You choose what instance you are on. Quit the pseudointellectual whining.

"The Spirit of Reddit"

Nailed it.

We're already at peak reddit replacement if we have whining in the comments about the contents of another post whining about users. I feel so at home here.

😂

Nothing wrong with feeling entitled to tell nazis to fuck off.

This makes the Nazis sound like a bunch of Karen's lol

we left reddit because censoreship hurr durr

The people leaving Reddit because of censorship did so long ago. These dissatisfied/censored people have a new home anyway... They can view child porn, people being brutally tortured/murdered, and make all the threats of violence they want on Twitter now. They just have to be careful not to insult the, "free speech absolutist" dictator or he'll have them banned.

The mass migration today is because of dissatisfaction with Reddit's decision to end 3rd party apps and specifically, the way in which they handled it. The dishonesty, the heavy-handed dictator-like seizure of protesting communities, the complete disregard for accessibility/moderation tools, etc.

To claim that people are leaving Reddit "because of censorship" isn't just missing the point, it's flat out wrong.

There needs to be some clear guidance on this for newbies. As it is, you have to stumble across scraps of random discussions to learn about defederation and partial federation politics. You generally do this after you e already spent time on an account. Seriously, how is a person supposed to know what instance to choose up front?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

The people screaming about free speech for bigots & fascists seem to neglect the free speech of the instance owners and admins.

This is a pretty farcical argument, because the instance admins set things up specifically so that the instance users can discuss and vote on what the instance does.

That's what curation is, free speech.

What in the everloving hell is this awful take. No, curation is not free speech. Nor does it need to be.

Most people complaining have two weeks of user data...

I agree in principle but if it ends up with defederation-by-default, or something similarly restrictive, you'll kill the whole point of the federation and we can just go back to Reddit. IMO it should be used very sparingly (mostly to combat full on spam kinda like with email) and largely let the users themselves decide.

OP rants about seeing garbage from garbage instances but if you actually subscribe to the communities you want, you'll only see comments from those "garbage instances", and there can still be decent people with interesting viewpoints on there.

That's all true. I do also think that there needs to be a certain amount of built-in stability in order for federated communities to grow. People are less likely to stick around if there is a high risk that their favorite communities becomes fractured into isolated instances.

This isn't a corporation advertising to get your business it's a collective movement of people working to create a better internet, I totally understand you not liking politics but the reality of this world is that politics is important - the people runnning instances are generally doing it with their own time and money simply because they believe in the importance of the project, of course these are going to be people with strong principles.

Personally I think having a complex ecosystem is going to be a great thing when it's had time to emerge and settle but yeah for now it's all a bit new and up in the air but that's part of the fun

That's fucking brilliant, I'm going to try to make one

Yes please. I'd rather curate my own and not risk missing content because I didn't realize that some instance admins have beef or are too trigger happy with defederating.

Too far in either direction is bad. If everything completely separate was so great, then there would be no need for federation at all: but actually building a community and creating areas that feel alive is tough to do that way. People don't want to individually manage connecting to random separate servers for each community, and if you didn't connect to the right random server maybe you never even find the community you would have contributed to in positive ways.

Getting rid of hateful stuff is good, in my opinion even though some people will muddy the waters it's really not that hard to determine what constitutes "hateful stuff". But there's also going overboard. "OMG, this server allows open user signups and some random dude signed up and created an unpleasant community. DEFEDERATE THE WHOLE SERVER IMMEDIATELY! IMMEDIATELY!!!"

Maybe a better solution is to have servers publish lists of new communities but not federate them to other servers right away. Maybe they need to reach a certain age and (possibly) be subject to some sort of approval process. That will give the administrator of the server a chance to recognize and deal with the problems before it starts to spread out across the federation. Of course, if someone just lets horrible stuff fester on their server and is unresponsive then by all means it should be defederated.

Actually defederated as it works here means one party has way more power than in centralized Reddit.

https://sh.itjust.works/comment/511746

It ruins it for anyone who is not deeply in agreement with the admins.

It's admins and groupthink over users. And zero stability or discoverability. Friction with little to gain unless you're in authoritarian lockstep

Some of us are old enough to remember IRC networks splitting up and the Fediverse de-federation drama feels exactly the same. It is an aspect of human nature that cannot be solved with technical solutions.

It is completely normal for groups of humans to split up and segregate themselves from each other with some individuals belonging to multiple groups simultaneously. It's how we evolved and it's how the Fediverse (and whatever comes after) will evolve going forward.

Every instance is like a political party without exclusivity. You can belong to multiple at once. Rather than working on identity migration my opinion is that they should instead come up with a way for people to login to each other's instances with different accounts. Just like I can login to Disqus or StackExchange with my Google account I should be able to login to Beehaw.org with my programming.dev account and vice versa.

This would be very convenient from an end-user's perspective since they could access posts and comments on the instance where they live and links to communities could be handled in an absolute, universal format and it wouldn't even matter (from the end user's perspective). Because if they loaded /c/whatever on some Lemmy instance or /m/whatever on a Kbin instance they'd still be posting using their Beehaw.org account (or wherever they have an account). Links to external communities could just load those external communities and it wouldn't need so much data to be federated between all instances (e.g. comments and votes).

In regards to moderation: Even if Beehaw.org banned my account from posts/comments that doesn't really have any bearing on whether or not it should accept my account from a login perspective (it's better than having banned users browsing anonymously--because then the instance owners will know they're there). It would also allow moderators at Beehaw.org (or any other instance) to ban specific users from other instances much more easily because those users would likely stay at that other instance rather than have multiple accounts anywhere and everywhere that would also need to be banned.

I'm not sure it's entirely just growing pains. Some of the people arguing for defederation seem to be arguing in bad faith. On the other hand, it seems like they are uniting the community against defederation, which is ultimately a good thing.

I think these growing pains are a necessity and look forward to seeing how the platform evolves.

Yeah, I predict a long road of "drama" before enough user join and indtance operators won't be able to play these games anymore.

Except the user had actually more power to create a positive experience with heterogeneous content in the centralized Reddit than here.

big "I am very badass" vibes

Yeah except it's more like a room full of thousands of normal people and you saw two Nazis playing with each others' dicks in the back so you started calling the room a room full of Nazis.

What do you consider a nazi?

It literally blows my mind that people seem to think otherwise. Especially since the admins hosting an instance are basically running a charity. If you don't want to be on an instance that occasionally defederates from ones that defend hate speech, then go find a different instance, or start your own.

Something something landed gentry ;)

I assume if I stick to Lemmy this is what I'll have to do. I just a basic experience where I can see everything and not have instances arbitrarily blocked on the whim of an admin

Always baffles me how people just roll in and immediately start trying to reinvent the wheel. Bitch sit down and shut up, you might learn something.

Honesty compels me to admit that I did the exact same thing when I joined, rolled in here like "how are we going to deal with duplicate communities??". The circle of life I guess

I think they want it to be more like Reddit. Carefully moderated so they can feel safe in their echo chamber. If it isn't then they'll complain and moral bash you into submission instead of putting in the work to host their own instance.

There is a common misunderstanding. First of all, this is a Canadian instance. There is no American constitution ruling over it. Second, free speech is not limited to the American constitution, or to governments. It is a concept that is related to people's ability to express themselves, not necessarily in relation to a governmental power.

The supreme court has also ruled that "the right of the people to peaceably assemble" includes groups telling people they disagree with to leave. Freedom of association includes freedom to not associate

“Quit your Whining” then proceeds to whine.

Ackshually it was "quit the pseudointellectual whining" 😁

It's a paradox. If people around you are whining, you are somehow banned from speaking up and saying "stop", as that is also whining. Truly, no one can crack this nut

Right. OP should find a safe space and stop "whining"

Try using Connect for Lemmy instead of Jebora. It honestly seems a lot better and more stable.

You're right. That is sad. Move along now.

The only problem with that is, apart from the technical knowledge required, that the communities feed and past comments are not federated before you manually add them.

To everyone except that actual group of people...

Almost everyone does. With the exception of Brad Pitt.

Yeah, so?

Jesus wasn't a carpenter either. He was the son of a carpenter and that more likely translates better to day laborer. It was a reflection of his very humble origins. Being the son of a man in a trade (like a carpenter) would have put him more middle class.

Omg no, not the outrage muscle! 😵

Just make an account there then?

This. I love the circus. I open all the shitty instances often just to keep myself entertained. 😊 We don't even have to pay for it.

Wow Gab must be really disliked by the wide majority of people to end up in such a situation. They should reflect on why this is.

How did I get here?

This sounds like the premise for an action comedy movie that is a lot more interesting than reality.

Defederation: The Fracture of the Lemmyverse

Well that's obvious

If you didn’t like a mod team you could choose another sub easily. Same account. You could keep looking at the same place too.

Well unfortunately if Reddit admins decided that you shouldn't see something they just found a reason and banned it with no recourse. That's actually way, way worse.

If you don't like the way an instance curates content, switch to a different instance, or make your own instance and curate content yourself.

Buddy, you can always host your own instance. Most places will not de-federate small instances if they don't act inappropriately. This is the only way to build something sustainable that can't be taken away by someone.

In what universe is Beehaw "far-right", or even "right" for that matter?