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dennis5wheel @programming.dev

Socially inept, introverted employees. How do you survive the workplace? Because I’m in dire need of some serious advice.

Long post

I’m a nurse working ER. I’m also introverted and like keeping to myself. I also may be on the spectrum (haven’t been diagnosed, but I find social cues and when people are being sincere, joking or lying very difficult to understand. I understand what people say literally. Why would they otherwise speak?)

I also separate my job from my personal life, as my job is not my identity. I don’t care about my coworkers’ life but ask the ones who know more than me about anything job related, to learn, to be a better nurse, to have more opportunities.

Today I had a conversation with 2 managers where I was fired. Not from the hospital due to my union but from the ER. In a nutshell, as they put it: they (whoever they might be) see that I’m motivated and want to learn but they find my way of speaking demanding.

I have absolutely no idea what they mean. They didn’t provide any example. They however provided an example where somebody claims I told a student to put a line. I never did such a thing, but I have the feeling they don’t believe me. The never put anything on writing, or gave me anything to sign. I won’t be signing anything from them.

Then one of the managers started a monologue about he’s been working 30 years there, that communication is important. True, communication here is extremely relevant, but about procedures, patients and who does what, not about why Americans are idiots or how many children you have, not to the point of ignoring alarms, not to the point where I am the only one entering patient’s data in the computer while my coworkers speak about what to cook for dinner. Oftentimes I was the only one noticing how we’re under supplied or that some ECG cables don’t work while the chatty ones did they thing and ignored I was working while they lazy around.

I didn’t get to say all of this because they interrupted. It’s like they believe the talkative ones over me. Why would I want to work for people like that?

After this both sides talked but didn’t listen to what the other side had to say. I felt they weren’t listening to me. Why should I listen to them?

Before I left I told them I’m looking for a unit where I can learn. That’s ALL I need from the workplace to be better. To them this is not good enough.

To me it looks like this: you don’t mingle with us (us being coworkers and management), therefore you are worse than us and deserve to be ignored, but I’m not at a workplace to socialize, but to learn and to earn money. Am I the only person on earth to think like this? Why can’t people keep their opinions to themselves? I leave them alone and only talk about work. If I have nothing to say, I say nothing and learn. I don’t understand why people are so needy for conversation and thin skinned. I didn’t say this out loud because in my past people have bullied me for being me.

I was also accused of not being polite.

I’ll miss working that ER because in the 8 weeks I was there I learned stuff you don’t learn on other units. To me this unit was a good one because I learned new things and people left me alone during downtime to figure out how procedures and machines work, people didn’t complain when I looked the internet for instruction manuals or asked coworkers if we give sodium bicarbonate by metabolic acidosis or alkalosis. I was an motivated coworker, even when people who were supposed to train me sat and did nothing while I was taking samples. I always asked what I didn’t know.

I’ll also miss working with most doctors, because they were always ready to teach me stuff, so I really don’t understand why managers say my way of speaking is demanding.

My managers don’t see or don’t want to see that people treat you better and forgive your mistakes if you give them attention, if you’re likable. I’m not likable. They also don’t see that they say a lot of stupid crap if a coworker prefers to keep to himself. I also find this sad. I feel they think I’m doing this on purpose.

If you’re an extrovert and have read so far: I don’t think you understand how taxing is to care about things that are simply, irrelevant. It’s like my managers expect me to make theatrics and give attention to everyone I work with. I already did this on a previous job and it was ridiculous: fake smiling to a secretary and asking her stupid stuff for 5 minutes straight, smiling like a clown because otherwise she would feel offended. Why is that my job? Sometimes I work with 8 coworkers. Am I supposed to be a sucker with all of them? I find that childish.

I feel they presented an ultimatum: either give us and coworkers attention or be fired. I didn’t bulge because they didn’t listen.

And I still don’t know if this is a good outcome, because I’m not going to change what I am to conform to some extroverted standards of what a good coworkers is supposed to be, because I can’t and I don’t understand them (extroverts).

I don’t know if this puts me on the spectrum and I find it unfair being treated so differently because I like to keep to myself and learn during downtime.

I’ve always have such issues working for other employers. It’s clear this is who I am and trying to change me it’s like expecting a gay to like women.

But if this means I’m alone in the universe, that I’m always the loner people always talk shit about and marginalize, how am I supposed to live my life and work life then?

ETA: I inquired the union about protections for people on the spectrum and I’m waiting for an answer but even if I get a diagnosis I don’t want to expose myself to more bullying by disclosing it to my employer: the hospital I work at is full of gossips.

So what do I do?

73 comments

  • I think you are reading the situation accurately and are probably on the spectrum. I also find small talk to be pointless the vast, vast majority of the time and that a lot of people need it to actually see others as people.

    Being a blank slate results in people putting their assumptions on you. If you don't do small talk, or put on a face of enjoyment occasionally, a significant number of people will assume you hate them or are upset about something. Many people find not sharing something to be hiding something, because they were taught by society to not trust people who aren't open, which isn't really reliable but that is what it is.

    So while I think you are absolutely right, you can either stick to your current approach or fake it like I do. It took a good solid decade of practice to get reasonably good at smalltalk, and I have to fake it most of the time, but occasionally and interesting tidbit comes out and I use those to keep myself going. It also helped with being more expressive with the people I was happy to see, and whike there is a chance that someone will assume that means playing favorites it is still better than when I was extremely formal and kept entirely to myself.

    Managers tend to be extroverts because extroverts like working with multiple people. So figuring out how to navigate social settings like work in a way that kind of fits in will absolutely improve your experience in the social setting, like any other work related skill. Some of us just have to work at it harder than others if we want to be socially successful.

    Side note: A lot of people are extremely indirect in their communication for a variety of reasons, from trauma to just really wanting to see if the other person can infer what they are implying. This is extremely frustrating when one needs a clear answer, and people that can't be clear and direct when the situation requires it are the absolute worst.

  • Bro. The people in this thread are being way too nice about this. I know several autistic people who do not have these problems because they understand that they live in a world where it is expected that you are able to speak politely and professionally with other people.

    I'm genuinely shocked that you made it through nursing school with this attitude. This isn't introversion, you are choosing to be rude to your coworkers, and you have experienced consequences for those actions. You said somewhere that talking to the receptionist for 5 minutes was an unbearable chore. It's like you failed to understand the most basic social graces of any type of work (be nice to the front desk lady). You also said you've had these same problems at other jobs, and when other commenters have suggested that you try to improve your social skills, you write them off and say something to the effect of, "that's not my job. I'm not a manager." It is absolutely part your job to be an asset to the team, and being a dick is almost worse than being incompetent.

    It sounds like your coworkers tried to include you in their conversation, and you just stared at them for a few seconds and looked away without saying anything. That is the height of rudeness. It's dismissive, it says "you don't matter to me". It says "you are beneath me". Your characterization of workplace conversation as "theatrics" is very telling. When Suzy from down the hall tries to show you a picture of her dog or tell you about her kids, that is her trying to relate to you and include you in the workplace dynamic. You don't have to be interested. You just have to be nice about it and say "aww how cute". It's literally so simple, and your insistence that it is even possible to find a work situation where you wouldn't need to engage in this kind of talk is borderline delusional.

    You should try to get some therapy and maybe read some self help books about how to connect with other people. You made multiple carerr-limiting statements in your OP and subsequent comments, and this is your side of the story that you are able to tell however you want. You chose to present yourself this way in a Lemmy post, so it's not hard to assume that you're like this in real life.

  • The problem here isn't just your introversion. You see smiling at the receptionist for five minutes a day as an unacceptable working condition; but you need to understand that part of keeping a job you like includes managing your coworkers. Maybe for you that really is unacceptable, but other introverts, myself included, have accepted it as the cost of doing business.

    I have myself occasionally had coworkers or other call me rude or condescending, and I've never really found a way out from under that when it's happened. What works better is setting a good first impression, working extra hard the first few weeks to give off an impression of humility, helpfulness, cheerfulness, and kindness. Then later if you do have a bad day, or need to communicate something urgently, or need to correct someone's mistake, they'll see that as the exception rather than just "oh that's how she is".

    • You see smiling at the receptionist for five minutes a day as an unacceptable working condition; but you need to understand that part of keeping a job you like includes managing your coworkers.

      it's not only smiling, it's giving attention to somebody I dislike that tires me.

      I have no problem with work friendship that grow naturally, but they have to grow... naturally. Placing me in a environment with an instruction like 'be friends with these people' doesn't work for me.

      You write managing your coworkers, even if I'm a coworker myself and not a manager. Ain't that a manager's job?

      about your second paragraph: you're such a good actor. I'm too transparent.

      I have myself occasionally had coworkers or other call me rude or condescending, and I’ve never really found a way out from under that when it’s happened.

      and people who hear them complain are not mature enough to ask for the other side before jumping to conclusions, you mean...

      • I have no problem with work friendship that grow naturally, but they have to grow... naturally. Placing me in a environment with an instruction like 'be friends with these people' doesn't work for me

        It doesn't have to be a full blown friendship, you just have to be able to relate with people in the way that co workers do. There is a massive difference between politely humoring someone for 5 minutes and being an actual friend who would hang out outside of work, help them move, go over for dinner at their house etc, and I highly doubt anyone is asking you to do those things.

        Medicine is a team activity. Being capable of relating to and being polite with coworkers and patients is part of this.

        Try therapy or find a different line of work.

  • I've got a pretty strong feeling you're on the spectrum just based on how you present your story.

    The main vibe I'm getting is you aren't reading the culture of the team correctly and almost no matter what you do, when it comes to any healthcare field you're going to have to work with a team. If the team doesn't want to work with you or you're souring the working culture there, you're hurting the team's morale as a whole and that matters more than how awesome your personal performance might be.

    It seems you're pretty intractable on how you want to work and interact with your coworkers. I mean, you're new to workplace and you're already looking down on the people who have been working there likely much longer than you have. You would have been better served by starting out with a more humble mindset by finding ways to help and learn from your coworkers to endear them to you rather than assuming they're just lazy and not worth your time to get along with.

    Now, you aren't obligated to chat with people endlessly but you do have to be polite and nice. If you tire of a conversation, find a good excuse to end a conversation early (bathroom, forgot to do something important, etc). If your coworkers get the impression you are unpleasant, they are much less likely to help you or stand up for you if another coworker makes a complaint about working with you.

    Also, how often do you say please and thank you? If it's less than after almost every interaction with your coworkers, you need to adjust yourself. People that work in the ER get a lot of shit flung at them from patients and the last thing they want is to catch incivility from their coworkers.

    Your effectiveness at your job in a team environment isn't just your skills and competency. A good half of it is how well you interact with your coworkers and how willing they are to work with you.

    I've got a strong hunch that what happened in your situation is several of your more senior coworkers probably got to talking with each other and realized they all really hate working with you. In fact, they'd rather quit than have to put up with you and they conveyed that thought to management. When management hears they might lose several veterans in a functioning department over a newbie that isn't quite fitting in, the decision to transfer you out isn't a particularly hard one to make.

    Honestly, you kind of sound like a nightmare to work with right now. If you don't adjust your way of thinking, you're likely going to run into the same exact problems no matter what area of the hospital you end up in next.

    Trying to get back into the ER now is pretty much a lost cause for you. You've likely been branded as toxic to work with by almost everyone there. Just move on to a new environment and do better next time.

  • Exposure therapy. I worked as a server for years specifically to build the social skills I lacked. People want to chit-chat about mundane nonsense, that's the norm. We're the unusual ones for not being interested. It's trite, pointless, and boring. But most people like it, and don't like people who can't at least fake it.

    Being able to make small talk is socially as important as basic hygiene. No one wants to associate with someone who looks and smells like they crawled out of a storm drain, and no one wants to associate with someone who ignores or belittles their attempts at small talk.

    Purely socially, I say let the boring people filter themselves out of your life. Professionally, you need to have rapport with your coworkers, you are part of a team. If you're going to work in a field with an implicit social element, you are going to have to learn to navigate that social element. Otherwise you're going to continue to have these conflicts.

    That means finding at least a subset of typical conversational topics to engage with in a friendly way. That means masking with some degree of warmth and compassion. That means reframing the issue from everyone else being banal, to you being unable to integrate with banal people. That's most people.

    It'll be weird, and you'll feel fake or inefficient, but unless you want to shift careers to one with minimal interaction with other people, it's a skill you are going to need to cultivate if you want any kind of success or progression. That's just the way it is. Adapt or perish.

  • I also like to separate my work and personal life. I don't often enjoy small talk and still find I suck at it after years in the work force. I would rather work from home and not deal with people.

    All that said, humans are tribal creatures who need interaction with others. I've found remembering names, asking them how their day is going, and showing a -vague- interest in them as a person is enough to get by most of the time. Even if I don't "want" to do it.

    "Hey you said you were going golfing, how did that go?"

    "Yeah, I spent most of the weekend doing chores and catching up on house projects."

    "Have you seen the latest Netflix show?"

    "Im not much into sports, but I heard our team is doing pretty well this year."

    People remember those that treat them like a person. They also remember those that ignore them or otherwise invalidate them by not talking to them. If you want to have a job where you interact with people, you have to play the game.

  • Skill to do a job is important. However it seems that many younger people do not believe that interpersonal skills are a necessary skill because they haven't learned them. Some have much more difficulty learning them or are completely unable to learn them due to neuro differences. They have a choice to either learn interpersonal skills or find work that is isolated where others don't have to interact with them directly in order to do their jobs. Workplace accommodations can only go so far in helping if other people must interact with them in order to do their jobs. People in the workplace have always had to figure out how to work effectively with others. If they cannot, they have had to find other types of work that don't require working directly with people. What's new is expecting others to conform to individual needs instead of individuals conforming to the groups needs. Could you take a socializing class to learn the basics and get out of your current comfort zone? Your coworkers don't need you to become their best friend but they do need to feel that they are not working with a robot. (I say this as someone who had to figure it out pre-internet. I was labelled Officious & Cold in one of my first employment reviews.)

73 comments