Remote View

6mo ago

First Presidential Debate Megapost!

Here we go, the first Presidential debate between Biden and Trump begins at 9 PM Eastern/6 PM Pacific.

How to watch it:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/25/politics/how-to-watch-cnn-debate/index.html

"The CNN Presidential Debate will air live on CNN, CNN International and CNN en Español, and via streaming on Max for subscribers and without a cable login on CNN.com. CNN will make the debate available to simulcast on additional broadcast and cable news networks.

You can also follow CNN’s live debate coverage on CNN.com, which will include analysis and fact checking."

"According to parameters set by CNN in May, all participating debaters had to appear on a sufficient number of state ballots to reach the 270 electoral vote threshold to win the presidency and receive at least 15% in four separate national polls of registered or likely voters that meet CNN’s standards for reporting.

Polls that meet those standards are those sponsored by CNN, ABC News, CBS News, Fox News, Marquette University Law School, Monmouth University, NBC News, The New York Times/Siena College, NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist College, Quinnipiac University, The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post."

Edit And that's it! Thanks for watching everyone!

tl;dw:

Consensus is Trump didn't so much as beat Biden as Biden beat himself.

The real loser is CNN who failed to fact check anyone, and there were obvious fact checks on both sides.

574 comments

Oh. My. God.
It's literally two old-as-fuck fucks arguing about their golf swings. This is literally how the debate is coming to a close. I just... I don't even know what to say.
- That was ironically the best summary of the damn debate. Two out of touch liches talking about golf.
  I wonder how the liberals feel now, that pushed Biden on electability and rejected any more radical options because they were too scary and conflicting with the party line.
  
  I liked the golf part because you can tell it REALLY ticked Trump off.
  
  They're as confident now as they were in October 2016.
  
  Or anyone period.
  
  Or even other moderate options.

The moderators should be ashamed of themselves.
Trump hasn't answered a single question in 20 mins.
"I just wanna go back to that."
They are allowing gish galloping like a motherfucker and Biden has to defend himself from a thousand lies AND answer the question asked while Trump spews bullshit unending.
- Not a single fact check. It's not that hard to state when something is inaccurate and challenge the speaker
- Oof, yes, we need opponents for this guy who understand the fundamentals of how he and his rhetoric work. The better way to deal with him is to flip the frame. Specifically, in the opening statement, Biden needed to call out very explicitly that Trump was going to lie constantly, and furthermore, point out that you can recognize his lies when he says "best, strongest, biggest, greatest." That little bit of verbal jiu jitsu would've ensured that it was no longer Biden calling out the lies, but the viewers' own ears, and by bringing them to conscious attention, draining the power of those statements. (Trump spews lies and nonsense that don't parse analytically, like that alphabet-soup closing statement, but he's really aiming his words at the subconscious mind.)
- Yes, they should have been fact checking Trump or better holding him to his answers - but to be fair maybe they should have been asking Biden to actually clarify if he's beating Medicare or getting COVID passed.
  This was a shit show.
  And it was such a shit show that Trump was a complete clown and getting away with it - not just because of the moderators, but because his opponent was as on point as a tree stump.
- I keep tryna tell people Zazlov wants CNN to be right wing
  
  Is that even a question? Of course he does.
- The moderators should be ashamed of themselves.
  Why? They accomplished what they were there to do.
- The LWV (League of Woman Voters) sponsored the United States presidential debates in 1976, 1980 and 1984.[75][76] On October 2, 1988, the LWV's 14 trustees voted unanimously to pull out of the debates, and on October 3 they issued a press release condemning the demands of the major candidates' campaigns. LWV President Nancy Neuman said that the debate format would "perpetrate a fraud on the American voter" and that the organization did not intend to "become an accessory to the hoodwinking of the American public."[77][78] All presidential debates since 1988 have been sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates,[79] a bipartisan organization run by the two major parties that some argue has established rules with the intent to exclude airing candidates associated with other parties.[80]
  Source
- Entertainment above all.
  The bigger half US doesn't care about facts.
  The only criterion that's needed is TO SPEAK LOUDLY.
- I told y’all joe should not have agreed to debates. Even if everything goes perfectly there is no upside.
  Those who argued it would help undecideds or somehow deflate trump - now do you see? Obvious dumpster fire is obvious. Congrats we have to scoop shit for a month now instead of making progress.
  Fucking DNC, desperate to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. AGAIN.

- The Onion from the top rope!
- God bless the onion.
- and that is exactly why he is bad at it. i don't see a problem 😂

WE ARE SO FUCKED

Fucking no fact checking is insanity.
This is literally constant stream of bullshit from Trump.
- Let's be honest, fact-checking doesn't matter to the American people watching this. The people who need to hear these facts have already been preprogrammed to believe CNN is biased and lying.
  
  It is about not forcing Biden to spend half of each response regarding to blatant lies like... Biden being pro Palestine.
  
  Trump demanded the debate, Biden should have demanded thorough fact checks with graphs and balances.
  I personally would not have stepped in any debate setting with a certified liar and scammer without any sort of fact checking, it's just foolishness.

I seriously doubt it but I really hope this is a wake-up call for Democrats. I remain convinced that Biden voluntarily stepping down and permitting a younger more charismatic figure in his place will be all that is needed to win, and I say this for a few reasons:
By the polling, age is a huge issue for a significant majority of Americans, with it clearly harming Biden more.
Any youthful semi-in-the-shadows candidate will be fresh for Americans, who will be excited for anything different.
The right-wing talking-points won't be pre-written.
By Biden & Democrats getting ahead of this and saying, "look we recognize the electorate's concerns and what's at stake and we know the people by large majorities don't want either President, so we're responding," they would get major points.
Call it a reverse-October surprise.
That being said, this is the earliest debate ever and Trump still needs to go through sentencing in July. People won't really remember this debate, but it certainly did not help Biden in any capacity.

What the fuck are the moderators even there for?
So much time is being taken with, "let me keep talking about the question from ten minutes ago and ignore what you just asked."
Sorry people with children. The question that focused on your issues were just skipped over.
- The debate was too late to hire a child to read the questions. Would have conflicted with bed time.
  
  It was too late for those old fucks as well.

I'm going to vote for policy, not a person. I don't agree with Trump on anything, so I'll vote for Biden.

I’m voting for Biden still bc Trump is a piece of shit, but Biden is coming off old and weak in this debate. Trump is lying his ass off about everything and not getting called out on any of it, and because he’s spouting so much of it so quickly rapid-fire, it’s obfuscating and confusing the issues.
- Yeah watched after his last rant the moderater said he had 37 seconds to answer the actual question asked and then allowed him to rant for another fucking minute and half. Then gave Biden 30 seconds to give a weak ass answer.
  Why is Biden acting like he doesn't know where he is? What the fuck.
- It’s a torrent of bs from trump. It comes out so fast that there’s no way to cover it all and still get facts out along with future policy statements.
  
  Gish gallop.

Jon Stewart was kind of brutal:
"Lots of people have 'resting 25th amendment face.'"

Trump is playing pigeon chess. Strutting around, telling lies, shitting all over everything, and will leave telling everyone he won.
No policy debate. Zero.
- "I have the biggest heart on this stage!"
  "I had the best environmental numbers!"
  "I did not have sex with a pornstar!"
  
  I lol’d at the part where he denied having sex with a porn star. Outrageous after just being convicted for misuse of campaign funds to bribe a porn star because he had sex with her.
- I don't like the Republican policy, but it is semi-coherent; isolation, xenophobia, anti-immigration, no abortions in red states, burn down the entire economy if it doesn't work for rural areas. The Democrats don't have a coherent policy; immigration yes but also no. Peace in Palestine, but also send weapons to Israel. Stop Russia at all costs, but send as little money and only expired weapons. This is the greatest economy of all time ever, even if you don't feel it and can't afford a house. Crime is down, too bad you don't feel safe.
  
  I agree on some points, the peace in Palestine while still sending weapons to Israel is just absurd. However the coherence of Republican policy is its reductionist simplicity and that it publicly really has nothing to do with running the country - while quietly working on their project 202x theofascist plans.
  But then that’s a problem with liberal policy, it’s constantly trying to juggle all the needs of the many different groups in the country vs Republican policy which says there’s only one policy: Theirs.

We live in a world where Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho is more electable than the candidates we have.
I figured Idiocracy was prescient, but it's coming true awfully fast.

He’s not answering Jan 6 directly.
And he’s blaming Pelosi? For Jan 6? Did I hear that right?
- Yep. And no fact check means it's true in Trumpland.
  
  Or just anyone who's not clued in. Trumpland will vote even if they know he's lying. It's the people that barely pay attention to politics that will hear a confident politician say something and assume it's true.
- and biden is not jumping on it. Fucking worthless old man just fucked us back to president trump.

This country is cooked with these two as the choices. Biden looked awful, and Trump didn't answer anything at all. Trump gets a pass on never having any substance to his replies. It is just jokes and insults.

I guess...
Biden fucked up. But I don't think this really changes anything.
Nobody is voting for Biden because we like him. We are voting for him because we give a shit about human rights and democracy. And democrats generally are good at actually listening to what is being said because... we want things.
republicans hate biden and are just happy they heard that brown people are killing and raping everyone. Nothing changed there
What Biden needed to do was win over the dumbass moderate/"undecided" voters. Which... is not talking points or policy. It is strongman bullshit. And that... is going to almost be entirely up to The Internet. Do we focus on Biden stuttering and having aphasia that he has had for decades? Or do we focus on trump blatantly lying and still talking about asking Nancy Pelosi to lead an insurrection for him?
John Oliver and the rest of the late night hosts are going to be working overtime to remind the country that having a deranged fascist in charge is bad. The Hasans of the world are going to keep talking about "Genocide Joe" because they are useful idiots, at best. But... I don't know beyond that.'
That said, I do think about the questionably accurate story that nixon (ugh) won his debate against kennedy (lesser ugh) among radio versus television listeners.
Biden mostly won in terms of text. He lost in terms of audio. But... people live on twitter and social media. How many people are going to be watching clips versus reading excerpts and tweets?

The quote of the night: “President Trump, the question was…”

"I had the best environmental numbers ever," whatever that means, is hilarious for Trump to say

If Biden is going to be replaced it has to be a huge name like AOC or Bernie. It’s too late to campaign anyone newer

This was the single hardest thing to watch in my entire life. RIP usa your fates sealed

Good god, I had to stop watching after the abortion question.
Trump actually has managed to keep his composure so far. Sure, he's spouting out lie upon lie that CNN is allowing to continue un-fact-checked. But he at least sounds like he knows what he's talking about, and is showing something resembling energy.
Biden looked like a nursing home patient that should've been guided out by his nurse. He sounds even worse. That freeze-up at the end with him stuttering and just blurting out a random "I beat Medicare" or whatever that was is going to fuel the entire Republican campaign for the next 5 months. That is literally the exact moment Biden lost this election, mark my words. The man is performing like he's sundowning.
If he gets better, God bless him. But I cannot see how anyone can have confidence in that man after that performance. He doesn't look like he'll make it another 4 months let alone another 4 years.
- Pains me to say I agree with you. Biden with that slack jawed confused look, looking down, off into nothing, barely moving. This is Nixon/Kennedy debate x 100.
- Why are you focusing on Biden? At least he's answering the questions. Trump can't answer the correct question.
  He's usually on the previous one. For one response Trump didn't answer it at all and ended early. The moderator was like "uhh you have 80 seconds left". That's dementia. Biden's hoarse throat is not.
  Edit: another one "uhh sir, the question was about addiction. You have 67 seconds left."
  
  And until he says something more memorable than answering the first question with a bunch of stuttering, ums, uhs, and then a random "I beat Medicare!", whatever that means, then none of that will matter to most people. That soundbyte was an absolute disaster that he may not recover from.
- This was the only part I saw because of someone posting a clip. Jesus Fucking Christ, the man is full fledged potato

All the post-debate commentary basically says everyone they're hearing from in the party and undecided voters were like... yeah, we are fucked.
They have even made the point that he's not technically the nominee until the convention twice so far. I.e., we need a new candidate.
And it CAN'T BE KAMALA.

I served in the military, this made me sad for our country. I'm angry at Trump and embarrassed for Biden.

The problem is that the debate doesn’t really change much… except for low information and undecided voters. They don’t know what Trump is spewing and whether it’s a lie or not. When he makes up wild claims that Biden is unanimously declared worst president in history, they don’t know that’s a lie, or that Trump is lying about capping the price of insulin or the existence of 9 month elective abortions, etc. Trump’s confident lies actually win over a lot of undecided people who don’t do any research into the topic.

Trump keeps dodging questions by going back to the previous topic. It gives him as much time to talk as he wants. And then he doesn't have to spend as much time on the issues where he is weaker.

What a great line to go to commercial on. "Something snapped when you lost". Probably one of Biden's best moments

The elimination of the First Past the Post voting system would allow voters to support third-party candidates without the fear of causing a spoiler effect. This change would promote greater competition in elections, improving the caliber of candidates available to all voters. Also, it is likely to boost voter turnout and increase political engagement.
Electoral reform has already been achieved at the state level; Alaska and Maine have successfully implemented changes to their electoral systems, demonstrating that broader reform is feasible.
However, Republicans have taken steps to preserve the First Past the Post voting system. For instance, Florida recently outlawed Ranked Choice voting. Despite this setback, there are numerous alternatives to First Past the Post, ensuring that bans like Florida’s do not obstruct progress toward electoral reform.
This raises the question: why do predominantly Democratic states continue to utilize First Past the Post voting? Why continueto use a voting system favored by Republicans? In states controlled by Democrats, there are no Republican obstacles preventing these reforms.
It is evident that Democrats recognize the shortcomings of First Past the Post voting. Mentioning third-party voting on social media often prompts numerous Democrats to caution against “wasting” votes that could inadvertently benefit Republicans. It is perplexing to acknowledge flaws in the voting system yet fail to take action to address them. Lecturing others about the drawbacks of First Past the Post voting while neglecting to pursue solutions is contradictory and counterproductive.
Here are some videos on the topic if you’d like to know more:
First Past The Post voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
Other electoral systems to choose from:
Alternative vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE
Ranked Choice voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2fRPRkWvY
Range Voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3GFG0sXIig
Single Transferable Vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI
STAR voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-mOeUXAkV0
Mixed Member Proportional representation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0I-sdoSXU

They're just letting Trump lie about shit on stage.
- Why is there no fact-checking on air? Why even have moderation if they do nothing to challenge the two?
  
  Republicans threw a shitfit and it got cancelled.
  
  CNN wants it's ratings cow back
  
  I like how they also promptly stopped cutting off candidates by muting mics. Several times both talked over.
- They always intended to.

I voted for Biden and I'll vote for him again to keep a fascist out of office, but it is quite clear that the best thing Democrats could do is to have Biden back out and put forth a younger charismatic candidate. Age and the excitement about someone fresh would be enough to sweep this. That's just a reflection of what polls are already telling us. The debate just started, but it's quite clear that the optics of a debate thus far are going to Trump.
- 100% agree. Imagine Buttigieg up there running circles around Trump.
  
  Buttigieg, Booker, Abrams, fuck even Warren despite her age would mop the floor with Trump.
- Wild that I got downvoted to hell like 9 months ago for suggesting such a thing
  
  Me too, my friend. Me too.

Brandon shit the bed. But I’d vote for his corpse over the traitor.
- His corpse would be surrounded by intelligent and decent people, all of which are more capable of governing than T**** and his fascist reality show contestants. It's unfortunate Biden didn't take his top secret brain drugs tonight, but it changes nothing for me.
  
  His corpse would be surrounded by intelligent and decent people
  Kamala Harris is neither of those things

That sucked, my dudes. u_u

Commercials, during the debate, how American.
- Well, we knew that going in. Biden needs to use the opportunity to drink some water.

God, Biden was just pathetic and old in this debate and got steamrolled by a coked up, orange fat ass old man.

Wow, I didn't see it as I was working. It was somehow worse than I thought even after reading all the threads. Biden should not be there. I will be voting for whomever the democrats nominate because the alternative is worse, but the US is so fucked.

Bidens closing statement wasn't strong... but nothing about his performance has been strong.

The gish gab is out of control. Trump didn't even answer the last question. These moderators suck.
- If there wasn’t a convicted Felon on the stage right now, the mishandling by the moderators would be the biggest criminality right now.

“The fact checkers will fix my performance,” says the guy running for president.
Underestimating Trump was the death of Hillary Clinton. This time it could be the death of free and fair elections.
You can always hide the hunt for a replacement as the hunt for VP.

So they're gonna replace Biden now right??

Lol...it took 3 minutes after the debate for ABC to essentially call for Biden to step down. Finally someone said the quiet thing out loud.
That might have been the worst debate performance in the history of US presidential debates. When Kennedy won might be the only other death swing in polls like we will see tomorrow.

Watching the PBS stream and they show the attack ad against Biden;
"Are you financially better off since he became president."
Is your family safer?
Is our country more secure?"
Yes to all three in my family's case.
Thanks to Democratic legislation I dodged nearly $35,000 in emergency medical expenses and instead had to only pay about $750. Thanks to the IRA legislation, I was able to invest in both solar and an energy-efficient A/C for my house for which I got 30% off through deductions that I otherwise wouldn't have obtained.
I definitely feel safer in this border state, my elections more secure, and I appreciate a leader who stands up to global tyrants.

Biden is hammering home a lot of important shit. I'd say he's warmed up by now.
Though him lying that Hamas is the only group that wants war between Israel and Palestine was a disgusting, vile lie, when it's been constantly reported that Netenyahu and those around him are rabidly in favor of continuing it

I can't believe his debate camp didn't work on Biden not doing that confused, slack-jawed stare all the time.
- That is the expected facial expression when sharing a stage with Trump.

I hate everything about it. I wish it wasn’t happening. That demented orange convicted felon rapist should be in prison, not promoted from every media orifice.
I disagree Joe is going to get anything from this. But, the die is cast so - baby needs a new pair of shoes!
- At the very least, it's not going to be fun for Trump. If they actually mute his ass it's going to drive him insane. I will enjoy that.

These gentlemen are debating each other with the confidence and energy of a 6th grade debate club. This is simultaneously the most hilarious and terrifying thing I've ever seen.

"We had H2O", what is he even talking about? It's scary to realise his cult just accepts anything he says.
And then a confused attack on Trump on climate change that was so softball and not to the point... oof... Biden, why?
- the best h2o. the best environmental people told him just before he jumped on the stage!

Jesus Joe!
JUST TELL HIM HE HAD THE BOARDER BILL KILLED!
- JUST TELL HIM HE HAD THE BOARDER BILL KILLED!
  And that Convicted Felon and Sex Offender Treason Trump said he is going to give unlimited green cards to foreigners to work American jobs because billionaires gave him money.
  He should have said both of those things every single time immigration was brought up.

Of course, Trump completely deflects on the climate change question.

Why do we only get 90 minutes. Why do they only get 1 minute to answer. Sit the down and have an actual discussion damnit. You're trying to run a country not win a talent show. I want hear how their brains work, not their mouths.

While Biden talks more sense than Trump (not a high bar), he looks like he’s gonna drop dead any minute, and his hoarse voice isn’t helping.

If you don’t try to understand what they are actually saying, Trump sounds like the better candidate just by confidence and speaking clearly. SMH
- Well, it's easy to speak strongly when you don't have to worry about what you say being in any way factual.

My god let the poor old man rest, this is senior abuse and torture at this point

Trump can’t lie fast enough.
This is awful without fact checking.
- I hope one of the tracked statistics is Trumps lies per minute speaking.

574 comments

WE ARE SO FUCKED