Millennials are exhausted by working more for less.
Letters: Readers respond to an article about quitting the rat race, with some saying their generation was handed an untenable position and others saying the struggle is nothing new
(water is wet and fire is hot).
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Not sure how this is millennial-specific. Everyone has been doing this for a long time. One of the few good things to come out of Covid was work from home being integrated into scheduling. Of course big business is trying to rob people of that again.
Sorry but for those of us not in industries where WFH is even an option, it ruined things for us.
I have to quit my job eventually and move to a completely different state because once WFH took off and everyone that could move out of the areas their jobs were in did so the housing market exploded.
I had just reached a point where I was financially healthy enough to consider buying a house and then pretty much immediately had the rug pulled out from under me.... Now between greedflation and everything else, the raises I had been fighting for are equal in purchasing power as my income was like 4 years ago...
I don't think WFH is completely to blame for that. A significant contributor to the explosion in housing prices was historically low mortgage rates (<2%) as part of the covid era stimulus plans. This triggered a wave of home buying, which in turn led to a lot of panic from people that were afraid they would be priced out of the market and fueled further home buying.
Pretty sure it was Blackrock, Vanguard, and all the shadow LLC’s from the big banks buying up homes as soon as they went on the market as well as rich pukes abusing first time home owner mechanics to buy AirBnB investment properties.
Not really normal folks buying home with low interest rates.
I'm sure large investment firms did buy a lot of homes, but to pretend no normal people took advantage of the interest rates is just ridiculous.
Homes at large went from being owned by normal people to financial institutions. Yep, some people might have got lucky, but society overall lost.
Case in point: There are eight houses on my block. Pre-COVID, one was a multi-unit rental and the rest were single family.
Post COVID? Now only my house and my next door neighbor's house, and the lady's place on the far corner are privately owned. All five of the others sold and are now either short term rentals (2) or AirBNB's (3).
...In my shitty cracked out corner of America. Where there's even this bastard who runs motorcycles in his driveway all the time (i.e. me). Who the fuck is going to want to travel to and rent an AirBNB here? Nobody, that's who. There ain't nothing here but bikes, mud, guns, dirt, and fentanyl. So they're basically full-time empty. Some asshole or asshole(s) with capital decided this would be a great "passive income" opportunity and spent big bucks to squeeze out any private buyers. My only solace is that they've got to be getting raked over the coals now, because there's no way they make enough in rentals to cover the mortgages, utilities, and taxes.
Yeah screw those people being able to be happy and move to an area that doesn't bend them over almost definitely worse than you. What assholes! They should have to stay in the downtown centers and pay $15 million to live in an old phone booth with a sink.
This has the same energy of people being pissed off with student loan forgiveness or something. "If I had to deal with it, so should you! I can't be happy so you can't either blah blah"
What? That isn't even remotely close to what I was expressing.....
They mentioned wfh being a good thing from covid and I mentioned how it affected other people using my own experience. Fuck me for wanting to buy a home in the same damn state that I work in, excuse me. Only their experience is valid apparently.
The point of course is that there shouldn't be entire towns that are on affordable. Expensive houses / condos in the city? Sure I guess. An entire city where nothing is Affordable to people working normal jobs there? No that shouldn't be a thing anywhere and it needs to be made impermissible. We need a lot of non-market housing
But how is that related to others working from home?
Yeah, OP doesn’t get how many, many things can cause house price rises and that you shouldn’t stop a good thing just because a bad thing takes advantage.
But I never said to stop it.
Too many people are taking my "there's 2 sides to this so called benefit" as "crab mentality."
I'm happy people got to be happy, but their happiness came at my expense.
We all made decisions as to where we wanted to work, people chose cities for high incomes, I hate cities, traffic, overpopulated areas, so I chose the opposite and work in a factory far from a city, but now everyone got to leave the cities and that caused a massive increase in prices pretty much immediately. Again, good for them, I was just pointing out to OP that it isn't all sunshine and rainbows, for some WFH coming from covid ruined their plans.
I either keep the position I worked for and never own a home now or I have to start over somewhere else.
😮💨 I understand too well. "Average" single family homes in my area were like $400,000, now it's $820,000. Rents for single bedroom apartments went from about $800-900 month to $1,600+ per month. I live in a town of about 65,000 in the Rockies, middle of nowhere, like minimum 5 hour drive to a city with more than a million people, yet somehow, people are still flocking here from all across the country.
Do you have fiber internet and legal weed?
Edit: lmao wrote free weed at first.
Yep, probably why people end up here instead of the more conservative shitholes.
We need to tax big corporations and use it to fund public housing at a rate of one unit per 1000 residents in every Big City to small town in this country, and that's the minimum amount some areas will need much more
Shift your blame to the housing market for jacking prices up for well over 40 years. Yes they used wfh as another excuse but seriously housing market has been fucked looooong before wfh
It's not "they," I've been watching my local market because I had been looking to buy.
One simple, extreme example: a piece of shit shed masquerading as a house sold for 65k in 2016 then in 2021 the asshat that bought it put it on the market for 190k
In what universe is that even a reasonable increase? It wasn't 40 years, it was a direct reaction to "supply and demand." Real estate agents were telling my friend who actually had the money to buy "if a house is on the market for more than 5 days there's something wrong with it."
That's not a normal situation affected by decades of increases.
I hate the housing market too but it’s been going bonkers way before covid and WFH.
Sure WFH added fuel to the fire, but that fire has been growing and would have grown without WFH.
Pretty sure that's what op meant about water being wet....
Yeah like. I’m sympathetic to this arguement, but anyone thinking the average American today works “harder” and more strenuously to the average American in like 1920 is off their gourd.
All this stuff is really hard to measure, and ultimately we just need a system where people can live decent lives and not be miserable. There’s a difference between working hard and having a happy & fruitful life out of it and working little while remaining miserable
Edit:
Only in Lemmy could you get downvoted for suggesting that maybe doing enjoyable productive work is an okay thing. Day by day I’m more convinced the average user here just wants to live in the space ship from Wall-E getting force fed milkshakes all day
Productivity has gone up, pay has remained flat or declined when adjusting for price increases. How is that not “working more for less?”
And your read on the average lemmy user is inane. Most of the people I’ve interacted with want to do meaningful work and be able to live without the constant threat of homelessness, starvation, or death from easily preventable causes.
If you do “enjoyable work” and get paid enough to have a personal life that is also fulfilling, bully for you, but the vast majority of people are fucking struggling.
This guy thinks productivity has gone up because he personally works harder than the massive amount of people working 16 hours a day since the day they turn 14 a hundred years ago and not because of technological innovations hahahahahahahah
Or maybe it has gone up because we have vastly more efficient machines and technology at our disposal.
Yeah man. That’s what “technological innovations” are.
the average American today works “harder” and more strenuously to the average American in like 1920 is off their gourd.
The point is that the average person's work produces more value, but that increase in value is all going to corporations. The value of wealth went up, the value of labour stagnated. That means the rich have more of the pie, and since money begets money, the poor get less and less.
Yeah that’s fine, and completely true. I think people on Lemmy sometimes just get confused by the stat and don’t realize like… how hard most every generation before them also had to work (at least before 1970 or so). Like, on average, much harder than today.
People see the whole productivity rise and people who are maybe not exactly lateral thinkers think that means the average employee literally works so much harder compared to the “comparatively easy” lives of before.
It just ends up creating really… strange dynamics
most every generation before them also had to work (at least before 1970 or so). Like, on average, much harder than today.
How do we know, though? Everyone will think they worked the hardest, suffered the greatest, deserve the most.
Just because I'm not working in a rock factory doesn't mean I don't also work hard to sustain any measure of a valuable life
Comparison is the thief of joy
Joy is an illusion. Comparison is reality.
That doesn't make any sense lol
It reads like some Jaden Smith level of insight
But you have a good one
I guess a more optimistic way to say it is "ignorance is bliss". I never liked that saying. Ignorance is not a good thing.
Most of the news subs on Lemmy are just cynical pity parties for first world problems. Idk what to make of people here. Wealthy educated countries with historically low unemployment and yet no one can seem to find a decent job.
Because unemployment is a bad metric. If you are working part-time at a pay rate that isn't enough to pay the rent, you're not unemployed but you're also not living well.
If you're not working any job because your skill set isn't in demand but you can't afford to learn new skills because you're not working, you're not considered unemployed. And you can't just get an "unskilled" job because your experience makes you overqualified and applying without a resume won't get you hired and even if you did get hired see the first point for why even bother.
Good thing the US underemployment rate, which includes part time workers, is also at near historic lows (7.3%). I’m not saying everything is honky dory, but this obsession with how hard our generation (millennials) has it, in denial of living in the wealthiest parts of the world at the most prosperous and peaceful times in human history, is pathetic.
Lmdao. It would be amazing if the wealth wasn’t being stolen, privatized, and insulated to 1% of the populous.
I will give you my two pennies on this.
I had to go back to college after the army. My BA degrees in business and criminal justice were worthless then, and still are worthless now. I got them to go through OCS. I was going to go into computer science, but got a C in C++, so went into mechanical engineering instead. Was jealous of all my coding friends, except now they are all laid off. Every single one of them.
These were the good jobs, the guys making 100-350k/yr for their programming knowledge. Now they have nothing, and no job prospects in their field. Companies are laying off workers in expensive areas and hiring unqualified people in much cheaper areas like Vietnam, China, and India to use ChatGPT to spit out code. MBA folks think they cracked the code and are out producing other firms who don’t use AI, but in reality the AI code is mostly shit. It looks good on KPIs, which are helping to fuel a massive bubble. It allows those who do nothing to act like they are more useful than those who do work.
Why don’t people work a good job like the one I have? Because not everyone can get a masters in engineering. The “good jobs” are disappearing.
I hope things get better for your friends. Tech is taking a hit right now.
I had trouble finding work after college, had to work some shit jobs and move around a lot, but I was never out of options, never at risk of going hungry or not sleeping in a bed. It takes a hell of a lot to go hungry or homeless in the US. There’s an insane amount of industry, wealth, and opportunity here.
Meanwhile, in my home country, there is 70% inflation in the past year. There is war everywhere on the borders (and conscription). There is no opportunity for young people. Inflation has destroyed most people’s ability to emigrate or get an American/European education. They’re just stuck there with a crumbling economy, a refugee crisis (about 10% of the population), an increasingly religious and oppressive government, and the constant threat of war.
It’s hard to see so many posts like these complaining about how hard everything is for people living in US, UK, Canada, France etc. from people with the most disposable income in the world, the highest carbon footprints, the biggest cars, the most meat consumption, good labor laws.
Yes, we should still strive to improve things. There are tons of problems in this system that result in conflict and inequality. But this kind of article is the epitome of first world problems from privileged people.
This whole site is filled with these cynical, self-pitying posts so we can all read them and think “yeah, everything is so unfair for me, everyone else had it so much easier” like everything is happening to us, and we have no control or agency in our own happiness and satisfaction. We bear no responsibility for our own situation. We live in the best part of the world in the best time of human history, yet we’re all miserable because everything is so terrible and hard.
In power grids (where I currently work) we have a very hard time finding field techs.
It pays around 90k your first year, 150k+/yr after depending on how many jobs you take. It’s tough work, but it’s not hard since everything is so heavy. Not a lot of manual lifting, but you are out in the elements.
All hotel and meals are paid out on sight. Hardly anyone wants the jobs. You don’t even need a trade school anymore, all training is on the job.
There are jobs out there.
Maybe a weird request but, would you mind posting a job listing as an example of the job you're describing? Doesn't have to be your specific company or anything.
It’s the same in biotech and pharma. We are basically always hiring skilled labor, even during layoffs. You can get a 6 week certificate that will land you a manufacturing job for $80k per year plus OT. No college needed. Many companies will even pay for it if you agree to a 6 month contract with them.
Are they willing to hire people who don't already have 10 years experience? Are they willing to train people who are fresh out of high school? If not then those companies can only blame themselves for not having workers. After the Great Recession companies got entitled because they could hire whoever they wanted with whatever experience and degrees they wanted for rock bottom prices and that entitlement never left.
You need zero experience.
Have to 21 due to state laws in high danger areas and nuclear power.
so if I applied I'd be accepted and get on-the-job training?
You still have to interview and pass a background/drug test. But yes, and you actually have to show up for work.
drug test
Well there's your problem. too many people like weed and by the tine you can pass a teat you've already found a diffrent job that doesn't judge you for what you do on the weekend with a body fluid analysis. Drop the drug test and applications will come. Everyone who is creepy invasive like that has hiring problems even the NSA
You say it takes a hell of a lot to go homeless but there's literally homeless people everywhere in this country. I literally can't ride my bike to the thrift store (can't afford a car) without passing a half dozen tents on the sidewalk, and then you get to the thrift store and it's so deeply picked over there's nothing worth buying. None of that is a sign that things are good. America is a great place if you're rich not if you're poor
The problem is that in this cktnext, the cost of living has gone up significantly. But there's no equivalent increase in pay, so we see shit like the gig economy being more and more common.
Just because unemployment is low doesn't mean the jobs are good comment to the contrary the jobs are shit and you often need more than one just to survive
Yeah it’s just kind of like.. I don’t know what to call it other than pathetic. Everyone here postures themselves as being these great advocates for workers rights but seemingly that’s all contingent on a revolution that does nothing but give them more money for less work under the assumption that yunno, people like laborers and nurses and all the people with jobs that actually require continuous will just get fucked
I’d prefer top mgmt be removed and their wages be dispersed accordingly and have employees run the companies boards with equal representation, not investors.
There are plenty of employee owned businesses. You should work for one, or, better yet, make one.
That’s fine enough, but you realize people are still going to have to do 8~ hours of work a day under such a system, correct?
You guys realise most work is getting replaced by tech and automation FAR faster than new jobs are being created right? There isnt enough jobs in the 1st world to go around, and its only getting worse. 8hours only exists because we need to feed ourselves at this point, NOT because theres 8 hours of work that needs to be done
Okay, that’s fine too. And I agree with you there. But the only solutions there are:
Neither of these are great solutions.
Obviously in some far off future we can hypothetically get to the point where so much work is automated that work becomes more (but never completely) optional, but until we get to that point there are absolutely 8+ hours of work to be ton in a ton of fields.
Bud, I'm IN construction, competition for decent jobs is tough here too, not as bad as other fields sure, bud theres still a boom and bust season going on for the easier to get jobs. Furthermore, the fields lacking workers are the ones not paying enough to live off of, so capitalism isnt filling those roles either
Yeah, but I bet you work 8 hours a day don’t you?
Just joshing. You have me there that constructions a bit of a tricky one just because it is so boom/bust and area dependent. I do some work with my local Habitat for Humanity and good lord we can’t find a single qualified contractor for some general purpose construction to save our hides. In other areas, very different.
The point being, obviously we’re driving towards a society where UBI is needed and in on the whole people can work a bit less - but when people on Lemmy seem to go “working is bullshit! I could be at work half as long and nothing would go bad!”, that’s sometimes frustrating to me. As I know that is deeply not the case for many fields. Same goes for people who simply cannot conceptualize taking pride in one’s work as a real thing and not just “capitalist propaganda.”
To put it in dork terms, there’s a very thin line between a utopia like Star Trek and one like Wall-E. I want the former… I think many people want the latter.
Ah, I think we might be on similar pages. I dont think we need to worry about the Wall-E typed though. Taking pride in ones work is a very human trait, I dont think allowing people who just want to be lazy slobs to do so will cause EVERYONE to become them though, there will always be those who want to help and grow their communities. Getting caught fighting those who want to be lazy lets the capitalists deprive us of solutions to our collapsing system like UBI though, and tbh, I bet a lot of those who initially want to be lazy, will get bored after a while and seek to find something that lets them feel more fulfilled (Also yes I work 8 hours a day, but I WISH I could work 4. 8 hours leaves me drained an incapable of doing anything else with my day, leaving me to just find ways to waste the rest of the hours until I can sleep, whereas with 4 hour days I'm able to actually go and get shit done afterwards)
Why? I wouldn’t have to require that.
Because - and this might shock you, civilization requires goods and services to be manufactured and performed.
I know it’s really easy to picture “everyone can just work a little less!” But remember… that’s not just you in your office tower. That’s nurses, and construction workers, and HVAC technicians, and builders, and farmers.
So you can have your vision where no one has to work 8 hours a day… but that also means housing will be even more scarce and expensive and the wait time for your mom to get into the ER goes from one hour to five…
It’s really really easy to say “we can just seize the means of production and everyone in the country will work less” when you don’t work in a vital industry. Things get a lot more complicated once you do.
I work in a vital industry again you are being narrow minded as fuck trying to pigeon hole some stupid fucking point that doesn’t relate to our commentary. We as a company could simply hire more employees to spread the work so we all have more free time. You are forgetting that we can react to your perceived and ludicrous negatives that exist in your hypotheticals.
