Pennsylvania elected official resigns after she made a gesture similar to Elon Musk's controversial gesture
Pennsylvania elected official resigns after she made a gesture similar to Elon Musk's controversial gesture
"controversial gesture". It's a Nazi salute you pathetic journalist.
Also I wonder if Fetterman will be hiring her.
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Wow, CBS still diligently avoiding calling any of this what it very obviously is to anyone not trying to protect Nazis. I guess CBS is happy to be known for visibly protecting Nazis.
CBS is billionaire oligarch propaganda
It's kind of like so much of the "liberal media" keeps calling those terrorists that stormed the Capitol (as part of something that was planned for fucking WEEKS and MONTHS) "rioters".
They brought weapons, including guns, too. They planted bombs. They had a fucking gallows out. They brought zip-ties to restrain Congresspeople and who knows who else.
They let bullshitters on the right keep getting away with saying they were "unarmed". That is a fucking lie and they let it slide so very often. And now their narrative is that these terrorists were "overcharged", because I saw that dickhead Watters use that term more than once. The qons are apparently going to send brown people to Gitmo for being brown, meanwhile, these terrorists, who should have gone to Gitmo, are given a blanket pardon.
If they call it a nazi salute Musk will sue them and could win because he isn’t provably a member of a nazi organization. He could be a neo-nazi but CBS can’t call him one without proof.
So call it a "fascist salute", "Hitler's salute", or "the salute that the Nazis used"
All of which is factually correct.
Fascist salute would be the best choice as you aren’t engaging in libel. He supports fascism around the world. He is not a German fascist trying to create a master race to lead a 1000 year reich which is what Nazis believe.
Go do that in Germany and see what happens, if you’re so sure it’s not a Nazi salute.
Hey how about you reread that comment you completely misunderstood.
Oh, sorry, I must have missed the part where you said it’s a Nazi salute. If you believe that then spending this much time arguing about how there’s no way it could be proved in court that it’s a Nazi salute gives the wrong impression.
Especially since for public figures (like Musk) the bar for libel is much higher, and requires that someone know what they said was untrue.
I said they cannot call it that because of libel suits given that he is not a German fascist whose goals align with Nazis which is what US law requires.
Yes, you said that, but it doesn’t make it true. The bar for libel is much higher for public figures, and it would have to be false that it was a Nazi salute for anyone to be found guilty of libel.
You cannot both say ‘no obviously I believe it was a Nazi salute’ and ‘nobody can call it a Nazi salute in the press because they’ll get sued for the crime of lying about someone.’
It isn’t a Nazi salute just like an American waving their hand and saying “hi” isn’t an American salute. It is a fascist salute. The press can call him fascist but calling him a Nazi implies support for Nazism and he does not support Nazism but rather a different form of fascism.
This is about me explaining why the press is reacting this way. i am not showing support for this and it highlights a lack of comprehension when you suggest so.
Lmao, okay, so now it isn’t a Nazi salute. In that case may I refer you to my initial comment: if you think it’s not a Nazi salute, go do it in Germany and see what happens.
You are making up excuses for the press and for Elon Musk’s actual Nazi salute based on a flawed understanding of what libel is. And you seem totally uninterested in the actual legal definition of libel as it pertains to public figures, how curious.
I do not engage with debate perverts so now that you have revealed yourself this is done.
"It's not a Nazi salute if it doesn't come from the Nazi part of Europe, otherwise it's just a sparkling fascist salute."
Literally your argument.
No, my arguement is he isn’t a member of the Nazi party. He has never demonstrated any belief in Nazism as a result he will win any libel suit he files against those claiming he is a nazi.
Musk is a fascist but he is not a Nazi. All Nazis are fascist but not all fascists are nazis.
Oh, I see. I didn't think to check the Nazi party registration list. I was under the impression that anyone can be a Nazi by simply doing Nazi things. Good to know there's a Nazi certification process to keep people in check.
I hope all those people who keep it a secret or generally low-key know that they can't actually be a Nazi without being certified by the Nazi party.
Like all those people who march around in masks with Nazi flags. They're not actually Nazis, so we can all feel safe now.
Thanks for that peace of mind.
Do you have evidence if Musk doing any if these things? No, you don’t so even by your own idiotic standards he wouldn’t be a Nazi.
We have clear evidence of him doing a Nazi salute. No other evidence is required. He was caught Reich-handed.
He was caught Reich-handed.
Good gods that's a great line.
He would definitely not win. What he did is a Nazi salute. Whether he thinks what he did is one doesn't matter because he did a Nazi salute.
If I flip someone off, I can tell people I was just letting that person know I think they're number 1, but that doesn't mean I didn't flip them off.
It takes a real coward to not call out a very clear and worldly infamous hand gesture that has existed for 80+ years, when a man that also spews hate rhetoric throws it not just once but multiple times. Further, to my knowledge he has never even denied it, just joked about it and criticized people that criticize him.
I take issue with you using the adverb definitely here.
We don’t know how a court would see this and whether the gesture itself is enough or whether you need to have intent to be doing that.
It’s well documented that this racist doofus is a little awkward and he could reasonably say he was trying a dab and messed it up. You can’t prove intent with something like this. I do believe he was doing a Nazi salute for what it’s worth, but the courts have a higher burden of proof than I do.
He would win because it is not just a Nazi salute. As another description can be used and he isn’t known to be a member of a Nazi organization and “nazi” is an insult Musk would gave what he needs to win a libel suit.
If you haven’t noticed the media that calls it a “Nazi” salute tend to be in countries where libel is harder to establish than in the USA. There’s a legal reason behind why all these American papers are avoiding this.
Finally even IF these media sources did win they will be out millions in legal fees.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/laura-smith-elon-musk-salute_n_6797ced6e4b0792017b78e5e
https://www.newsweek.com/pennsylvania-county-official-resigned-after-salute-video-2021155
Guess we'll see how much these journalists with a spine will be successfully sued.
Your first link calls it an “alleged” salute which is different than calling Musk a Nazi
The second calls it “apparent” which again is different than outright calling Musk’s actions a nazi salute
The third doesn’t mention Musk at all and calls her salute a Nazi salute. This is because the recently unemployed lady likely cannot afford to sue while the wealthiest human in history absolutely can
Last link makes no mention of Musk.
NOT A SINGLE LINK shows what you suggest. This is because what I am saying is true.
I get where you're coming from, I do, but can we please stop with the purity tests?
Takes a pretty spineless person to clutch at pearls over calling a Nazi a Nazi.
"In the video, Smith taps her chest three times with her hand and then puts her arm straight out, saying, "My heart goes out to you.""
That doesn't sound like a Nazi salute to me. I wish the article had the balls to link to the actual video in question.
Found it here:
Yeah, it's clear she 100% knew what she was doing. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
No, responsible reporting doesn't make assumptions about anything even if it's obvious. And considering the litigiousness of the article's subjects, it makes sense to fall back on softer, if far less precise, language.
I swear, the demographic of Lemmy has no fucking clue how journalism actually works.
Oh please, what utter spineless bullshit, we understand how "journalism" works, can't offend Nazis because they'll lose ad revenue.
When journalist won't call a Nazi salute a fucking Nazi salute then journalism is worthless.
You just keep supporting Nazis while the rest of us actually push back against Nazis.
Source: Married to a journalist.
Not offending anyone or fear of lost ad revenue doesn't enter into it. Journalists are required to use pedantically precise language for the sake of accuracy.
This is why the use of "allegedly" or "person of interest" have become over-used to the point of being punchlines.
Was it a Nazi salute? I'd say it was.
Is there an equally plausible explanation, like she was intentionally trolling people and generally being a basic bitch? Absolutely.
Given that doubt, a journalist, a real journalist, is not going to call it one way or another. Not their job.
Obviously there's some level of objectivity journalists have to have, but this description of Elon's Nazi salute is absolutely sane-washing and gives the reader the impression that its all a big hubub.
Laura Smith resigned from the Towamencin Township Board of Supervisors after a video in which she mimicked a gesture made by Elon Musk during a rally related to President Trump's inauguration. During a speech, Musk held his hand to his chest and then extended his arm saying "my heart goes out to you." Some said the gesture looked like a Nazi salute, while others said it was a harmless gesture taken out of context.
They could've just said
During a speech, Musk held his hand to his chest and then extended his arm, in a similar gesture to a Nazi salute
and they still would've been in the realm of objectivity that you describe. But instead, they downplay it all in a single sentence by saying, "Some said the gesture looked like a Nazi salute." They won't even bring themselves to say "Many said the gesture looked like a Nazi salute."
All outlets have to do this sort of shimmy, sure. But we all see the direction that they shimmy, and it's not toward the direction of truth.
They could have used "alleged Nazi salute", they didn't, they used the BS "controversial gesture". That's cowardly and white washing behavior helping to normalize the abhorrent behavior.
And no calling a Nazi salute a Nazi salute is not a purity test for fucks sake.
Having watched it, it's complicated. The arm outstretched with the punchable smirk on her face is definitely Nazi.
Tapping her chest first is not, which is how it falls under "controversial gesture" territory.
It is not 100% Nazi so any reputable journalist isn't going to call it that.
And that's just complete BS and why trust in journalism keeps declining.
If you honestly think that not calling a spade a spade is reputable journalism then journalism is worthless.
Coming from Germany where a gesture even vaguely similar to a nazi salute is a criminal offence I naturally have a different stance on that. What fascists enjoy doing (and this pattern can be seen all over the word) is provoke with gestures, statements and symbols that look very similar to their fascist equivalent and they always have that smirk. They think it's very clever. When called out on that of course they feign outrage and again with a slight smirk. Journalistic integrity needs to recognize these patterns instead of giving the "benefit of the doubt". They are being played otherwise because there will never be definitive proof if they did it or not.
There are very old posts on American neo-nazi BBSes that instruct users in this exact process. They know exactly what they are doing, even the “aren’t I clever” smirking is part of it.
Interesting. I always thought it was just some kind of a shared mannerism, didn't expect there to be actual instructions for that. Do you have any more info on that?
Oh btw, here's some journalist with some spine and integrity but I guess they're not real journalist according to you and your spouse.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/laura-smith-elon-musk-salute_n_6797ced6e4b0792017b78e5e
https://www.newsweek.com/pennsylvania-county-official-resigned-after-salute-video-2021155
"It's just a joke, bro" isn't an excuse for embracing Nazi symbols. Ironic Nazis are still Nazis.
See? There you go.
I've defended ZERO Nazis in my replies. ZERO. Yet, you're throwing out purity tests and assuming / calling me a collaborator for pointing out journalistic practices.
JFC Lemmy is Godwin's Law all the way down.
Its not Godwin's Law to call a Nazi salute from a man who publicly supports neo-Nazis the world over what it is. That's just recognizing a fact. CBS could do this with all journalistic integrity intact.
Pathetic.
Godwin's Law was suspended back in 2015 when the qons went all-in on donvict.
lmao, assumptions. No journalist who says, "Elon did a Nazi salute twice," is making an assumption. They are reporting the fact that he did a Nazi salute twice on TV. You could maybe argue that a journalist saying, "Elon Musk is a Nazi" would be making an assumption, based on the fact that he did a Nazi salute twice on television. And I'm sure you would argue that, because you certainly sound like a Nazi defender.
But nobody calling Elon's Nazi salute as they see it is assuming anything. We all saw it and we all know what it was. Even if he didn't intend for it to look like a Nazi salute, that's what it was. Anyone trying to make it out that it wasn't a Nazi salute, tiptoeing around language, is justifying doing the Nazi salute. You are defending the sane-washing of someone doing a Nazi salute. You think responsible reporting is normalizing the Nazi salute by dancing around the word Nazi? Well, then I, a non-journalist who is allowed to make assumptions, will assume you are a Nazi sympathizer.
We know how it works, we're saying it shouldn't work that way. Is that not obvious?
Meanwhile, Republicans keep claiming things like "BLM and 'antifa' [1] burned cities to the ground" and with no consequence for that outrageous lie.
[1] It's weird how butthurt the qons get about a group that is apparently everywhere, including in the room with them right now, but also against fascism. But don't call them Nazis!
The day I start walking on egg shells to cater to Nazis, I'm checking out. The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi, and with nothing left, I'll take out as many of those fuckers with me as I can.
I'll never be a sympathizer like yourself, so I'll never get to that point, but that sentiment stands.
Trying to not upset the oligarchs with accurate language and reporting is a big part of how we got here IMO. it's not a purity test to want the media to call a Nazi a Nazi.