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3d ago

Good job everyone blocking and boycotting .ml! It's having an effect, users are noticing and MAUs on their comms are falling!

And for anyone asking "Why are we boycotting/blocking lemmy.ml?" Here's a quick recap:

Lemmy.ml is an instance run by admins who are hardcore tankies and will enforce their ideology on their instance through various means from allowing (and pushing it themselves) propaganda (Such as Russia being justified in some way to invade Ukraine) and known propaganda outlets (Like RT) to removing content on their instance critical of their favored authoritarian regimes such as Russia or China and even banning users for such speech or speech critical of them if it's off their instance (Just like the Reddit mods of ol!).

If it was just some random instance it would have been defederated from long ago like the rest of the "Tankie Triad" (Hexbear and Lemmygrad), but they've positioned lemmy.ml as the "flagship" instance and abused that position and influence to become large enough to keep other instances from defederating from them.

Which I believe is harmful to the Lemmy-verse's overall growth and outside reputation. I have seen it come up before on Reddit threads (and other testimonials from people who came back and tried it again) that "They tried Lemmy but it was a bunch of tankies and went back to Reddit"

I don't know about you, but I'd prefer Lemmy to not end up with the reputation for being "Tankie Central " or even worse "Voat 2.0".

So if you haven't joined the boycott yet, join today and help us foster a better healthier Lemmy-verse!

You can take a look around here on !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works for documentation of it or checkout this list of curated documentation

On bans and censorships:

https://lemmy.world/post/28480760

https://lemmy.world/post/28481615

https://lemmy.world/post/28482147

https://lemmy.world/post/28480936

https://lemmy.world/post/28482273

https://lemmy.world/post/28481272

https://lemmy.world/post/28481064

https://lemmy.world/post/27674360

https://lemmy.world/post/27674117

https://lemmy.world/post/27673934

https://lemmy.world/post/27673724

https://lemmy.world/post/27577337

https://lemmy.world/post/27378634

https://lemmy.world/post/27346630

https://lemmy.world/post/27341283

https://lemmy.world/post/27288224

https://lemmy.world/post/27156418

https://lemmy.world/post/27054157

https://lemmy.world/post/27008261

Allowing altered headlines and permitting known propaganda outlets:

https://lemmy.world/post/28275465

https://lemmy.world/post/27428838

https://lemmy.world/post/27416097

https://lemmy.world/post/27314050

https://lemmy.world/post/27288953

Spreading Russia talking points like the Ukraine invasion just being a "negotiating tactic" !https://lemmy.world/post/27012640

General negative sentiment to other instances who haven't "seen the way" yet: https://lemmy.world/post/27426510

Open declaration of support for Russia (direct from dessalines (head admin)) https://lemmy.world/post/27352415

"concentration camps were just reeducation camps and weren't that bad" https://lemmy.world/post/26985447

256 comments

Every time a ml/hexbear community that I might be interested in pops up on my feed, I block it, then manually search for a non-tankie version of the same thing and immediately subscribe. The amount of pro-authoritarian content I've been exposed to has dramatically dropped.
- I just instance blocked them, good riddance. Too bad I do occasionally have to see posts from their users on other instances.
  
  I just instance blocked them
  How do?
  
  You can block the users too! At least on connect, and I think on voyager as well.
- you can instance block, just foundout by going to SETTINGS>BLOCKS> scroll down all the way to the instance option and block them there.

In a recent discussion in the Matrix chat, it was mentioned that donations to support development have recently fallen off quite steeply. I mentioned my reason for not donating anymore is because I can't support anyone who runs an instance like .ml. @nutomic@lemmy.ml said I could donate directly to him since he doesn't do as much moderation over there, but also mentioned that donations for development go towards server costs for .ml. Hell no.
- Also nutomic is a transphobe
  https://lemmy.ml/post/18761554
  Which is reason enough to not give them any money in my book
  
  Checks the screenshots. Extremely mid take regarding sports that's shared by a lot of people that aren't terminally online. Transphobe, alright.
- Nutomic also said that trans identity was western propaganda and has doubled down on that statement several times.
  
  Are women bourgeois?
  
  Can you link to that?
- I could donate directly to him since he doesn't do as much moderation over there
  I'm in the modlog a lot so I can confirm that that is true, however, like @fiddlesticks@lemmy.dbzer0.com mentioned, he shares a transphobic flavor of their mindset sooo yea
  but also mentioned that donations for development go towards server costs for .ml. Hell no.
  LMAO "Donate directly to me and you won't have to worry about it! Butttt it'll still go to the exact thing you're opposed to."
- @nutomic@lemmy.ml said I could donate directly to him since he doesn’t do as much moderation over there
  Having observed a few different types of small team dynamics in my time, my speculation from a distance is that nutomic is the sensible one who does the bulk of the actual work, and dessalines is the other one.
  He kind of has my sympathy and I do like Lemmy as software and it is clearly a good thing, but at the same time, at this point in the world if someone on your team is working to silence anyone who talks about Russia in unflattering terms, you can go fuck yourself as far as I am concerned. I am happy their instance is failing and I hope it keeps on failing until they stop doing legwork for murder, tyranny, rape, and torture. Honestly, “I wish my internet place had more users and people didn’t make fun of me so much” is a pretty mild negative consequence to experience from that.
  
  Nutomic thinks trans people are bourgeois propaganda
- Nutomic is .ml, not doing much moderation is an excuse probably because he has underlings to do it for him.
- If we all stop donating to Lemmy just because the devs are being tankies, how will Lemmy survive?
  I don’t want to go back to the bot-ridden reddit with its elon-simping CEO.
  
  If the devs being tankies kills this space then it doesn't matter.
  I like Lemmy too, but i don't like it enough to financially support transphobic fascists.
  
  There is always another site or an community.
  
  That's a fair question, and maybe we should be concerned. They're already saying development will stop without more donations.
  There are alternatives. Projects have died or been forked before because of the actions of their developers. OrganicMaps comes to mind (they are both a fork of something, and recently a new fork was started to detach from the developers (I can't think of the name).
  I'm just one person, but I'm not going to give .ml any financial support, you can be sure of that.
- but also mentioned that donations for development go towards server costs for .ml. Hell no.
  Having taken donations for similar shit before: isn't that illegal if they aren't open about it? Had I done that with my donated money I'd have been sued out my fucking ass
- Glavset must be tightening its belt.
- Cutting off funding because of political differences is stupid. Would you rather this go down the same path as Reddit?
  
  If you peddle propaganda and justify genocide and wish more genocide on the world, I side with the people you deem stupid every single time.
  
  (different user here)
  No, but I want the funds to only be used for Lemmy development, not for their tankie server. They are the ones that make it impossible to do one without the other.
  
  If the political difference is between building a multistory carpark or underground carpark with a park on the ground level, sure, it's stupid. If the political difference is "Russia does nothing wrong, Ukraine deserved to get invaded because of nazi" and "Russia is to blame for being the aggressor", then it's definitely not.
  You're allowed to fund propaganda machine, and people allowed to not do it.
  
  It's not political differences, really. Go ahead and be communist, I don't care. It's the heavy handed moderation style. It's a 1 sided instance and anything to the contrary gets deleted and a time limited ban. They go against exactly what they think they stand for.

cause nobody wants to get dragged into a ten page discussion about why China and Russia are the most democratic countries in the world

I got banned to 40 days from .ml memes for arguing that the republicans were worse than the democrats or something mild like that.
- "Arguing against the far right party? That's a no-no for our leftist instance!"
  
  TheY'rE bOTh tHE SamE
  
  I find it time and again.
  
  Remember, a true socialist will criticize Democrats and say nothing about Republicans (except agree with them about gifting Ukraine to Russia)
- They sure screech about democrats and then it’s just silence for republicans.
  
  I don't know how anyone can honestly believe that trump and Biden are even comparable, let alone equally bad.
  
  Are you sure it's not the other way around? Are you sure it's not most liberals excusing everything the Democrats do, including genocide, but can't stop talking about how dangerous Republicans are?
- In the USA their is only one party and that is the imperialist war mongering party
  
  I mean, I take your point, but how about you make it without literally contradicting reality?
  
  Posted from your Alt account, lol.
  
  Care to share how you feel about what happened in Tiananmen Square during the summer of 1989?

I actually like seeing their posts on my main account. It allows me to keep up with their lingua franca, so I can more easily identify their alts on normal instances, so I know not to attempt to engage in good faith.
- What’s the newest words to look out for?
  
  Is usually not individual words, that's the point. They scrub certain words and phrases to try and hide but they still have a certain way of speaking that you don't hear anywhere else.
  It's like some people I work with. They don't use any bigoted slurs or quote crime statistics in my presence but they say other things. Things that normal people, including myself, might say, but they say them in a way that I never hear them said outside of some of the uglier parts of the internet or in a certain kind of company. They don't even know they're doing it, they think they're hiding but they keep saying things that in a safe space, for them, is followed with a sentence that contains bigoted language.

I think the whole "saying anything different from what we like? You're banned" thing is also playing a good part.
- I think they really have no idea how unpopular their viewpoint is. If you ever go and look around at "Lemmy" based on how it looks when hosted on .ml or Hexbear, it looks pretty dramatically different. I think part of the reason the mods are so aggressive with this kind of censorship is that it creates a really surprisingly effective illusion that a lot of the world agrees with them. You can find off-instance communities where people post a counter-narrative if you search, but that's easy to write off as "the lib instances" or something. I think they have no idea how far in the minority they are.
  The name for the cognitive bias involved is "what you see is all there is." Your brain doesn't take account of content which is hidden from you, so if 90% of what you see is pro-Russia, and everyone there is of the opinion that anything outside of that is weird Western propaganda and distorted and fake, it's pretty easy for your brain to run with it. And once you're in that box you have no idea that you're in the box. And also, a lot of propaganda frameworks like that are self-sustaining (describing any contrary information as deliberate lies or giving this huge emotional emphasis to reasons for discounting them, so it's really hard to bootstrap yourself out of the box.)
  I'm not trying to make excuses for the people who are running the operation, I have to assume that they know better. Although, maybe not. Maybe they have some other kind of dysfunction and really think they are standing up against US imperialism or something. I do also think that professional troll farms are also involved in creating the impression, too. My point is, I think the average users may be genuinely confused by these events and see them very differently from the rest of Lemmy does.
  
  "What do you mean people don't like us supporting imperialism? We made up our own definition of imperialism that excludes imperialist countries we like."

I joined Lemmy in November. By New Years I had independently figured out what was wrong with .ml and its users.
The less of that garbage, the better.
- What app so you use to browse lemmy and how do I block .ml?

Lemmy.ml seems to just downvote different opinions in masse without responding with respect.
After a few attempts to engage respectfully and just getting negative interactions I just blocked them entirely.
- I'm new here and did not realize that, at first, I was only seeing .ml. I was so uncomfortable with the Russian/Chinese propaganda I created an account and ended up switching to this community mainly by accident. Glad to see my discomfort was justified.
  
  since alot of us have migrated from reddit we see the same type of content, so it was easy to recognize it here, and i usually block them.
- If they can't outright censor it (such as if it's off-instance) then mass downvoting is all they have left to try and control the narrative.

could you pls put the exclamation marks on the links to those posts in the same way you did for !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works ?
thanks for this concise list of stuff .ml has done btw
- He can't.
  Unfortunately, lemmy only supports instance-agnostic links (like, that are written to link to a user's own home instance) to a community. It has no syntax permitting for this with links to posts or comments.
  If you're using Firefox, you can install the Instance Assistant for Lemmy & Kbin, and it will modify pages on non-home instances to have a button in the right sidebar that will take you to the post on your home instance. With that, after you follow a link to a non-home-instance post, you can bounce to the corresponding post on your home instance.
- ~~Edited, but I wasn't aware it was needed for direct posts URLs, does it not work on your client if there's no exclamation mark?~~
  Reverted
  
  You had it right originally. You can't do what he's asking for, which is unfortunately something that Lemmy doesn't support today. See my response to him. The exclamation syntax lets you make a link that, when viewed by viewers on different home instances, will take them to a view of that community on their own home instance. Can't be done (today, anyway) for posts or comments, which is what you're linking to.
  EDIT: Looking on fedia.io, it looks like unlike lemmy, mbin automatically converts links to other instances to local links, without any special syntax. All of your links on fedia.io's view of your post are to views of the posts on fedia.io.
  I suppose that mbin's approach might get a bit annoying if you want to link explicitly to the other instance, for troubleshooting or something, but I think that it's probably addressing the most-common situation that people want correctly.
  EDIT2: Looking at piefed.social, piefed appears to have lemmy-style behavior rather than mbin-style behavior and doesn't convert the links to local ones.
  EDIT3: And for completeness, since my own home instance runs a number of alternate lemmy Web UIs, and those could theoretically do the conversion in the frontend:
  Mlmym (the "old"-Reddit-style Lemmy UI) does not do the conversion, so lemmy-style behavior.
  Photon does do the conversion to local links, so mbin-style behavior.
  Something seems to be broken with the Voyager install on my home instance; can't see this community there, so can't check it.
  Alexandrite does not do the conversion to local links, so lemmy-style behavior.
  EDIT4: Oh, wait. Voyager is working. It just doesn't use the same URL path syntax as the other frontends.
  Voyager does not do the conversion, so lemmy-style behavior.

Lemmy .ml is partly why I switched to an instance which defederates them. The admin and mod behavior over there is gross. If it weren't run by the Lemmy devs it would be widely blocked.

I tried to tolerate .ml because they've got some good linux and foss focused communities. Ultimately I decided it wasn't worth it.
- With genocide apologist defederated, another comnunity will surely take its place. A community that's purpose is not to poison your mind.

You know, the differing opinion isn't so bad. It's that they're such pricks.
- well put. and every Marxist-Leninist I've met irl has been cool, these pricks are either misrepresenting the entire movement or doing it in the worst, most alienating, factually challenged kind of way.
- if the opinion is annoying and doesnt provide constructive conversations, opinions almost one-sided anyways and holds bias, i always block them if they become annoying.

Yeah, blocked hexbear too.
Those people are absolutely fucking unhinged and do not engage in any sort of good faith argument.
After one round, I got name called, after round two asking for clarification, I just left.
Time is precious, the squirrels in my yard are more coherent than these chucklefucks.
Hell, even two crows would be better
- they are more or less the same side of coins as conservatives, they even whine and post the same way.

I'm lucky to not have been too exposed to most of their tankie apologetics for authoritarians, but I did notice a pretty staggering number of them were under the impression that Trump and Harris were literally identical.
And no, I don't mean in the "the democrats are center right and often vote similarly to republicans on many issues" 'identical' view, I mean "They both do an equally bad amount of things, just in different areas, and neither is worse than the other" 💀
- The amount of "both sides" is gross tbh.
- Only like 3.5% of the world's population lives in the US. So if you happen to live in a country that has been negatively affected by US foreign policy in the last 50 years and don't much care what happens to people inside the US right now, or what labels and pins they put on their jackets, yeah there is little difference between red and blue. Like if you ignore what ideological they profess to and simply look at their actions on other countries.
  Empathy can be "disabled" though certain ideology or religion. Saying such radical things like "no difference" is an attempt help people snap out of this "sociopathic trance". Or at worst an attempt to mock or scold you for defending an imperialist regime that has caused countless deaths and immense suffering over the last 7 decades.
  Obviously this is futile. And lemmy is much more pleasurable when blocking such people.

so thats why ive been seeing so much communist propaganda lately
- I'm a lemmy.ml user and I can confirm you won't see any communist propaganda on our instance. Communism was defined by Marx as stateless, and is therefore counterrevolutionary bourgeois propaganda. Us Marxist-Stalinists only support authoritarian socialism. If anyone tells you .ml is communist, they're spreading lies to make us look bad.
  
  and is therefore counterrevolutionary bourgeois propaganda. Us Marxist-Stalinists only support authoritarian socialism
  You don't see the problem with openly admitting you're a horrible person?
- For sure, I only want to see capitalist propaganda.
  
  Or, and bare with me here, neither. I don't think a single person here would miss a Beat if tomorrow all ml instances along with exploding heads / hilariouschaos and any other kin instances to them all just disappeared.
  
  Then make a .world account and look at local posts
  
  Capitalist propaganda, also known as reality

"Known propaganda outlets (like RT)"
Sorry but... What's RT mean in this context? Rooster Teeth? I've got no clue.
- RT stands for Russia Today.
  
  Thank you for answering
- Just absolutely love your guess though
  
  Lol my B. Couldn't think of anything RT as an abbreviation but that
- It's those damn Reds, again.
  Edit: sad the guy made a comment about rooster teeth and people don't know what Red vs Blue is so they down vote.
  
  I can't tell if "reds" means communists or if this post was written by Church.
  
  I do know RvB, sorry! Just hadn't looked at my phone till now!

I was against blocking them because i dont want to create an echochamber(and i still support this on an instance level) but after they banned me and just keep downvote bombing anyone whos not a fucking poo tin or whinnie boot licker i had to block them.
- they were never posting/arguing in good faith, ml and hexbear are insular echo chambers. the amount of posts i accidentally entered in ml and hexbear were all badfaith arguments. i pointed out sg1 in some propaganda discussion, and they called it to "liberal propaganda"
  
  And when you say anything anti-Hamas or Stalin you get people who just continue to insult you and downvote bomb you.

- and ML. its almost always like cons instant, constant whining of the state of things.

I appreciate this. Id been gone from Lemmy for a bit but just unsubbed from all the .ml groups I had.

I'm kinda still new here, so thanks for the info! I think I've figured out how to block the instance, but is there a guide on blocking or something or a way to check?
- You cannot block an entire instance in Lemmy today. The best you can do is block seeing posts from that instance in your timeline. The users are still free to send you death threats. The Lemmy devs have promised this feature later in the year, but given how it will likely be used against their .ml instance most liberally, and they will have fewer victims to attack, I am dubious it ever gets released.
- Usually clients have some option to do it but the steps might be different based on what client you're using.
  Right now I'm on Voyager for example and if let's say I wanted to block your instance I could click your profile and click the options. One of the options on that screen is "View Instance" and from there I have the option to block the instance.
  There's also post filters but I know a lot less about setting those up. But iirc one of the things you can filter posts by is the instance the post comes from.
- Block OP and you will never see these kinds of posts again. OP is a butthurt troll which does nothing but rage against ml all day.
  
  Blocking you would be a far more productive thing to do. cm0002 isn't a troll, but you sure are. Always bringing the dumbest, most idiotic takes to every discussion.
  
  Block OP and lemmy becomes a ghost town

I'm on Mbin and started on Kbin, so I've tied my cart to a sequence of single devs. But, are there any Lemmy devs who aren't connected to ML?
- I think both the Lemmy main developers @nutomic@lemmy.ml and @dessalines@lemmy.ml are also the ml Admins. There are other contributors but none of them is doing this as their main job.
  
  Nutomic is also a massive transphobe who claimed that trans identity is western propaganda, and Dessalines is a massive cringe lord who drapes himself in the moniker of an actual freedom fighter to compare their struggle to the one he fights from his air conditioned computer chair.
  
  That makes it a challenge. If you defed from them, you might lose access to upstream patches, or beta features. I'd love for Mbin to become the standard-bearer for the threadiverse, but Lemmy has gotten name recognition.

I wish feddit.org blocked lemmy.ml. I keep getting vitriol and queerphobia from their users.

Yay another thread where .ml users will post so I can block them!
Hopefully we can grow up as a community and defederate completely one day!
- Oh and all of their alts too!

Thanks for the recap. I kinda get the instance federation stuff, but not fully. I realize they are flagship or whatever, but it aint like its that big a ship, even on the biggest one. Is there any consideration of defederating them now?

Switching accounts will result in the same for many of these grubworms, as they will simply be blocked at the individual level when they start saying shit that nobody wants to hear.
- There's a lot of clueless users though, it'd be good to have them join the rest of us outside that shithole

I just block every site and user with that ending that I see. I've been banned on almost any of their sites anyway.

Thanks for the recap!
Anyone wanna remind me how to block an entire instance? I’m on Fedia, if that matters.
- certainly,right click your profile> Settings>blocks> scroll all the way down and you will see the instance block.

I've had them muted on Boost for a while, haven't missed 'em XD

Thanks for the heads up, just added to my block list.

I always go in and argue with those Tankie fucks when I have time, but I haven't even seen them in the feeds lately.
- Active Operators will block know counter propaganda operatives since they know it is a futile exercise.
  
  Lmao, nah
  The intention of the exercise is not to appeal to propogandists. It is to inform readers who stumble upon propoganda.
  If what you claimed were true then the offending instances would not ban us for speaking the truth. They need to scrub clean our presence because we're effective.

This just made me realise my feed is just that bit cleaner and there's so much less news, it's actually quite calming.
- yes same, its just them whining, much like con posts do the same.

i found out earlier how to block instances like hexbear and ml.

Like it or not, we can shine a light and hope they see.
I am as libertarian (as opposed to authoritarian) as they come, and I still hope I (and others who share my sentiment) will be able to convince them the merits of a world with human rights, diplomacy, and freedom — that is not needlessly violent and forceful.
We can move past barbarism, but to do so we must define what comes next to those who have shut their hearts to the truth — especially to those who have spent arguably too much time reliving the horrific violence of the 20th century.
I don't need to boycott them, I don't feel the need to block them. Everybody is within their rights to do so though, but I will keep slowly trying to win them over to the idea of a more kind and free world.
Creating Lemmy and the fediverse is of incredible value to humanity. They provided a timely medicine to the internet — a decentralized platform that is not controlled by an American corporation and ruled by algorithms. I don't feel like it's a lost cause to do my best.

@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone

What’s the easiest way for me to block and hide it?
- Option 1: Move to an instance that doesn't federate with them, like lemmy.cafe.
  Option 2: Go to the settings page on the website, and block the instance. This will stop you from seeing comms on that instance, but you will still see comments and posts by their users in other comms.
  Option 3: Client-specific. If you're using another client besides the default website, most of them have some way to block and hide all users from an instance as well, usually somewhere in the settings.
  
  Thanks!!

Propaganda on the internet? Oh great heavens!

LOL pathetic.
Fascists and anarchist are birds of a feather indeed.
Censorship for every opinion they don't like.
Good they never accomplished anything

You can use any instance you want, except well...

Idk, I personally find that ML isnt that bad. Granted I may be a bit biased as a leftist but when I discuss my Anarchist positions I see significantly less censorship than world. Furthemore whenever I see massive Transphobic spam attacks its 9/10 from world. In addition I have had far more genuene conversations on ml communities and with ml users. However I cannot say the same for world users/communities which are known to shut down discussion by calling it "tankie" (yes even Anarchist discussion). Due to that it has become abundantly clear to me that the term "tankie" has very little if anything to do with authoritarianism and everything to do with leftism.
- Granted I may be a bit biased as a leftist but when I discuss my Anarchist positions I see significantly less censorship than world. Furthemore whenever I see massive Transphobic spam attacks its 9/10 from world.
  The modlog just doesn't reflect that, there's no widespread issue on .world as far as I've seen in all my time in the modlog.
  What I do see from .world is a bunch of moderators doing moderator things and very little admin actions, which is what you would expect from any instance of size. It's the opposite with .ml, and that should be a huge red flag in of itself.
  Are there bad mods and bad mod decisions? Sure, that's going to happen anywhere, but I don't see the .world admins in every comm across .world removing posts and comments critical of a certain agenda or to push a narrative, like on .ml.
  As far as "transphobic spam attacks" that can happen on any instance, .world being the biggest (literally double in size from the next biggest) means it's going to be targeted more. And again, I see it being dealt with accordingly in the modlog, in fact that's one of the main times I do see non-.ml admin actions in there, site banning actual bigots.
  Plus if .world really had a transphobe problem, ada would have defederated from it by now.
  However I cannot say the same for world users/communities which are known to shut down discussion by calling it "tankie" (yes even Anarchist discussion).
  Have you seriously not seen .ml tankies throw around "liberals" or "shitlibs" in the exact same way
  
  Plus if .world really had a transphobe problem, ada would have defederated from it by now.
  Ada hasn't defederated from lemmy.ml despite the admin transphobia.
  
  What I do see from .world is a bunch of moderators doing moderator things and very little admin actions
  Yeah that gets annoying when you're the moderator of a non-world community and I am. They rarely ban people and they allow anyone to make a new acc very easily.
  but I don't see the .world admins in every comm across .world removing posts and comments critical of a certain agenda or to push a narrative, like on .ml
  I keep seeing people say that but I havent personally seen that and I have said a lot against authoritarian regimes
  I see it being dealt with accordingly in the modlog, in fact that's one of the main times I do see non-.ml admin actions in there, site banning actual bigots
  I have been called a "self hating trans person" for being a leftist and had my entire gender invalided, called "fake" more times than I can count by world trolls and I have found nearly every time they were applauded.
  Plus if .world really had a transphobe problem, ada would have defederated from it by now.
  There are talks and serious considerations, many blahaj members want this
  Have you seriously not seen .ml tankies throw around "liberals" or "shitlibs" in the exact same way
  Tbh there are many times shitlib is more than justified and I see it very often. Common shitlib arguments include "we should compromise on the Israel-Palestine conflict, what if they only genocide half as many civilians?", "yeah I support Trans rights, but what if you gave up sports and trans youth as a compromise?", "yeah the system is rigged but if you dont vote blue no matter who you're not trying hard enough". Shitlib makes sense, it says you are a liberal and you are full of shit. Meanwhile tankie is just a blatant attempt to categorize the entire left as authoritarian.
- significantly less censorship than world.
  Haven't been on this comm much eh?
  
  I have, I have also seen world comms ban even mild critique of the Democrats. For people who claim to hate tankies y'all do enforce blind loyalty to the party quite often.
- but when I discuss my Anarchist positions I see significantly less censorship than world.
  What kind of censorship are you seeing? I usually don't hang there so I've only really seen their liberalist "anti-violence" suppression of Brian Thompson posting. Which honestly is enough reason to avoid, but I'm curious.
  Also, agreeing from experience with the transphobia and hilarious ignorance of rabid anticommunists.
  
  Generally that and "civility" anti revolutionary sentiment. It leads to people being more accepting of fascism than real antifascism.

I feel sorry for you that this is how you spend your free time.
- Lol ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ we all have our hobbies bro, don't hobby-shame
- Do you look down upon journalists? What cm is doing isn't much different than journalism. They're collecting evidence, bringing attention to and exposing wrongdoing to the public, just on a smaller platform.
  
  depends on which journalist, working for MSMs i wouldnt take thier articles genuine.

- Stop using Lemmy > accepting russian propaganda.
  It’s not a difficult choice to make, mate
- Mbin is a thing

Boo ya'll suck
- constructive and erudite as always.
  pffft
- k

To paraphrase an old saying... Socialists will freely make us the rope to hang them with.
- Its not them being socialists thats the issue, its them supporting authoritarianism.
  
  Yupp. Be socialist or even fricking MAGA all you want, as long as we can discuss in good faith and stick to the facts.
  The moment you say vaccines causes autism or that China is a democratic heaven, you can kindly kiss my posterior.

dotworld user
Pot calling the kettle shit tbh
- Blahaj user
  Shit calling the manure rank tbh
  
  What's wrong with blahaj? I thought they were one of the cool servers.

Which I believe is harmful to the Lemmy-verse’s overall growth and outside reputation.
Those admins you say are hurting lemmy are literally the developers who made it.
Also, fuck growth. It's the cancer that drives enshittyfication and destroys our planet.
- Those admins you say are hurting lemmy are literally the developers who made it.
  We're all well aware, just because someone does something good does not give them a license to do whatever they want. Lemmy itself is apolitical, its code for a link aggregator type of social media, nothing more nothing less.
  Also, fuck growth. It's the cancer that drives enshittyfication and destroys our planet.
  Growth for the *sake of profit * is cancer yes, but growth of the Lemmy-verse and the Fediverse at large means a tiny bit less traffic on the cancer that is corporate centralized Social media
  
  Lemmy itself is apolitical
  This is an absurd statement.
  Its birth was political.
  Its development model, licensing and network structure is political.
  Its anticaptialist financial model is political. And this is not trivial or disposable. This is why there's no ads or addiction-driven features shoved in the code. That's why it's not subject to venture capital and prone to enshittification (in the original sense of the word). That's why people and communities can host diverse instances. That's why you can join lemmy.world and block lemmy.ml. Those aren't decisions in a vacuum or ideals arising from moral purity, these are the results of choices based in ideology. And even if an instance claims to be apolitical or even contradictory in politics, or even if a fork of Lemmy does this, this does not invalidate or evaporate Lemmy's political factors, it only adds others. For example, lemmy.world is infamously liberalist, and bans people in congruence with that ideology: see Luigi discussions for a clear, well-known example, as well as being more tolerant of bigotry: see /c/conservative
  What Im talking about isnt idealistic or hypothetical. To see this idea in action, see the beginning of BlueSky enshittification already forming. And look at the much older Mastodon which has resisted these same pressures. Mastodon can avoid the enshittification because its political structures are not beholden to profit and popularity, while BlueSky is pressured, e.g., to comply with Turkish state censorship to avoid losing market share.
- Open Source Software can be forked. There's no reason to tie code to its creators, and no reason for Lemmy's code and platform to inherit their creators' terrible reputation.

Haha ok. I would never be happy sitting behind some blockade on the fediverse, unable to even see what others are saying. Its funny that you are so afraid of their opinions that you have to lock yourself in the basement. But you do you. :)
- No one is afraid of their opinions. Everyone who has been on the fedi for a while has heard them, over, and over, and over. The mods, and the portion of the users who are grouped in with them, are campists who will defend anything places like China do, even if it is the exact same shit as the western imperialists. They also tend to spout a lot of apologia for harsh, punitive, legal systems, and police states, as long as it calls itself socialist. Hell, don't even need to do that anymore, just have to be like "hey NATO imperialism bad!" and they will come to defend the honor of a country that is actively annexing, and colonizing, other states, because imperialism is acceptable when it isn't the west. It is just them defending themselves, and/or liberating oppressed people, just like the US claims every time it bombs somewhere into the dirt. I have witnessed multiple instances of .ml users automatically dismissing any data from any source "western", while claiming you aren't capable of having a good faith argument, if you dismiss information from the CCP, in kind.
  I find that the large body of .ml users are not like this, but their mods, and a significant portion of the users, namely the most commonly seen names, are very much this way. There is no argument to be had, there is no fruitful discussion here. They are in their camp, and they can't seem to truly understand people can hate both camps, and actually not want what either offers. So why interact at this point?
- Yes, "Mao was good actually" is terrifying to me. It's such a fresh, novel, and revolutionary concept that I feel my mind unraveling every time I see a brave ml warrior post it. Same with "war is bad so Ukraine is bad for defending against invasion." The sheer intellect required to achieve such a unique understanding of these concepts is truly intimidating.
- Haha ok. I would never be happy sitting behind some blockade on the fediverse, unable to even see what others are saying.
  There's a difference between a veteran Lemming making a conscious choice to "see the other side for themselves" and a tentative-ex-Redditor checking the vibes of a new unknown place.
  Its funny that you are so afraid of their opinions that you have to lock yourself in the basement. But you do you. :)
  Lol, no. I've read their opinions, debated them multiple times even, and have come to the conclusion that their "opinions" are as toxic and/or dangerous misinformation as far-right "opinions". Authoritarianism is authoritarianism whether it's right or left shaded.
  If anything, I'm afraid of the potential damage it's doing to the Lemmy-verse.
  Every person that comes here, is another person Reddit has lost and another notch against corporate social media. And that's a beautiful thing worth protecting IMO
  
  100% agree with the last part. But misinformation is fought by having discussions about it, not by censoring it.
  You say you are afraid of the potential damage its doing to the fediverse. Well, now you have removed your voice from the discussions. They will still be there, even if you are not looking at them. You just walked away from it.
  You know when you "protect" kids by not talking about something, it only becomes more exciting to them? I dont know, I rather just talk to the kids about it. Have a laugh about how weird the world is together.
  And I agree, debating them is not really worth doing. But state your opinion and walk away. I have some unpopular opinions too that Lemmy doesnt like. But I keep saying them. Because i still think im right about those things. But im not going to debate for long. Its not worth our time.
- Ignoring the misinformation, support for genocides and authoritarian regimes, no one is afraid of their 'opinions'.
  It's just that most .ml users are absolute cancer to discuss with

Russia won ww2 get over it
- Really funny you had to make another account just to troll because .ml is blocked by so many
  
  It really is hilarious. They can't resist the urge to try and spread their filth outside of their instance, and get laughed at and shit on every single time.

Fuck Ukraine. Nazi state
- don't be offtopic
- I occasionally see people sying this but where does it come from? Afaik Ukraine has as much of a white supremacist problem as Russia, but it is not mainstream or the majority
  
  It comes from one of Putin's justifications for invading Ukraine. One of the "objectives" was to denazify Ukraine. Tankies will point to neo Nazis like the original Azov Battalion fighting for Ukraine as proof Putin was right. Has 0 basis in reality but tankies dont live in reality.
  
  Afaik Ukraine has as much of a white supremacist problem as Russia
  Source? Keep in mind I am a non-white Ukrainian who has lived in both Russia and Ukraine and I speak the languages.

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