What's your solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict?
What's your solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict?
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Demand that the Israeli government end all military operations now underway and participate in an effort to reconstruct their society as a pluralistic, inclusive democracy. When they don’t comply, end all US financial aid. Then, if they don’t comply, sanction them. Then, if they don’t comply, blockade them. Then, if they don’t comply, assemble and international coalition and invade them. Depose the current leadership, arrest them and try them at the ICC. Establish an interim government that is designed to reconstruct their society as a pluralistic, inclusive democracy. Set milestones that gradually return local control as they achieve and demonstrate stable, responsible, and moral civic character.
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Maybe like an ice cream party or something?
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Because smarter people than me have tried but did not quite put the effort in. Therefore I, a random self proclaimed expert on the Internet, will solve it taking into account what the people living there want, all the foregin interests and of course reality and the fact that people tend to hate and blame anyone different than them as soon as anything goes even slightly wrong. This will all be summarised in an easily understood text that is two paragraphs long.
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I don't have a serious idea, so let me tell you about my flights of fancy.
I zap the current Israeli administration's family members with a de-aging ray to turn them back into babies. Then I travel back in time ten years and adopt them into Gaza families. Then I let them know what I did.
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My serious solution is: I got none, more intelligent people have tried, and people who come up to solutions over there, tend to get killed.
The silly solution: give the whole place to San Marino, which will managed to upset everyone
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There is the Saif al-Islam Gaddafi Isratin proposal:
The Gaddafi Isratin proposal intended to permanently resolve the Israeli–Palestinian conflict through a secular, federalist, republican one-state solution, which was first articulated by Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, the son of Muammar Gaddafi of Libya, at the Chatham House in London and later adopted by Muammar Gaddafi himself.
Similar to the Binational State Solution advocated by the Palestinian leadership and some others prior to the Nakba.
This ongoing Settler Colonialism annexing the West Bank continues to make a Two State Solution less possible, it has already divided the West Bank into hundreds of isolated enclaves. This Apartheid State needs to end as a binational state for all Palestinians and Israelis.
Here are resources by Historians about a One-State Solution. In many ways, it's already a One-State, an Apartheid State, this change would be the emancipation of Palestinians to bring forth a One-State with equal rights.
The settlements represent land-grabbing, and land-grabbing and peace-making don’t go together, it is one or the other. By its actions, if not always in its rhetoric, Israel has opted for land-grabbing and as we speak Israel is expanding settlements. So, Israel has been systematically destroying the basis for a viable Palestinian state and this is the declared objective of the Likud and Netanyahu who used to pretend to accept a two-state solution. In the lead up to the last election, he said there will be no Palestinian state on his watch. The expansion of settlements and the wall mean that there cannot be a viable Palestinian state with territorial contiguity. The most that the Palestinians can hope for is Bantustans, a series of enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military bases.
- Avi Shlaim
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
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israel wants an iron dome. We should build a huge iron dome to go over israel and it should be thick enough to keep god out.
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and the israelis in.
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Judging through the lens of history? A common enemy, and time. If there was another workable solution to the larger problem, they would have found it by now, as many people considerable smarter than me have tried.
No outside factor can build a durable peace, unless that peace is desired from within. Strong-arm tactics from the outside lead to cease fires, not peace. The lid goes back to the pot, but the fire is still there.
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In 67 the west could have isolated israel and forced them to return the land minus israel proper to palestinians
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Silly answer not serious but.
That entire area of the world is obviously cursed and doomed to eternal conflict. Therefore we should just make it a wildlife preserve so that the only people fighting over it are animals.
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Give them something other than each other to hate. Nothing brings people together like mutual hatred.
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Palestinians get their land back, and they get to decide the details. Simple as that.
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Sooo genocide, but now going the other way?
If Jews committing a genocide doesn't clue you in that anyone is capable of it, I don't know what will. That includes Palestinians, who are understandably pissed right now.
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giving people their stuff back thats been stolen from them is now genocide?
So if I go make an illegal "settlement" in your back yard and you want to get me out, and I say "nope, I'm not moving, you'll have to kill me" then telling me to leave means you are committing genocide against me?
Thats a complete disavowal of all property law and basic human rights, isnt it? Why do you get to do this?
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If that’s the first thing that you think of, it says more about you than it says about them.
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Simple build a freezer over the entire area and let the Chinese decide in 2099.
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Is this just random or from an actual piece of media?
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Random, freezing the conflict should be kinda obvious in meaning, 2099 and letting the Chinese sort it out is a reference to the actual hand over of Hong Kong from the British to the Chinese
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Conflict between groups of rich people are less common than between poor people or poor vs rich people.
My examples are europe, that was at constant war until most countries reached a high living standard. Even with Israel, many countries that were at war with it have stopped since they became richer.
So my solution is making everyone in palestine rich (israel is already rich enough), and I'm pretty sure that the conflict will start to disappear.
If you also remove religion from the region, both Islam and Judaism, and the support for atheism increase will be one less irrational conflict drive and one less differentiating fact between the two groups.
If you look at it invasion to a rich country is far less common than invasion to a poor country. So I think is something that may work.
Not only for Israel Palestine. Is a solution for most armed conflicts I think. Let's make the word rich so there's no economical differences between countries, and everyone will have a high standard of living and let's see if conflict get reduced.
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Cut off American funding to Israel.
Move Israels borders back to its 1945ish pre-Nakba borders. Return the land to the Palestians.
Prosecute every member of the IDF and all of its pro-genocide politicians at the Hague.
For any Israeli not spending the rest of their lives in jail, DNA tests for all of the rest. If they have markers that say their ancestors are from that area, they can stay. Every other one gets shipped back to their parent countries or any country that will take them.
The US is currently getting rid of plenty of "illegal" Hispanic people so there should be plenty of similar jobs/housing for any incoming Israelis. I mean we took in Nazis after WWII...
Let the flames begin.
Edit: And just to be clear, the DNA testing is merely a formality. Everyone knows whose ancestors are from that land. It's a return to pre-Zionist colonization that is the point of that. Plenty of Jews were in Palestine under the Ottomans prior to the demise of that empire.
It seems foolish to claim to understand these facts and still believe that something like a "two state" system can be enacted.
That's like expecting 18th and 19th century Americans being expected to actually honor their treaties with the natives. Why do the dance?
Unless the Palestinians decide otherwise to allow Israel to continue to exist or settlers to stay, etc., why hem and haw about it?
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For any Israeli not spending the rest of their lives in jail, DNA tests for all of the rest. If they have markers that say their ancestors are from that area, they can stay. Every other one gets shipped back to their parent countries or any country that will take them.
Not sure I like the idea of genetic purity tests as qualifiers to live in a country, for any country.
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Israel started to do this and then stopped when they realized that they were just Europeans.
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I'm nowhere near educated or even smart enough to have one. So I'll go with Tom Clancy's. This was in... shit. One of the later Jack Ryan books. Long story short, Jack Ryan is a history teacher who gets recruited by the CIA to do something. Terrorists (the Irish, then) attack his family, he gets in deeper with the CIA. He climbs the ranks (mostly without meaning to) and somehow winds up president (of the US). He retires and his son ends up a soldier in foreign wars. This is over the course of like 20 books Clancy wrote.
In one of those books, they pretty much solved the Middle East situation. The UN came in and basically cleared out Jerusalem, which they decided was the crux of the issues in the area. The Christians, the Jews, and the Muslims all claimed it as their holy city. So the UN kicked all of them to the curb. It then redistricted the city into a Christian district, a Muslim district, and a Jewish district, with that holy temple Christ used as a fourth, neutral district policed by Swiss (or Swedish, I forget — the "neutral" one) that any of them could enter but none could claim. It was like international waters in a sense.
I'm sure there was more to it and I'm sure Clancy had ideas that didn't go into the book.
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Stop funding israel and fund a moderate palestinian party instead
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automated turrets run by the UN general assembly (not the security council) to enforce the boundaries Israel agreed to before the nakba. If Israel wants to use bribery, fne, but they should be made to buy off half the world, not just the US.
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A one-state solution with a robust diplomatic and internal affairs structure to support claims of hostility and bigotry, run by a nonpartisan and multiethnic Arab-Israeli human rights coalition. Dismantle the Gaza wall and blockade, and integrate Hamas as a political party (if the Likud are fine, then the Knesset has no god damn excuse.) Maintain a UN-managed board of human rights as counsel and a referee in matters concerning integration. Review the arrest of every political prisoner in Israel, and release nonviolent offenders. Extend a formal apology to conscientious objectors. Revoke the mandatory IDF draft policy and switch to volunteer primacy. Take every step and every measure to ensure that Palestinians ARE, IN EVERY WAY, equal in a state that is no longer an ethnocracy. REBUILD GAZA, with Gazans in charge, starting with homes and hospitals.
Furthermore, extend right of return to Palestinians, irrevocably and in perpetuity.
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Depends. How much are we bending reality to make the question work? I'm going to need the resources of a superpower at absolute minimum. If I can change geography it obviously gets really easy, they're both on separate islands now.
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We have tried a two state solution for more than half a century, it doesn't seem to work.
What about a single state solution, lead by a government representing both jews and muslims?
As you may realize, I am not a diplomat nor a politician, I am just an IT guy who don't know shit.
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We have tried a two state solution for more than half a century
No. small bits of it were tried for very short amounts of time-- but there was never a state for Palestine that was free of Israeli dominance and was self determining. Israel itself fought the secular Fatah government that the Palestinians briefly set up for themselves and created and funded Hamas (at great cost) to overthrow Fatah and create exactly the situation we are in now. Fatah was explicitely secular by the way. Israel insisted that Hamas be created to be religious.
Theres just no way to make any sort of peace with hardcore supremecists. And Israelis are supremacists. At their very core they dont want peace, they want the dominance they see is their due, which is stated in a even moderately conservative reading of their religious books-- that non-jewish souls are fundamentally different and lesser than jewish ones-- regular humans souls can never be equal to jews-- we are closer to animals, and many of us are simply incapable of being "good". (do we need quotes for that? Say the word) So of course they feel no need to be honest in their dealings with lesser beings. And their books also outline that they should have a seperate set of moralities for dealing with jews and nonjews. Its trivially easy to read their books as an entire religious philosophy based on 'rules for thee and not for me'.
If you were a black skinned family and had a KKK chapter house move literally in your back yard and claim the land for their own, what would you do? Appeal to their sense of common humanity? Share the land that was yours? Try to appeal to the more moderate KKK voices? Not "slander" the good name of the KKK since only 90% of them are openly advocating for violence, rather than 100%? Cant judge an entire people on what just 90% of them say, eh? How unfair that would be! They might just be good people who happen to live in a KKK house!
This is their claim on the land of that region, and the reason they feel they can kill every lesser being on it. “To your descendants have I given this Land from the river of Egypt to the Euphrates River.” (Genesis 15:18)
They will cheerfully destroy the world seeking to assert their "right" from the book they wrote.
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March the UN in and take control of both sides. Extinguish both governments. Set up a deadline of 4 years to hold a single state election and state constitution. If not completed then they have to try again every four years.
Massive rebuilding projects funded by the UN but paying locals for the labor.
Establish modern healthcare for all.
Establish required education for all that requires 1 year abroad.
Remove all physical barriers.
Religious violence carries extra penalties.
Basically give them everything they need to figure it out and a common goal of seeking independence from the UN.
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I remember during the later part of the Troubles, one group set up an exchange student program, where junior- and senior-year Catholic and Protestant kids were sent to spend the year in the US, like regular exchange students. Except every host family took in two kids, matched in sex and roughly matched in age, one Catholic and one Protestant. Living together for a year in an alien country, they came to see each other as human, and friends.
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The UN has no executive power. The major arab countries sold themselves to Israel. The west never stopped supporting Israel.
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The only thing that exists religiously is violence.
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Whenever a country is surrounded by enemies, they have only two choices, conquer them, or be conquered. There are no other alternatives, maybe delays to the eventual outcome, it has to go one way or the other. Everything else is just delaying the ending.
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By that logic there would never be a border between a weak and strong country. So reality itself disproves your idea.
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My solution is to break out the popcorn, sit back and watch the comments fly.
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all countries should drop support for both sides and condemn them both for their extremist actions. neither side is in the right here and the only solution (without pulling a Vietnam and Korea) is to stop enabling them
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The terrorist state of Zionism has been massacring Palestinians since 1945.
Fuck off with the both sides crap.
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1948, but only because it's only been a state that long. The massacres kicked off properly in the late 1920s, but there were a few even before that.
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and hamas is a terrorist group that wants to establish a theocratic ethnostate just like other Islamic terrorist groups (which they have ties to). they are both attacking civilians, they are both attempting to establish ethnostates, they should both be condemned.
edit: grammar
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Removed by Moderator — Modlog
All that really needs to happen is for the US to drop their support for Israel. I think if that happened, the rest of the western world would follow suit.
Sure.
The question is, what are the general public going to feel and demand when the countries who hate Israel attack it and start killing large numbers of civilians.
Because the last time that happened, it resulted in the current support for Israel.
It's like people forget history.
Not really. The NYT ran an interesting article a couple years ago on generational support for Israel. [This is from memory, so don't get down on me for history or generation errors.] The people who reached adulthood in the 1940s and early 50s supported Israel wholeheartedly; they saw Israel as the underdog. The people who reached adulthood in the 60s and 70s saw the 1967 war and saw a militarized grown-up state holding it's own. The 80's and 90's adults saw them as over-weaponized and aggressive. And people reaching adulthood after 2000 saw them as overly aggressive, oppressive and approaching genocide (that opinion forming before the current genocide, obs).
The Israeli government knows the US opinion had been generationally changing as well. It's why they've invested so much money in AIPAC, news organizations and US politicians, and why they're constantly supporting older-generation politicians.
The vast majority of Israeli citizens are all in on this genocide. They love it! Let the Arabs overrun the place. I no longer give a fuck. They have forfeited their underdog card.