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Michigan congresswoman Rashida Tlaib declines to endorse Kamala Harris
Michigan congresswoman Rashida Tlaib declines to endorse Kamala Harris
www.theguardian.com
Michigan congresswoman Rashida Tlaib declines to endorse Kamala Harris
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101 评论
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Whilst I respect her view on the situation in Gaza, is this not cutting your nose off to spite your face? There will be NO ability to influence a Trump and more broadly Republican government unlike a Democrat one. In fact under Trump you will see more overt support for Israel and even worse a contraction of US involvement in the situation to temper aggression. Also, given Trump's war like provaclivity in the past, with authorising a strike in Iran, it is likely going increase the likelihood of escalation and a more widespread conflict.
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100% and it takes a pretty shallow view to think otherwise.
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I’d say entitled is a more apt description.
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Only if you think you are going to get what you are going to need with Democrats. And we have Democrats. And we're not getting what we need.
Sometimes you have to do things the hard way. Rashida's job depends on her extolling the will of her constituents. Her job is to represent them not a brand called the DNC. If the DNC can't be in the right on this matter, it truly is their problem.
I think after this cycle we see the progressive block moving back to being 'independents', since Democrats have proven to be an unreliable/ worthless caucus member. Which is fine. There is probably more power on the outside right now.
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I think after this cycle we see the progressive block moving back to being ‘independents’
The thing is, we need to start jockeying for position immediately. Don't wait until presidential campaigns start rolling around in 3 years before signalling a departure. These things take years to pick up steam.
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Isn't that what this article is signalling? This is Talib breaking, imo, in the strongest manner possible with the party.
Talib is a Democrat not endorsing the Democrat for president. This might be Talib doing what Talib thinks she needs to do to hold her seat.
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Perhaps you are right and she is the beginning of it. It will be interesting to see if she picks up a lot more support once the election is over and the focus is no longer on blocking Trump.
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Progressives need to start campaigning for the 2028 primaries as soon as possible. We cannot let the genocide wing of the party claim to have a mandate.
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lol, this again? God, you're relentless in your staunch belief that pouring more effort into the problem will solve it.
This is how you burn out your constituents. Iteration after iteration of failing while refusing to change tactics.
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Ooh. Tell us again how we just have to wait for RCV to come along before progressives can do anything. I was wondering what the next "just wait until after" was going to be once the 2024 election had passed. You're jumping the gun a bit.
Iteration after iteration of failing while refusing to change tactics.
Actually preparing for a primary as early as possible IS changing tactics. Primarying a sitting incumbent instead of meekly accepting the incumbent IS changing tactics. Accepting the constantly sliding timetable of delay tactics from centrist party leadership is NOT changing tactics. It's what got us here.
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They did so since last year. This is not last second not unexpected.
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It’s a bold move. I suppose if you let in the guy who 100% supports the genocide and they go through in full with it, then you no longer have the problem 🤷♂️
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So... Both parties then?
Edit: both parties support this genocide 100%.
If you want to differentiate between Trump and Harris, you need to use a different policy position to do so. Gaza isn't it.
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Every Palestinian American who has lost a cousin to an American bomb after reading your comment:
I get it. I get it that you are intentionally trying to not understand what is happening right now. But your lack of understanding doesn't change what is hapening.
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This isn't 'A cousin' situation.
I have multiple friends who've lost the entirety of their extended families.
Aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews and grandparents gone in a day.
The jackasses going around calling people 'entitled' for not supporting the party directly responsible for erasing their entire families from existence are entitled to be able to go through life with absolutely no empathy or imagination.
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The thing about voting for Harris is that if she wins while endorsing genocide it signals to the DNC that their constituents are either pushovers who can't make demands of their elites or okay with genocide. There's a very real argument that setting this precedent is going to be worse for America than four years of Trump with a Democrat Senate (assuming democrat voters don't drop the ball on Senate elections) that's doing opposition instead of cheering on the genocide. If the Dems know they can ignore their constituents and win, they'll pander a lot more to Republicans and hasten the decay of American democracy.
Note: I say genocide because this is the most important issue to Muslim voters, but it could be immigration, the lack of a primary, or any other DNC nonsense this election cycle.
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The thing about voting for Harris is that if she wins while endorsing genocide it signals to the DNC that their constituents are either pushovers who can’t make demands of their elites or okay with genocide.
Centrists know this. They're angry because progressives are not pushovers who are ok with genocide.
We need a competitive primary in 2028. We didn't get one this year.
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No, centrists who are against the genocide are over here thinking, you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face. The president isn’t a dictator, the country isn’t a monolith, and you don’t understand how the three chambers of US government works.
But hey maybe that’s the point, you’d rather destroy the system and get a dictator. I love having the freedom I have and it’s served me pretty well these years. I support the cause, but I’m not willing to walk with you if it means the end of democracy.
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I'll ask: What's your plan when another Trump surfaces for years later? Will you still say vote blue no matter who? What about the four years after? Do you think the Democrats will listen to a constituency that will vote blue while they ignore them and refuse to even hold a primary?
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What's your plan when Trump wins this time? Why won't that plan still work in 4 years if another Trump does surface? Unless you don't have a plan and just want to rip the band aid off to get it over with. I don't like how the DNC operates and we need to work to change it but if Trump gets elected with no plan in place to control him he will just wipe Gaza off the map and build a golf course where it used to be.
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What's your plan when Trump wins this time?
I mean I'm not American so my plan is to watch either way, but I'd hope the plan is to pressure the DNC to push actually electable candidates, hold real primaries and not ignore their constituents. I mean, I don't expect that to happen because Democrat voters have proven time and time again to be spineless and incapable of organizing—which is what allows the DNC to get away with this nonsense—but that's what I'd do if I was a politically active American.
Why won't that plan still work in 4 years if another Trump does surface?
The current DNC and Democrat voters' unwillingness to challenge it create an inherently unsustainable system that will only end with a Trump victory and the erasure of democracy (likely) or the DNC managing to push through the waves of Trumps while moving rightwards, picking up Republican policies while not allowing democracy to function until America effectively ceases to be a democracy (unlikely due to the first possibility, but possible). That's my problem with the "shut up and vote for her" stuff: It assumes that there's a light at the end of the bootlicking tunnel. Y'all need a way to get the DNC back on track and you need it fast, because this is a version of the gambler's ruin where instead of money you're gambling democracy and, to make matters worse, lose democracy even if you win the bet.
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I mean I'm not American so my plan is to watch either way
So you don't really have a stake in this.
Y'all need a way to get the DNC back on track and you need it fast, because this is a version of the gambler's ruin where instead of money you're gambling democracy and, to make matters worse, lose democracy even if you win the bet.
No, you're the one gambling democracy because Trump winning right now would guarantee an attack on all the institutions we have in place to try and maintain democracy in the US. If you're confident those institutions will hold and be able to curtail Trumps plans to subvert democracy then sure, none of this matters. But if you aren't confident in the US Supreme Court and Congress then it's foolish to think Trump will just leave after 4 years if he wins this time.
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No, you're the one gambling democracy because Trump winning right now would guarantee an attack on all the institutions we have in place to try and maintain democracy in the US.
That's not what I meant when I said gambling democracy. Lemme just...
In statistics, gambler's ruin is the fact that a gambler playing a game with negative expected value will eventually go bankrupt, regardless of their betting system.
If you, on average, lose democracy every election, then you need to change the game you're playing or you'll eventually arrive at bankruptcy (aka fascism), and I don't see anyone talking about changing the game. It's all avoid Trump but yeah, then what?
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I get what you meant but what you're proposing is just losing democracy all at once vs bit by bit. At least one option gives us more time to find a solution. This isn't just a philosophical question for a lot of people, maybe it can be for you and that's great, I'm glad you aren't concerned about a Trump presidency.
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Sure, my plan:
- Donate & Volunteer to candidates I support
- Vote for candidates I support in the primaries
- Get as many of those people elected
- Call them and donate to causes that advocate for what I believe in (SLPC, NAACP, CCL, EFF, etc)
- Call them and donate to causes that advocate for ranked choice voting or something better than FPTP
- Throw my hat in the ring one day
I can't control what others do, I can only strive to influence others. So to entertain the question, if a dictator gets elected - I will fight, I will protest (and have) up until the point that I can't or it no longer presents as a viable option for change. And if we do ever get to that point, then I'd reassess my options.
And as for your ignore constituency statement, I get it. I didn't like the way it went down either. The timing was terrible - I was with Joe up until that disastrous debate and then yea, I started to call people and voice my concern. I responded to survey saying he was unfit. Morale was low. The powers that be decided on Kamala, and I stand by much of her platform. I liked her as a top candidate in 2016.
And I'll just present you with this idea. Wouldn't it be so lovely to bookend this racist moron and all of his racist followers with a black man preceding him and a black woman after? I think that gives me a little bit of hope and faith in America.
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I guess I just don't have enough faith in democrat voters to do anything like this in large enough numbers, but I hope for the sake of the rest of the world that they do.
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No, centrists who are against the genocide
Don't exist.
are over here thinking, you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Already voted for Harris.
But hey maybe that’s the point, you’d rather destroy the system and get a dictator.
Already. Voted. For. Harris.
I support the cause,
Whose?
but I’m not willing to walk with you if it means the end of democracy.
I already voted for Harris.
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101 评论