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11mo ago

‘They lied’: plastics producers deceived public about recycling, report reveals

www.theguardian.com ‘They lied’: plastics producers deceived public about recycling, report reveals

Companies knew for decades recycling was not viable but promoted it regardless, Center for Climate Integrity study finds

Plastic producers have known for more than 30 years that recycling is not an economically or technically feasible plastic waste management solution. That has not stopped them from promoting it, according to a new report.

“The companies lied,” said Richard Wiles, president of fossil-fuel accountability advocacy group the Center for Climate Integrity (CCI), which published the report. “It’s time to hold them accountable for the damage they’ve caused.”

219 comments

I worked in packaging for 20 years. A bottle CAN be recycled indefinitely… if it’s made from GLASS.
Source: I worked 8 years for a glass bottle manufacturer.
- The real key is local bottling where local production isn't possible.
  Ship vats of Coca-Cola syrup to the 200 largest cities (more or less) in North America and create local bottle circulation.
  Spice it up with local bottle designs or recycling marks. Now you've got novelty sales, collector sales, eco-conscious sales, 'support local' sales...
  
  I am so confused. Isn't that the coca cola model? Each area has some coca cola bottling franchise that services them, and they already have regional differences.
  
  Or aluminum
- Too bad most of those bottles got replaced with plastic completely disregarding the impact of the environment they are causing. Not to mention that glass also comes from abundant resources like sand and we don't risk running out of it anytime soon, the same can't be said for oil.
  
  Not to mention that glass also comes from abundant resources like sand and we don't risk running out of it anytime soon
  Is now a bad time to point out that not only is sand not as an abundant resource as you think, but we're actually running short of it?
  https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a39880899/earth-is-running-out-of-sand/
  https://theweek.com/news/science-health/960931/why-is-the-world-running-out-of-sand
  
  Those glass bottles used to cause an awful lot of horrific deaths and injuries during handling, so from a safety perspective, there is no desire at all to return to glass. Glass bottles are also much heavier than plastic, so have a commensurate environmental impact due to the increased consumption of fossil fuels for shipping as well. Fixing the problems with plastic was a big PR win and saved companies millions in law suits and shipping costs. They won't go back to glass. The answer is probably re-usable plastic containers purchased by the customer and refilled at stores for the same price (or more) than when sold in disposable plastic packaging. Another PR win in the offing, no doubt.
  
  IIRC, plastic is byproduct of oil being refined into gas. As long as there are gas vehicles and engines in general, we ain't gonna get rid of plastic. It's so cheap because is has to be produced.
- Flexible packaging for 10 years here .. we recycle and reuse 100% of the scrap we make in house, even our nylon, PP, and EVOH.
- Or aluminum cans! Those are very recyclable as well.
  
  Better but not 100%. Glass is the only item 100%. Paper is next.

The sad thing is that we don't even need 99.9% of this plastic in the first place. People were making disposable packaging, clothing, building materials etc out of non-toxic and biodegradable materials for most of history and it was fine. I seriously detest plastic and wish it was banned/not made unless for exceptional uses e.g replacement heart valves.
- It feels inevitable that our descendents will eventually say "holy shit, you stored your FOOD in it?!", after we discover we've been literally killing ourselves the whole time
  
  This is our version of ancient Romans using lead based makeup
  
  Descendants? On this planet?
  
  Yup. Plastic contamination is absolutely insane already. A recent study found that each person ingests about a credit card sized amount of plastic every day. And it's been fucking with our metabolism and fertility, and causing other long-term health issues for decades now.
  We rightly talk about the long-term impact of tobacco and lead on the human body. But somehow the impact of plastic (and, unrelated, sugar) has been flying under the cultural radar for many years. Good to see it's finally getting the long-overdue attention it deserves.
  Last week I decided to count every time my body touched plastic or ingested something that had touched plastic. I gave up within a couple of hours because my internal monologue was constantly saying "touching plastic!"
  That shit is everywhere. Sometimes it makes sense (e.g. technology). But it's also in our clothing, stores our food, etc.
  I wish there were better options for storing food and drinks in containers made from materials other than plastic (like, for example tin cans - but even they are often lined with some plastic). But there aren't. At least not ones that wouldn't cause the economy to get hit hard You go to a grocery store and almost everything is housed or carried in plastic to some degree. Would be nice to have a database that promoted products that don't use plastic.
  I would say that we as a society need to decide which path to take: the hard path of getting rid of most plastic products and packaging from our lives, or continuing down the current path. But realistically, it's outside our control, at least for right now.
  
  Mmm microplastics. Delicious.
- Really. For the vast majority of packaging, what the fuck was wrong with just using cardboard? Even if 99.99999999% of the stuff winds up in a landfill, at least cardboard is theoretically renewable and will biodegrade in less than a thousand lifetimes.
  
  Cardboard and paper bags went out of style because of the "save the rainforest" narrative. Even though most paper products are made from trees specifically grown to be harvested for their wood.
  That's why we started using plastic bags at grocery stores, remember?
  
  Pretty much nothing biodegrades in a landfill though.
- I want a 100% tariff on virgin plastics, and a shift of corn and oil subsidies to hemp.

I think about this sort of thing from time to time, and every time I come to the same conclusion that manufacturers of bulk goods need to take more responsibility for the entire life cycle of their products. They're getting a free ride with municipalities stuck footing the bill for recycling plastics, and have zero incentive to solve the problem.
Let's say the city sent all the recyclables to some regional warehousing facility where they would get sorted by barcode according to manufacturer. Then the companies would be charged for storage and would have strong incentive to come collect their property before it really starts to pile up.
Initially, they will no doubt gripe about it, but in the long term, it may be a win-win in that if say Coca-Cola realizes it can get all its bottles back, it could switch to a more reusable design that could reduce bottling costs?
- But that’s a planned economy and socialism /s
  
  Yeah. Every time I try to envision some small change that would bring us closer to a utopian ideal, it invariably smacks of socialism. I just can't help myself! lol
- I mean, in a lot of places outside the US, there are small pallets of bottles that, when emptied, get sent back to the bottler to be refilled.
  
  I do remember a time before widespread recycling when you'd pay a small deposit on a drink and get it back when you returned the bottle to the store. Where I live, alcohol sales still follow that model to some extent.
  That was the old school approach and I have no problem with it. But it largely disappeared as municipalities started up recycling programs. I guess it was reasoned that when you do it at a city-wide scale, you cast a broader net and divert more material from the landfill. But as this article mentions, recycling has proven to be a sketchy prospect. It loses money for most cities with exception to aluminum cans where the metal still has some resale value.
  One way or another, it would be better if we can get back to more of a reuse approach as opposed to breaking everything down to recycle the raw materials. That just doesn't seem to be working.
- A better system is to require all grocery/food/packaging, customer facing retailers to record all sales and from which suppliers those products were bought.
  Then charge the retailer the average cost of 'recycling' or 'to the planet', or another measure of cost.
  This will increase costs on all products, but by design more on the costs of hard to recycle goods and packaging.
  Charge retailers that daily, watch end to end, from supplier/producer to consumer, behaviour change and iterate accordingly.
  Start off with an industry sector though, like grocery stores, most are bricks and mortar, and have high brand acknowledgement so can't easily escape regulation. The key is to charge the location of sale, not the companies 'HQ'.
  
  It would be relatively easy to implement, as retailers already collect this info for inventory management.
  But I fear it wouldn't go far enough? What we really need to do is close the loop so that product packaging winds up back at the manufacturer for reuse. And everyone needs to be at the table to discuss how that's going to work, as it is a significant technological and logistical challenge for both the private and public sectors.

And like, when I bring it up people call me crazy.
- as with anything that challenges the crappy status quo.
  so frustrating
  
  Wouldn't be so bad if people would just stop reminding us how shitty they are. We get it, you're here to nut and die angry, good job.

Penn and Teller did an episode of Bullshit on this in 2004. They also concluded that paper and glass recycling were similarly worse that throwing it away. Glass because the energy required to grind, melt, and separate the raw material, and paper because the process uses toxic solvents and produces just as much waste as throwing it away.
Also don't be fooled by people claiming plastics can be burnt cleanly. That's another myth that plastic producers push to prevent people reducing their plastic use.
- I worked for a glass bottle manufacturer and using cullet (broken glass) lowers the melting point and saves a significant percentage of costs to heat the furnace. Before the lightweight single use bottles became the standard in the 80-90’s, bottles were thicker and heavier, made to be returned, washed and reused.
- Yep. I've told people about that Bullshit episode so many times. I've even shown it to people. They don't believe anyone would lie about it and since the episode is so old new tech has to have fixed the issue!
- Maybe it's energy intensive, but energy can be clean, especially now that renewable energy is starting to become the cheapest form of energy. You could even make up for the variance by only processing when there is an energy surplus.
- If we use more nuclear to create electricity recycling becomes cleaner and cleaner
- I just buy glass bottles and then re-use them for kambutcha
- Also don’t be fooled by people claiming plastics can be burnt cleanly.
  Not seeing why not. I did help work on a place that did that. Could you explain what you mean?
  
  best case, you're releasing extra CO2 into the atmosphere that would have at least been locked up in the landfills/seas of microplastics. worst case, you're also releasing unstudied and most likely carcinogenic incomplete combustion products.
- I think the takeaway is: everything is hopeless so our species should either go back to hunting and gathering or go extinct.
  
  Nah, hunting and gathering is how we got ourselves into this mess. It's a mentality that leads to fascism and hoarding of resources.
  We need to try some things we haven't before, like meeting the basic needs of every human, and being OK with being OK. Nobody needs a billionaire, and anyone seeking to consolidate that much wealth and power should be stripped of their lands and titles.

What is plastic made of? Oh yeah. Oil.
- Throwing it away puts the oil back in the ground.
  
  Please tell me this is sarcasm...

it's not really difficult to recycle plastics (depolymerisation) - but it's not cheap to do it at scale and there really isnt any way to profit from it, so it's just not done.
- This is the real fucking answer right here. Follow the fucking dollar bills.
- The profit is for society as a whole for creating less waste, but of course, that doesn't translate to money earned today. It will, on the other hand, translate to money lost (and more) in the future.
- And the energy used and pollution created in depolymerising and remanufacturing plastic is higher than the cost of just making new plastic. So there's not really much environmental motivation to do so, or it's a mixed bag at best. Less landfill, more pollution.
  
  The invisible hand of the market ladies and gens.
- A 100% tariff on virgin plastics would be amazing.

Why couldn't we switch back to glass as our primary container material? Wasn't that always fully recyclable?
- Apparently we're running out of sand. That's going to make the transition to glass harder. I'm not saying I don't agree because I would definitely prefer glass than plastic.
  
  For people that don’t want to read/don’t already know
  It’s the types of sand, desert sand is useless
- Good luck shipping stuff in glass packaging. Very heavy, extremely fragile, big, expensive. Glass is only worth it on reusable stuff. We need to find a good material for "throwaway" stuff. Eco plastic made from stuff like bamboo are great starting points. They feel like plastic even mcdonalds is using this material for their throwaway spoons. And it can't be that expensive or they wouldnt be using it for free spoons
  
  PLA is made from beet juice and degrades in a few weeks I've recently learned

This isn't an excuse to not recycle. The problem is not the very idea of recycling, but that things aren't made with it in mind. Everything should be designed for reuse, repair and recycling.
- Always start with reduce.
  
  If reduce makes harder to reuse, repair or recycle, then reduce could be a false economy.

We have known that less than 2% of plastic has been recycled for years. This isn't new news.
- I remember them talking about how little actually gets recycled in the late 90s. My guess is everybody assumed things had gotten better.
  We don't even have the capacity to recycle paper products appropriately.
  
  We don’t even have the capacity to recycle paper products appropriately.
  You burn them or put them in a landfill where they decompose, which turns them into CO2, then elsewhere you grow a tree, which turns it back into wood, to turn into pulp, etc. Paper recycling is pretty much always done. Nobody hermetically seals their paper so it doesn't even decompose.
- The bar is so low that that's almost not tautological.
- Not to excuse the inefficiency, but it's still better than not recycling at all. I'm curious to know why recycling hasn't been effective. One of my guesses is that the general public probably don't care at all to segregate. I mean, how many times have we seen people throw compostable stuff into the recycling bin and vice versa? And not to mention we treat every recyclables as if they're all the same and put them into one bin. Plastics could not be recycled with paper or cardboard! That being said, countries have different system so there is mismatch with recycling programs across the world. Where I live, we treat every recyclables the same, but in Portugal they properly segregate paper, cans and plastics into separate bins. I think the different systems only makes recycling overall inefficient.

TerraCycle dumping "recycling" items in poor countries with inadequate regulations/enforcement (article in French). Moreover, a insightful documentary available on CBC The Recycling Myth regarding all the recycling fraud many multinational companies engages in.
It is not surprising to see environmental fraud happening so overtly under our nose or in plain sight in front of our eyes when there is little to no repercussions for doing so (legal or otherwise). I would even go as far as to suggest it is currently financially extremely profitable for corporation (and people) to lie about all the greewashing they carry out.
Youtube: The Recycling Myth
- Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
  The Recycling Myth
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
  
  Good bot?

Figure out which ones lied. Then figure out the estimated cost of actually recovering and recycling plastics that weren't recycled. Then take that number, add 20% for "processing fees" and charge it to the companies, split up by their market caps.
Those companies will then go bankrupt and with the money they tried to pay Uncle Sam, said Uncle can buyout the remainder of the companies that are actually doing something worthwhile and operate them as a public trust.
- Oh, we know. NPR had a report a few years where they interviewed someone that helped spread the lies. But this country will never hold corporations accountable.
  The ridiculous thing is they are doubling down on the lie, insisting that this time they will figure out a way to recycle plastic, so just keep buying it.
- This is an application of ai that I don't think people have caught onto yet.. Doing the calculation. Everyone and their descendents who got rich screwing the environment and others will pay reparations and the few people who can stop the financial computer network from carrying it out won't since everyone will want to find out what happens. Ai is capable of orchestrating this reckoning.
  
  Can AI cite their sources and calculations? For something like this the companies and especially the people will demand hard data proving culpability. I didn't think AI could do analysis like that.

Haven't we always known this? I remember some CBC News station out trackers on recycling and they watched pretty well all of it wind up in land fills and China.
- a lot of people still don't know this.
  i live in a small country in Asia and they love garbage here. you get a plastic cup and a plastic bag that has another plastic bag with a plastic ring so you can put it on your bike, and then you throw it in the street when you're done. they have sex with garbage. they eat garbage and then they puke the garbage up and then they eat it again and then they fuck it. they put garbage directly into the sewer drains. it's not just something that dick head kids are doing, it's something that everyone is doing because it's normal. they have no idea.
  
  uhhhh, what is this comment?

I really want the packaging industry to fuck all the way off with the use of nonbiodegradable materials. We need a 100% tariff on virgin plastics for the health and safety of everyone

Yet another instance of companies pushing the responsibility and onus onto private citizens. We pay for all the recycling infrastructure via taxes and waste fees. Yet more money thrown down the memory hole of greenwashing.

Can't we just force heavy taxation for the amount of plastics in products? That would force producers to look at alternatives to plastic for packaging.
I am always in shock when I buy some product and it has layers and layers of thick plastic to give the impression of some premium product. And sometimes I don't even have an alternative product to buy to avoid it since I only have 2 supermarkets in my area.
- The difficult thing with this type of tax is that products will become more expensive. In most cases, manufacturers choose plastic because it is the cheapest option. If plastic becomes more expensive they may choose an alternative, but this will still result in a price increase.
  This type of policy also tends to be regressive, i.e. it hurts people with lower income much more than wealthier people. This makes it unpopular.

I don't think it's so much that anyone lied about anything, it's that people have ignored two really huge contributing factors to the entire recycling cycle. Remember the three R's?
Reduce consumption. Reuse things that aren't damaged. Recycle when it becomes unusable.
Plastic containers don't need to be melted down and remade into anything; they can be cleaned and reused. But we just throw them away, or send them to be recycled immediately, and still consume more; completely ignoring the first two R's.
All these containers could be, and maybe should be, going back to the manufacturer they came from to be washed and reused. And we consumers could try and consume less things that come in such packaging or containers since that's the only way they will make fewer things in them, though that's easier said than done.
- Plastic, which is made from oil and gas, is notoriously difficult to recycle. Doing so requires meticulous sorting, since most of the thousands of chemically distinct varieties of plastic cannot be recycled together. That renders an already pricey process even more expensive. Another challenge: the material degrades each time it is reused, meaning it can generally only be reused once or twice.
  The industry has known for decades about these existential challenges, but obscured that information in its marketing campaigns, the report shows.
  Nope, they just lied. It wasn't just that people weren't re-using, people ARE reusing plastic products. But industry lied about the viability and cost to recycle the material.
  At a 1956 industry conference, the Society of the Plastics Industry, a trade group, told producers to focus on “low cost, big volume” and “expendability” and to aim for materials to end up “in the garbage wagon”.
  Then they pushed non-reusability.
  An internal 1986 report from the trade association the Vinyl Institute noted that “recycling cannot be considered a permanent solid waste solution [to plastics], as it merely prolongs the time until an item is disposed of”.
  Despite this knowledge, the Society of the Plastics Industry established the Plastics Recycling Foundation in 1984, bringing together petrochemical companies and bottlers, and launched a campaign focused on the sector’s commitment to recycling.
  They've always known recycling to be a short term solution but hid that to get around the inevitable legislation against plastics.
  
  Problem is that reducing on an individual level is difficult to impossible because I don't control how things are given to me, i.e. takeout or how produce is packaged.
- Well that's exactly the lie they sold. Reduce? Reuse? Absolutely. No question.
  Recycle? If it makes sense. Should you recycle magazines? Sure, I'm sure it's possible... But that glossy coating means you'd have to put it through a bunch of rounds of chemical baths or something to separate that plastic crap off. Same with cardboard - if it's glossy, it's probably not going to turn back into wood pulp, and if it's oily it'd also ruin the batch (after a certain amount) so no pizza boxes either.
  It's like that for just about anything you want to recycle - you have to look at the cost. And I mean full cost - the energy cost, fossil fuel used to produce required chemicals, the river those chemicals end up eventually, the environmental opportunity cost of bothering with it vs creating it fresh, and finally the man hour and infrastructure costs
  Even if we publicly funded it, it's still an externality to the producer.
  And that's the lie. It's like bailing out a cruise ship with a drinking cup... Theoretically it seems like "hey, if we can just move faster and we all do it, it could work!" But the numbers won't work. You can't scoop water up infinitely fast, and the geometry is going to limit how many people can increase the speed of bailing out water.
  The only way this works is by plugging the holes or building enormous systems to offset the water coming in.
  Reduce, reuse, recycle is a lie because it was never possible. Not for plastics - paper works pretty well, glass can work (but it's a lot of energy if you don't reuse it), metals work if the price is right.
  But plastic barely works to create an inferior product (where only a portion of the material is recycled - you always have to add new plastic, sometimes only a few percent, sometimes more than half). You also have to sort it, ship it, wash the crap out of it, and deal with all the micro plastic-infused solvents. Because plastic sheds from heat, cold, UV light, mechanical pressure, and looking at it funny - every step of the process, you're dusting the surroundings in micro plastics. Even rainwater is full of micro plastics. And generally, it all ends up washed into the nearest body of water and the soil
  And what's worse, is everything is coated in plastic if not made of it originally.
  The only answer is to make companies stop wrapping everything in plastic... Yeah, it's super convenient and cheap, but we could figure out better options.
  People are so worried about the AI alignment problem, but the corporate alignment problem is a much bigger threat - we have to make them want it, because the campaign to "reduce, reuse, recycle" bought them 40 years of complacency
  
  People are so worried about the AI alignment problem, but the corporate alignment problem is a much bigger threat
  🤯
- Plastic containers don’t need to be melted down and remade into anything; they can be cleaned and reused. But we just throw them away, or send them to be recycled immediately, and still consume more; completely ignoring the first two R’s.
  Except a plastic bottle start leaking cancerous shit after a week or so iirc
  https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/08/health/bottled-water-nanoplastics-study-wellness/index.html
- I'm going to be pedantic, but there is one R missing, the one with the most impact : Refuse.
  So it's Refuse, Reduce, Reuse, Recycle
  If you can, buy products that don't have plastic in them at all. This is the biggest impact you can have as an individual.
  
  That's just reduce

Yup, Climate Town did a great video on it
- Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
  great video
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
- I was going to link this if nobody else did. Glad to see it was already posted. It's a great video

We are not responsible beings when money can be made. It repeats itself over and over again. We cheat the systems we make ourselves, but we're too dumb, greedy and selfish to think about consequences. We basically don't give s shit about the planet and life, someone else can take care of that down the line, right?
- maybe we can evolve past this selfishness.

And nothing happened…
- And nothing happened…
  Have you called your house representative to speak with them about this?
  
  Lol

John Oliver had a good bit on this too...
Obviously NSFW for anyone unfamiliar with John Oliver:
https://youtu.be/Fiu9GSOmt8E
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  https://piped.video/Fiu9GSOmt8E
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

This is the best summary I could come up with:
Industry insiders over the past several decades have variously referred to plastic recycling as “uneconomical”, said it “cannot be considered a permanent solid waste solution”, and said it “cannot go on indefinitely”, the revelations show.
The authors say the evidence demonstrates that oil and petrochemical companies, as well as their trade associations, may have broken laws designed to protect the public from misleading marketing and pollution.
An internal 1986 report from the trade association the Vinyl Institute noted that “recycling cannot be considered a permanent solid waste solution [to plastics], as it merely prolongs the time until an item is disposed of”.
Two years ago, California’s attorney general, Rob Bonta, publicly launched an investigation into fossil fuel and petrochemical producers “for their role in causing and exacerbating the global plastics pollution crisis”.
A toxic train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, last February also catalyzed a movement demanding a ban on vinyl chloride, a carcinogen used to make plastic.
In 2023, New York state also filed a lawsuit against PepsiCo, saying its single-use plastics violate public nuisance laws, and that the company misled consumers about the effectiveness of recycling.
The original article contains 1,225 words, the summary contains 188 words. Saved 85%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

This is going straight to my MP (UK) today, with an angry letter! Please do the same, wherever you are, that's the only power we have but it's quite potent if enough of us raise the point.

Everytime I buy something from a local shop or a western brand, it comes packaged with minimal plastic, and a lot of well thought out materials. Even if they use plastic, its always a very thin plastic and very "soft". Can't describe. But when I buy ANYTHING from aliexpress you can tell it came from china just by looking at the packaging. It has SO MANY LAYERS of plastic, and very hard and thick plastic. If you buy for example a single keychain comes with 20x the weight of it in plastic. They smell so much to plastic chemicals too, something that "western plastic" doesn't smell like. Every time I have to drink from a paper straw I remind myself that a 10x10cm sticker I bought came with 5kg of plastic and still arrived damaged from shipping.
We don't need to reduce even more. We need to somehow force china to reduce it. I am againt taxes for everything, but maybe tax the amount/weight of plastic that comes on stuff you get from china. And find a way to tax the sender, not the buyer. Maybe that will make chinese companies to actually think about reducing they 50 tons of useless plastic waste they make each second.
- I've noticed that Japanese candy often has a ton of packaging. There'll be a box of small mints and you open it to find each one individually wrapped.
- "Hurr durr, China's the problem, not my shit consumerism"
  Fuck off with the astroturfing, corporate bootlicker.

people will start hypothesizing every type of plastic substitute imaginable at the cost of moving the entire Sahara desert to the Pacific Ocean and talking about "Western packaging" vs "Chinese packaging". my loves, we live in a system that leads us to consume continuously and more and more, what do you think about stopping buying and producing what is not needed?
- You're not necessarily wrong, but also 90% of food is packaged in plastic. Cheap food especially, which is all that a lot of people can afford.
  
  you're right about that. I absolutely do not want to make a classist speech in which I think it is right to pour on those who cannot afford or do not have access for any reason to "unprocessed" food or products from a circular market. fuck the rich people with SUVs who have breakfast with fresh fruit, yoga and then a walk in the park. I don't have time for this literally because of them.
  However, I come from Italy and the local products from the markets are cheaper and without packaging, produce less traffic and pay farmers more (and directly) as you eliminate the supermarket intermediaries. similar story for used products like clothes (vinted.com has been used here for a while) between private individuals obviously you use packaging to transport things but at least you are not producing something new that is manufactured by a country in an emerging economy with absurd working hours work and starvation wages (while here there is no longer local-national production).
  I think that deindustrialization was also possible collaterally to a cultural discourse in which well-being produces an increasingly greater desire to consume (but it doesn't necessarily have to be this way). and obviously I'm on lemmy so I'm not a techno-luddite so even on the technological side I believe in software and hardware, repairable, open source, community driven etc... but I certainly don't blame myself or other people for living in this system.
  we just hope to fix things little by little, also through discussions like this
- God forbid! Don't you dare say that! We need everything, but especially what we haven't bought yet and ridiculously overpriced branded shit! /s

No fucking shit

The thing is, chemists knew it. Nobody wanted to hear it. There are only three things worth recycling: Aluminum, glass, and electronics.
- That's extremely reductionist and inaccurate. Most metals can be recycled easily, not only aluminium.
  
  Aluminium is typically used as is though, while many other metals are used as alloys. I suspect that it makes things much easier when you don't have to worry about composition.
  Note that I don't really know anything much about metals or recycling, so I might be completely wrong.
- Glass is marginal at best for recycling. It's good for reuse. Cardboard is almost as good as aluminum for recycling

There's still thousands if not millions of products out there marketed as microwave safe plastic. There's no such thing. Get this toxic shit out of contact with your food. Feel free to mark my words for later when the science finally catches up and shows that it's a major carcinogen.
- Do you have more information about this because I'd like to know more, I microwave a lot of stuff in plastic containers.
  
  Here's one for starters: https://www.wired.com/story/for-the-love-of-god-stop-microwaving-plastic/

Well, as a american- everywhere I've ever worked has had a recycling bin but it's always treated as another trash can. Just something that depresses the absolute fuck out of me.
- If it makes it feel any better, even if it were used properly it wouldn't get recycled
- The whole point of the article is that, in general, it WAS just another trash can.

Haha okay, classic America and the "It cant be done" attitude. Keep licking the boots of your corporate overlords. If only there were any countries that just recycle everything anyway, right?
- I believe you're confusing recycling with what your local recycling program will accept. It's convenient if they accept all plastic "recycling numbers" but many of those numbers are aspirational, with no known way of actually recycling that type of plastic. Manufacturers knew this, but promised that the technology to do so would be forthcoming. It has not been forthcoming, and current and future generations will suffer for it.
  But even when plastic is recyclable, it's still shit, and we should be trying to minimise its use in everyday consumer products.

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