. Governments are nothing without their constituents, in fact they are shaped by them. It's understandable to be hesitant toward action, that's human. But to do all these mental gymnastics to avoid accepting part of the responsibility for what the US is like right now is disingenuous if not being blind to reality.

Grass lawns started off as a way for pretentious rich people to flaunt how much of their land they could waste on nothing important, so it’s really not worse at all. Just another dumb trend that caught on.

That's ignoring the point. Retributive justice is inherently reactive. It doesn't improve upon any of the circumstances or motivations leading to someone committing a crime, thereby limiting it to a response only after it happens. Criminals don't commit crimes simply because they were "born that way". They do it because their life experiences led them to either a) believing they had to commit the crime to improve their situation, b) believing it's justifiable in their own warped sense of right and wrong, or c) severe mental illness. There's nothing in those causes that can't be accounted for or treated beforehand to prevent the act from occurring at all. All jail time is doing is putting them in a pressure cooker that will inevitably lead to the people sentenced being even further handicapped in their ability to function in society.

Mind you I'm not against separating criminals from society for an appropriate amount of time entirely. It's just that if the primary motivation with their sentence is punishment, you shouldn't expect anything greater than a neutral outcome.

Cancer is suing the chemotherapy museum, who would have thought.

Jail isn't what's doing that, revoking his license does. The jail time is just an added slap on the wrist to make the people close to Perry feel better (which is absurd considering a guy literally died, retribution doesn't change that.) It doesn't actually solve anything.

Plants need direct light to grow… most need full sun.

The humble Monotropa uniflora:

This is what the paradox of tolerance is all about. Extending tolerance to those who are intolerant of others only serves to enable the rise and eventual dominance of intolerance, thus undermining the original principle. The only way to combat this is (ironically) to be intolerant of such behaviour on both a cultural and systemic level.

Oh I agree completely. People tend to not realize that we’re still biologically identical to Humans from over 100 000 years ago aside from the odd irrelevant difference. Nothing’s really changed in that regard.

The more pathetic decisions governments push worldwide like this, the more I start to feel like we're still in the middle ages. Of course the difference being now all the power-hungry degenerates know just how much to wring out of the lowly civilians without letting them figure out who to blame.

You got me, I'm actually Walt Disney's frozen head on a burner account

I don't see how this is a solution so much as delaying the problem for future generations to deal with. What happens when the countries the immigrants are coming from start to face the same issue (if it isn't happening for them already?) It's basically the population equivalent of the "one more lane bro" philosophy.

Let them eat beans on toast

binux

@ binux @sh.itjust.works

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I like bickering about useless nonsense with people who most definitely will not be changing their minds. Yes, I know it's a waste of time. No, I don't plan on stopping.
🇨🇦 (He/Him)

binux

.ml has got to be the only place on earth where I'd get downvoted for a comment like this

.ml has got to be the only place on earth where I'd get downvoted for a comment like this

.ml has got to be the only place on earth where I'd get downvoted for a comment like this

.ml has got to be the only place on earth where I'd get downvoted for a comment like this

.ml has got to be the only place on earth where I'd get downvoted for a comment like this

TIL that Missouri forced Kansas City to spend at least 25% of its budget on police. The measure passed, despite 66% of Kansas City residents opposing it

TIL that Missouri forced Kansas City to spend at least 25% of its budget on police. The measure passed, despite 66% of Kansas City residents opposing it

Mint

Drug counselor who delivered ketamine dose that killed Matthew Perry gets two years

Israeli group sues Canadian human rights museum over 'Nakba' exhibit

Drug counselor who delivered ketamine dose that killed Matthew Perry gets two years

‘F**k You, You Go’: Joe Rogan Rages Over Call To Bring Back The Draft

Why don't they get this?

Should hate speech be protected under freedom of speech laws?

Signal to Ottawa: We'll Leave Canada Before We Help You Spy on Users

Signal to Ottawa: We'll Leave Canada Before We Help You Spy on Users

Xbox is rebranding to XBOX

The ultimate commuting strategy

I just can't be fucked

King Charles tells Britain to weather the cost of living crisis whilst wearing a hat worth 5 billion pounds.