Democrats should have listened to Bernie Sanders, historians say

Yes, but people forgot that his real message was to get out there an be the change. Bernie's message was never about relying on or believing in the Democrats, it was that change only happens when we mobilize.

He told us to get out there and run ourselves and get personally involved and invested in our local politics so we can be the revolution.... We just chose not to listen to him.

He told everyone to vote for Dems, instead of make a legitimate opposition to the right

It is not the voters job to embrace a progressive modern platform nor is it their job to get themselves energized over said policies

But both parties have shoved that false belief down voters throats that is the voters' faults when they fail to deliver

This honestly makes so much more sense than anything else. I think you nailed it. Republicans are motivated by money and exerting social control so they write up manifestos (p2025), take over the courts, work hard to disenfranchise voters, lie, cheat, anything is on the table. The DNC does indeed seem fairly comfortable with losing by comparison, despite the fact that the leftist ideals they supposedly dabble in create a moral imperative to never lose. I wonder if Republicans fucking pay the DNC money to run these candidates we all know aren't the best. They're just good enough to get votes against mother fucking Trump. But not always good enough to win, barely good enough when they are, typically.

It's downright sad that I can't think of any argument against this.

And the rich.

Imo, you've got all the prices. However, I would put them in a different order.

Short answer: Republican or Democrat, the candidate that spends the most wins. Therefore, fund raising is winning.

There's a small group of king-makers in the US and the candidate who offers them the most becomes president. Recently, the people who decide who gets to be president has started to include social media companies and amazon, who hosts half the Internet. Trump also cozied up to the American owner of the company the owns tiktok. Thats how he won. Trumps also great for social media engagement and news channel views.

Even candidates who happen to be better than the republican candidate, no democratic hopeful worth being of "the left" will ever be given enough money to become the president of America. Even if they started from a position that would appeal to them, they would have to compromise on everything that made them that in order to be allowed anywhere near the Whitehouse by the American ultra wealthy.

What you're seeing isn't the failure of the Democrats to correctly triangulate but the strength of the American ultra wealthy consent manufacturing machine.

I'm not thrilled with the DNC either, but I'm not buying this whole idea that they are shooting themselves in the foot on purpose. The DNC does better when they win elections.

In previous elections, the candidate that raised the most money was more likely to win. Also, a moderate Democrat won the last election. They made the decisions they made in this election cycle because they thought it was their best chance of winning.

I don't have access to the data that they have to determine whether the leftist that Lemmy wants on the ticket could actually win the general.

I'd certainly like to believe that it's just that simple and all the DNC needs to do is put up a pro-Palestine Democratic Socialist and the election is in the bag... I just don't know if that's the reality on the ground. If that is not the reality on the ground, are the leftists that stayed home still committed to their protest? Or is there a point at which they would admit that we haven't had a true leftist on the ticket because a true leftist is not viable?

I hope someone can put together some clear data to answer that question soon... I'm afraid that a pro-Palestine Socialist will get crushed by AIPAC funded attack ads about Marxism and supporting terrorism that will really stick with moderates, and that no matter how energized the base is it wouldn't be enough to win the general.

Berine had the biggest grassroots campaign I've seen in my time alive, bigger than Obama, more individual donations than any candidate ever.

But the DNC knew if they ran a real progressive it would threaten their corrupt racket

I will never forget or forgive the DNC for 2016. I worked on his campaign. I went to the primary, in my state at the time a caucus, and felt the energy and excitement of everyone. He was the real deal. Unfortunately, he's a little too old now.

Other Dem campaigns often don't invite their voters to help out like Bernie or Stacey Abrams - instead they ask for money repeatedly. I got a million texts for money this year. It's giving "Election Christmas" in a capitalist way.

Yes, because Trump's second term would now be over.

We all did, you're not wrong.

It's a sad reality we all woke up to on Wednesday. Learning that the majority of Americans are ignorant, racist, misogynistic, selfish assholes.

This is what many said in 2016 after Clinton lost but we still did it again in 2020 and yet again in 2024. If I were a betting man I'd say that if there's sill an election worth having in 2028 we'll see another, even further right leaning, centrist Democrat win the nomination.

To me the main takeaway is that I live in a completely separate reality from most voters. I would have voted on a dead dog over Trump. He is mean, narcissistic and never shows any empathy. On top of that he is clearly losing his wits. If a majority of voters prefers a candidate like this, is even enthusiastic to vote for him, what can you do?

I also know that Lemmy skews left, but I think we have to face the fact that most voters have no ability to empathise with those worse off. There is no left wing politics without empathy and solidarity. What most of us here want is dead.

It was also copium. After the infamous debate we all knew Biden wouldn’t win and had made a mistake.

The fact that he actually backed down just gave a lot of enthusiasm to what could come next. It was historic and made us all stop focusing on the fact that he should have never ran for 2024 in the first place.

Biden: you’re immune. Have some fun with it. Show us you have skin I the game

You may not remember, but it's only been a few months since Biden said he "wouldn't really care if trump won as long as he tried his best".

He literally doesn't have any skin in the game, the party leaders don't really give a fuck.

They raise a billion fucking dollars, light it all on fire and go out to brunch.

This is the most infuriating part, and it made me happy I kept replying STOP to all their fucking "ZOMG 10X MATCHING" texts. They blew all that money and their political consultant cronies made out like bandits. They outraised and outspent Trump and have fuck all to show for it.

I mean, why would the DNC give he left the time of day?

Passed biggest climate bill, forgave most student loans in history, rescheduled weed, etc. And yet? It's never good enough nor enough to give them a chance to do more.

All with a threadbare Senate majority with two "independent" dems and only two years of a house majority.

The real proof in the pudding is the way the greens took such a large percentage of the elecetoral college vote so obviously to recapture all that the dems need to move left. The people have shown their power.

I think they mean that her running mate did some progressive stuff as governor. Or maybe we're just so far right now that referring to LGBT as if they're human beings counts as being progressive

At this point maybe the democrats just need to embrace these hard positions and normalize them. The gop doesn't appear to care how radical their stances are and they get votes regardless of the racism. Trump's whole shtick has been normalizing bad behavior and gaslighting the other party into thinking any wrong they do is a gotcha- they're operating on two very different rulesets.

The thing is, we've seen what the working class wants: Not concrete policy that will help them, but to have their feelings of struggle, outrage, and anger acknowledged and reflected back to them.

The Democrats could have radical pro-worker, pro-working-class reforms in their policy platform, but if what they're broadcasting is "things are great" energy, or "there are bigger fish to fry" energy, then they're going to get ignored.

The Democrat's talking points have focused on the health of American institutions. That's the thing they've repeatedly signalled is most important to them.

It's not what's most important to most households. It's actually pretty far removed from the top of their lists of concerns.

The electorate is actually far more progressive on the issues than the corporate media lets on. But the minute the Democratic Party were to embrace Bernie-style positions? You can bet that not only the “liberal media” would declare this sO vErY eXtReMe, but all the big money would be spending against them, and spending against them hard. Think it’s bad now where crypto, Elon, and the Washington Post are tilting against the Democrats? Imagine they actually embraced progressives…

It would be worse than you imagine. Wouldn't need the liberal media or the big money to move against it. People don't translate policy positions into support for candidates. They vote on vibes, and any candidate espousing consistently left-wing positions sounds like a dangerous socialist to a good 2/3s of the country.

Not saying I love it, I just don’t know what the answer is.

Education. We just signed over the official apparatus to the fascists, though. So, uh, it's gonna be much harder than it should have been.

Bernie isn't the exception that proves the rule:

He's not a fucking Democrat.

That’s what happened in 2015/2016. BeRnIe Is So ExTrEmE!

Yes you do. We all do.

Every single text i got had donate in the first sentence. The DNC had a very singular message this cycle and it was donate. It shows the flaws in the system and it shows the flaws in the party. Until i start seeing serious conversations about serious fuckin issues like repealing Citizens United, universal healthcare and proper privacy laws I can no longer consider the DNC a serious organization.

Remember, the DNC admitted in court that they are an unaccountable private corporation

Further, Bernie is a progressive whereas Dems are status quo

If she was running on a progressive platform I never heard about it

Here were some progressive policies promoted by Harris, which we aren't going to get because people thought Trump would get them cheaper eggs:

Launch a National Health Equity Initiative to address health challenges that disproportionately impact Black men. Take on pharmacy benefit managers Have Medicare cover in-home health care Extend the $35 cap on insulin and $2,000 cap on out-of-pocket spending to all Americans Eliminate the filibuster to restore the Roe v. Wade precedent on abortion Ban corporate price gouging on food and groceries Will not raise taxes for those earning less than $400,000 a year Roll back Trump’s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans Enact a minimum tax for billionaires Increase the tax rate on long-term capital gains to 28% for those earning at least $1 million a year Expand the child tax credit to $6,000 for families with newborns Quadruple the tax on stock buybacks Provide first-time homebuyers with up to $25,000 for down payments, plus more generous support for first-generation homeowners Build 3 million more rental units and affordable homes Outlaw new forms of price fixing by corporate landlords Pass the Equality Act to protect LGBTQ+ Americans from discrimination Ensure that no former president has immunity for crimes committed while in office Require Supreme Court justices to comply with ethics rules Impose term limits on Supreme Court justices Raise the minimum wage Eliminate taxes on tips Establish paid family and medical leave End sub-minimum wages for tipped workers and people with disabilities Double the number of apprenticeships End four-year college degree requirements for federal jobs where appropriate Limit businesses from "unnecessarily" using criminal arrest histories, convictions, and credit scores in employment decisions Sign the pro-labor PRO Act and the Public Service Freedom to Negotiate Act Generate 25 million new business applications Expand the startup expense tax deduction for new businesses from $5,000 to $50,000 Increase the share of federal contract dollars going to small businesses Provide 1 million loans to Black entrepreneurs, fully forgivable up to $20,000 Legalize recreational marijuana Enact a regulatory framework for cryptocurrency Extend the expired Affordable Connectivity Program to support internet access

You know, the one where she said we need to accept Palestinian deaths so we can get cheaper bread.

Not even a single term

Hell, if the US could finally get rid of this first past the pole, winner takes all system, the democratic and Republican parties wouldn't even exist anymore, they'd both be replaced by better parties

also see:

How the Hillary Clinton campaign deliberately "elevated" Donald Trump with its "pied piper" strategy

Honestly, your democratic party is very right wing to most of European. And you saying people give up on politics and turn to sctivism is so sad.

If the government doesn't take care of his poor, minorities, what are they doing.

Just do what Republicans do to get there way but for good. I honestly can't think of one dem policy that has been as impactful as some of the top Republican changes in the past 50 years.

its not a bug but feature. They exist to sabotage people interest and giving them false hope of an alternative. we have become one party two candidates system, where one markets racism other wokeness, both of which cost their mega-donors nothing.

It's amazing how much shit is obvious if one pays attention to the big picture and follow the current trends towards their natural conclusions

This shit really was obvious all along, and I don't even live in the US

This is about messaging, not policy. Most people don't really pay attention to actual policy, so it's more about convincing your average Joe you're working for them. Bernie had that, Biden and Harris didn't.

I think the inherent problem with the build back better deal is it's still framed within the neoliberal trickle down economics of post Regan America.

Would it have increased some workers protections and child care, sure. But it would ultimately be a gift to the shareholders and owners of corporations able to tap into the 3 trillion dollars of funding.

Americans are tired of progressive bills that vicariously improve their lives by further bribing the economic class that actually have their boots on our necks.

People are tired of seeing headlines that the American economy is doing fine while they struggle to put food on the table. Nobody cares if your bosses retirement portfolio is breaking records when they have to pull overtime to maintain the same quality of life they had 20 years ago.

We just couldn’t pass it with Manchin and Sinema resisting.

There are always enough Manchins.

Yeah, and maybe if progressive voters showed up en Masse we wouldn't have had to rely on those two. Imagine that progressives. Imagine that...

I legit could not believe they accepted that endorsement at all, much less ran with it as hard as they did.

I vote for Democrats because I kinda half to, not because I want to.

I wanted to vote for Sanders. I voted for Biden and Harris.

The implications, like supporting a higher minimum wage, universal healthcare, labor protections, unionization, and ending the forever wars?

Like the other out-of-touch libs, when you say 'working class' what you mean is 'racist white rural people'.

Half my coworkers were either born outside the US or are second-gen. My national just voted to affirm and support trans rights. Turns out, people who work for money are working class. That includes, well, everybody.

This misunderstanding is why the Dems 'moved to the right' this election. They still think it's 1950. Moving to the right doesn't make you appealing to the working class, it makes you appealing to bigots.

Literally just make life easier for the working poor. That is all you need to do.

What are the implications?

I wish you the very best of luck. The main issues you'll have will be, in order: funding, funding and funding.

Anyone being serious about this will have to spend most of their time thinking about that. Its why they always, eventually, end up being g captured by the powers that be. But they can do a lot of good before then, in the right circumstances.

One solution is through part of the party being a sort of union of trade unions. Unions have money, similar values and members who would potentially join. Membership subs would be another. They can do an awful lot of good but unions can also come with their own long list of problems you'll have to keep your eye on.

Whatever name you choose, check out the formation of political labour movements, as a kind of road map to building what you want. An example would be the labour party in the UK or NZ. It'll have to be done your way and for an American electorate of course but im sure you won't need any inspiration from me or any other country for that part.

Check out the working class party that started in michigan in 2016.

I guess we'll just have to put up with a couple of months of this fantasizing bullshit, before people realize just how much the paradigm is going to shift... We aren't going to be talking about organizing parties, because it will be moot.

Any real opposition will be removed (imprisoned and/or executed), and anything that remains will be purely for show.

Well, that would be a good way to guarantee republican dominance, yes.