Serious: What is going to take to face the fascist threat in America?
As America backslides into fascism and authoritarian consolidation, what do you think should be done to course correct?
The two key turning points are going to be the midterms and when it comes time for the next election. Depending on how those events go, and if Trump hasn't died at some point in the next couple years (either from natural causes or because someone learns how to aim), things will likely go one of two wildly different directions.
If we actually have elections, and if the gerrymandering isn't so horrendous that it's impossible to overcome we'll hopefully see a Democrat elected and we'll start the incredibly slow crawl back to normalcy, hopefully with some significant reforms to make sure this shit doesn't happen again. The process is going to take decades to unwind all the damage Trump has managed in just a few years, but in theory we'll get there eventually.
On the other hand, we could go the opposite direction. Republicans retain the majority in the midterms, and then when the next primary comes around either we just don't have an election or Trump "wins" a 3rd term despite that being unconstitutional. At that point we're likely looking at either a civil war, or the US being defeated in a 3rd world war like Germany was in order to undo all this crap. Neither option is good and if things get to that point the world is fucked, the US doubly so.
we'll start the incredibly slow crawl back to normalcy, hopefully with some significant reforms to make sure this shit doesn't happen again
And then the democrats will lose the midterm, which will lock up Congress and maybe get the president impeached, and we’ll be back to this shit again.
This has happened every decade for my entire fucking life.
I can't believe people still have faith in fair elections. He tried to cheat his first win. He refused to leave after his loss to Biden and tried to overthrow the government. Then he cheated again last year.
And for some reason you think the midterms will be open and fair?! That he'll even hold them at all? Or will allow them to be fair without cheating or intimidation? Or will actually obey the results? He doesn't listen to Congress now! Why would he start if the Dems won?!
And if by some miracle all of that worked out you think the Dems are going to start fighting back now? This isn't a political fight. It's a class fight and most of the Dems are in the owner class. That's why they go along with all this.
Stop relying on the next election. You don't vote your way out of fascism. Totalitarian leaders do not value elections. He will not leave or give up power.
when the next primary comes around either we just don't have an election or Trump "wins" a 3rd term despite that being unconstitutional
And all the mainstream media will go about how this is an unusual turn with side panels of experts "debating" what Constitutional means...
The best of the worst cases is the US goes completely isolationist as the world turns from them and it all burns itself out into something different. I do not want this to spread out, and other countries need to pay attention once again and stop pretending it's fine. That's what really bothers me, even other leaders play the game instead of refusing to deal with him face to face. I guess they're doing that high road mess and using economic tactics to hit back.
Best case - mid terms have significant traction and shut him down, assuming he's still around. If he's not, Vance or whoever fails to keep what cultists there are still and there's something left to piece back together. But shit, it has to be better than what we had, otherwise it's just going to keep happening. In essence this is core Reconstruction failure and continued rot over more than a century. We really should have improved by now.
The oligarch should be banned from other countries. Why let them in to spread they're hate.
So the hope is that things are bad enough that voters finally learn their lesson but not bad enough that their votes don't matter....
Trump hasn't even been in a year yet. Shits going to go downhill.
They need to protest. REALLY protest. General strikes, obstruction, shut down everything. You can't walk around with a sign on a weekend once a month when it's nice outside and expect a wannabe dictator will back down. They are spendinrg every minute of every day stripping away your democracy and you have to fight back with the same intensity.
Look at Nepal. France. Italy. They didn't ask their government to listen. They MADE them. It's YOUR country! Fight for it!
I think what needs to be said here is- yes it's so terrible but in general day to day life for everyday Americans hasn't really changed. That and the general ignorance of things means that people really are not ready to "go strike" or do anything at all.
The overall attitude is more "this is slightly annoying at most" and that is not the attitude that leads to general strikes (nor can most afford to do that here anyway.)
Everyone on the outside in is saying this and that- most Americans don't know or aren't affected enough from what they understand to make those steps.
That is reality here. Like I get the arguments but you also have to understand it isn't bad enough for most people. My thought is once it is it'll all be way too late.
And France protested but it wasn't or wouldn't effect they're everyday life. But they obviously pay more attention.
Consider Spain, Argentina, France, Italy, Libya, Panama, Syria, Germany
The only thing that works once these fools get entrenched into the political machine is a good old fashioned ass whoopin.
FWIW this is why I think it’s so important to keep the farmers and union workers on our side. They are the means by which everything else is built upon. If they’re on the other side, well then the machine can keep on grinding.
Hey silver lining, Trump seems to be doing a really good job of pissing off the military leadership and the common soldiers as well. The only ones that are actually supporting him are nut jobs, the grifters who think they can use him, and executives who think they can squeeze more profit out by crawling up his ass.
As for farmers that's kind of a mixed bag. The problem isn't so much that they'll support him as it is that there might not be many of them left. Trumps policies are bankrupting farmers at a record rate and their farms are being snapped up by foreign holding companies. Most of them are going to end up working farms they no longer own.
FWIW this is why I think it’s so important to keep the farmers and union workers on our side.
WHELP
General strikes should have happened months ago. You're actively letting Maga normalize miltary troops quelling protests.
There is nothing to be done if your head is stuck in the old world, which is where 98% of Americans still live.
All I've seen on social media are two distinct camps: someone help us, please we don't want this, and are you fucking crazy I have a family and a job I cannot do anything.
Enjoy the fascism, you've earned it. You'll just have to learn your lesson the hard way, a la climate change. This is only a sneak preview of what happens when you ignore the obvious for too long.
Strikes no longer work in this Country. The strike would have to be until something happens. Like a hunger strike. The end is death Unless change. But I think we all know that isn’t going to happen
Exactly they are at war and don't want to do anything. Oh well they deserve what they get.
They got really, really fat, drunk and horny off the American exceptionalism post-WW2, and they never came down from the high.
This is that, catching up with them. They're not taking it well. Most of them still refuse to believe it.
Even my dumb as shit family members who voted for trump are beginning to turn on him. I don't think Americans really have any tolerance for his turn to fascist dictatorship. Sure, a few deplorables out there do - but we outnumber them 100 to 1.
Personally I think MAGA is going to eat itself. Especially if Trump dies in his sleep.
The real problem is this cycle will happen again in if we don't have a reckoning where the fascists and their sympathizers are made to permanently renounce those leanings. I think we should take their trigger fingers.
The problem is they are beginning to. They should have been against him way back in 2020 when he left
Taking their trigger fingers is probably the nicest thing I'd do
lol user name checks out
I mean... if we are to take the batman approach and let them live, then we need ironclad solutions to prevent this shit from happening again. Loss of trigger finger for sure. Make them record "I was wrong and my decisions led to the destruction of people's livelihoods and the deaths of innocent people. Do not let me do this again. Do not let other people do this in the future. We must learn from our mistakes and I will be held accountable for the rest of my life." and if they refuse to repeat that while facing a camera, then they get to rot in a cell until they do. Make those recordings public and make them watch those recordings. And they don't get to vote.
Renounce oh no they couldn't be lying about it. Oh no they would never do that. Sorry public executions.
For inspiration you can look into what the countries the US implanted dictatorships in did
It’s going to take everyone starving for people to care. I talk to my family and they say “what can we do, let the people who are supposed to fix this do their job”
Everywhere I look people are trying their best to look deeply into their tv shows, streams, video games, porn, etc and just waiting for this to impact them personally before they care enough to do something.
My husband has always said immigrants fleeing their country should stay behind and fight and now he’s looking at countries that would accept us.
I’m kinda at the point where nothing feels right. I don’t feel right. I’m on two antidepressants and I still feel trapped in this hell hole. I’ve always tried to vote and do the right thing and now I’m here.
I signed the strike card at the general strike website but it’s taking too long before they call the strike. I fear that website will get raided and all the sign ups will be lost. 😞
Honestly I’m really pissed we all didn’t start rioting when the Supreme Court ruled it’s okay to racially profile us. That should have been the breaking point for us all.
My husband has always said immigrants fleeing their country should stay behind and fight and now he’s looking at countries that would accept us.
That's interesting. I've always agreed with that logic. But I've decided to stick it out no matter what happens.
I signed the strike card at the general strike website but it’s taking too long before they call the strike. I fear that website will get raided and all the sign ups will be lost. 😞
Unfortunately that's not how strikes work. They need critical mass or it will do nothing. It needs to have everyone on the list willing to risk their house, home, and livelihood to make it happen. And to you need to realize not even close to enough people are willing to do so.
If you haven't already, try getting a union involved in your workplace, as a unionized workplace will allow far more successful organization of such events. Align a union you create yourself with your coworkers with UAW's mass strike line, join their cause
Unfortunately I’ve been laid off. So creating a union right now in this economy won’t do much good. I heard the jobs report was massively worse than they made it out to be.
So I guess I’ll have to wait until more people feel the impacts of the failing economy.
Discover socialism. Not commie tanky left authoritarian bullshit. Just the moderate basic human decency stuff.
Old fashioned people caring about each other. Workers supporting each other. Vets supporting each other. Women supporting each other. Families supporting each other. Neighborhoods supporting each other. Inclusivity. Opportunity. Holding out a hand to the less fortunate. Redistributing wealth so people can have dignity and hope.
Start with taking back schools as safe places from gun massacres. If you can't do that you can't do shit. It's a basic litmus test for a functional society. Take back streets for pedestrians. Take prisons and hospitals away from corporations. Get rid of tipping in favour of a fair living wage. Take a fucking holiday occasionally. It won't kill you.
The problem is Americans are kept ignorant about what is possible. In place of knowledge all they have is lies. What is the point of change if you don't even know what you want. You will just end up with more of the same.
On god please. However,
Start with taking back schools as safe places from gun massacres. If you can't do that you can't do shit. It's a basic litmus test for a functional society.
Is not even close to true. There's far more important issues to tackle that kill more kids. Focusing on that as the baseline when it's tiny compared to the damage companies environmental damage and car do to kids is mixed priorities. We can focus on multiple things, but the priority should be on what's killing the children in far greater numbers compared to the much smaller totals of school shooters. Focusing only on the sensationalist headlines instead of the greater dangers is misdirection from what truly is at the root of the damage to our society .
Which also makes it interesting you point out all Americans have is lies, when you yourself were fed the lie that the most concerning danger to children is guns, instead of cars, or pollution
Every time I say it I get banned. I say, we remove the people who silence us.
Yeah they will just shut us down.
Librarians?
Fascists!!!!!!!!!!!!! Close the book on them.
People, on the whole, will choose the easiest path.
People are also really bad at estimating risk, usually overestimating short term risks and underestimating long term risks.
So what happens is that people choose what they estimate to be the easiest path, based on their faulty ideas about what the short and long term risks are.
Which means that in order for real change to happen - by whatever means - people have to perceive that the immediate risk of change is lower than the future risk of staying the same.
America won't course-correct until it is forced to do so.
The political establishment is so totally insulated in a media bubble that there's no way to reach them, internal pressures can be safely ignored. Only external pressure can change this country now.
8647
Nothing, look to pre War Germany
A significant percentage of people supoort this, many, many others think they're not going to be targeted and this will all blow over.
The American Empire is falling apart, and has been for quite some time now, what we're seeing right now is a childish trashing about and refusing to accept reality or adapt to present global conditions. Every year, more and more countries that used to be pro-US turn neutral, and countries that used to be neutral turn towards China. The US will become more and more isolated, diplomatically, economically, and so forth, and it will become increasingly impossible to pretend that it's "#1," while domestic conditions get worse and worse.
Soon, if not already, we will be in a situation where the only credible advantage the US has to leverage is the military, and it may choose to start WWIII with China in a desperate attempt to stay on top.
The ruling bourgeoisie don't really want this, they're doing just fine in the current system, but stoking fear and hate of the Other distracts from problems at home. The danger is that some true believer is going to get into a position of power. Someone who isn't just saber-rattling to justify giving more money to the CEOs of Raytheon and Lockheed Martin so they can buy another beach house, but who actually sees a hot war between major, nuclear-armed powers as desirable. The further conditions deteriorate, and the longer we go on with fear and hate being stoked, the more this possibility becomes an inevitability.
If that happens, everyone will lose. If somehow it remains contained and doesn't end life on earth (as it probably will), then, win or lose, the US will be finished. Maybe the US could throw everything it's got into stopping China, but then another power will emerge and it'll be spent.
To avert this future, we need a radical left wing shift, with drastic cuts to the military and the money going towards improving ordinary people's lives and addressing various domestic crises. The US is not Superman, we are not invulnerable, we do not have the ability to go around the world "fixing" every situation everywhere. Instead, we need to focus on the things we can control, starting with within our own borders. Because when the world sees us falling apart, why would anyone want to follow us anywhere? And repairing domestic issues would go a long way to averting the rise of fascism.
But unfortunately, nobody seems to want this, Republican or Democrat. Every administration keeps funnelling more and more money towards the military, keeps getting involved in conflicts and resorting to force, and keeps failing to address domestic problems. No, we can't just mind our own business and focus on getting our own shit sorted out, we have to go send bombs to Syria and Yemen and Palestine and Ukraine, bombs bombs bombs, the only currency the US uses in international diplomacy. If we had spent a tenth of the money we're spending fighting over Ukraine on making life better for ordinary Ukrainians after the end of the Soviet Union, there wouldn't be a war. And right now, there are tons of countries that are slipping away because we're too stingy to spend that 1/10th on them (of even on our own people), because building bombs instead helps the rich get richer. But nobody cares. It's madness.
Either we have some broad social reckoning with our obsession with militarism and hatred of the poor and forigners, or we stay on this idiotic course until we drive off a cliff.
The only real path out of this is economic collapse.
The administration has engineered a clever slow rolling authoritarian takeover. There is no single line in the sand that you can point to and say this is where authoritarianism starts or this is where fascism starts. And pointing out a dozen things sounds hyperbolic "oh you think everything's fascism".'
The American citizens are going to sit here like a slowly boiling frog as long as there's never one singular shock. And unless there's a tea party-esque movement on the left in 26 the Democrats are not coming to save us.
But if there's a crash like '08, and they're very well could be, they're not going to be able to sound bite their way out of that.
The American citizens are going to sit here like a slowly boiling frog as long as there’s never one singular shock.
I'm fine with the analogy but always want to point out: they ran the experiment, the frog jumps out. To take the analogy too far, we're worse than frogs.
No idea. ICE is blatantly breaking the law and local police are not arresting them.
There are no laws; we made the whole thing up
I have been thinking about this for quite a while, and I think I have a pretty solid solution. Now, keep in mind, it is easy to dismiss it because it is simple, but once you dig into it you will see the benefits. I propose on-fire things.
I know, I know, but just consider it before you write it off. Yo dont have to go all-in, maybe dabble a little and see how it feels.
Ensure the venture isn't profitable.
I said kill the profiteers, not the profits
That is one method to achieve the above, but the problem is we keep making more of them and always will. They don't just go away because you killed the strongest ones, it signals out to the others that a vacuum is available for them to inhabit. The system has to change to invalidate them or we just end up playing Psycho/Sociopath Whack-a-mole until eternity.
It’ll be like McCarthyism, it will be allowed to go way way too far, then in an instant it’ll be stopped, shunned and everyone will be repulsed by it. It‘s well on its way to the same fate.
We never undid the damage of McCarthyism and he didn’t have the military terrorizing civilians and Gestapo kidnapping people
Oh I’m not claiming it’s no big deal or that either this situation or McCarthyism aren’t terrible, and this is absolutely a worse situation. Right now a lot of people supporting all of this are in denial of how bad it is.
I think what Germany did to get corporate money out of government is miniscule to what America will have to do.
Massive job losses.
Haven't you been paying attention? Lots of people are. What are you doing?
Violence is the only way
Unfortunately, this.
Probably having time off of work and not being too tired from living paycheck to paycheck unfortunately.
We need wide public support and organizing against the regime.
progressives buying in to 2A. Do what the black panthers did.
Americans won't do anything. They'll let it happen. They're fat cowards with a head full of US exceptionalism propaganda.
The only thing that might save them is Trump is old and his brain is turning to pure cholesterol. When he dies, that will kill MAGA. Other people will try to fill his shoes, but MAGA is a purely Trump cult. It isn't about ideas, truth, values, or changing anything. It's just praying to an orange pig-god.
MAGA will eventually eat it's own head - and I think it will be bloody and violent against itself.
The only hope is all the damage Trump and MAGA are currently doing can be undone. It will take decades to restore US relations with other countries. You'll need to change how the administration can be held accountable to laws. Fix the supreme court. People (ICE agents, everyone in the admin committing crimes, etc) will need to see the inside of prison cells to prove the "American way" prevails. Without that, there is no reason people won't try again.
If I were a betting person, I would put money on the US fracturing in the next 10 years though. It's too far down the hole now.
I wish you were wrong. Occasionally societies hit huge decision points when something outrageous happens and they have an opportunity to rise together and overcome adversity and become their better selves. And the world looks on with awe and respect.
The US had this opportunity after Columbine. And every month or so after for decades. After each outrage to parents and society so horrible you think surely they will act now. But they never do.
That is how you know they don't have what it takes to stand up to authoritarians. If they did they would have done what any decent society would have done years ago. They don't have it sadly. They are waiting for Superman or Captain America to save them. Mythological heroes are the only sort they have now.
Boycotting any business which encourages discrimination against people, government surveillance. Engage in community outreach, teaching your fellow community members about socialism and progressivism and nationalism. Also shaming and calling out people who support them. Dont be too much of a dick about it. Just simply tell them they are evil for supporting those people who victimize the innocent and steal all of our tax money, and try to brainwash everyone with algorithms and advertising backed influencers.
Also get out and vote blue no matter who until the Republicans stop supporting the state and then unify with them to get rid of the state so we can reform our system, kick out the rich, and take back control of our laws and state. You need to vote in every election, even if you have no chance of winning. We also need to do our own polling to ensure they are not tampering with the votes.
Do not date anyone who is maga, tell them why as well. Tell them they need to either support the common people or they need be happy being alone with their big paychecks as they support the state. Materialism or humanism. Until we can reinstate democracy and reform the state and our laws. We cannot compromise with those people in any type of way. We have to start from the ground and work our way up. Also make sure you show up to jury duty to support your fellow citizens against the hostile anti American judicial system. Do not allow religion in your home. If you see people wearing religious symbols in your business, that comes from the big 3, then ask them to leave, since these same maga businesses do the same to non Christians. Observe no anti discrimination laws which protect religious people but do not protect queer people. Don't get yourself sued or put in prison but there are many ways you can keep those people out of your community and make it hard for them. They don't belong here unless they support the people and democracy and human rights first. If they want to strip people of human rights then do not observe their human rights. Don't let them be hypocrites.
Well stopping the nazis required intervention from other countries. As a Canadian, I really hope my country doesn't have to intervene. But it seems the only other way to stop this, besides intervention from outside, is violent revolution from within.
🔫 probably...
A general strike would be way more effective, but Americans are apathetic cowards.
So the best we will probably get is a rapid decline until someone fed up who is violent and skilled lands a good shot.
The second amendment should be scrapped after this. Everyone who argued we need this to prevent government overreach are all just cowards.
seriously: split the country up into two.
something like that. doesn't have to be exactly like that.
the reason is simply because i believe that there are irreconciliable differences between the rural population and the coastlines. you can't have one government with one set of policies if the people clearly want two very different policies. what is the point in that? the government should help the people as much as possible, not continuously piss off half of the population.
maybe something like the EU can be done, where you have individual states, but they have some laws in common ...
edit: also i should mention that i believe that it is easier to hold your politicians accountable if they live closer-by to you. like, in medieval times, if the landlord made some laws that pissed the people off too much, they would walk to his home with pitchforks and torches and demand change. You can't have that if your representative politicians live more than 30 miles away, really.
Not all of Illinois will go. There's an active group that wants to break off from Chicago. Yes it's rural downstate. Iowa probably won't go. Source: me, I grew up about 45 miles from the Iowa border in rural Illinois. Ive seen what it's like
For the Ostriches to pull their heads out of each others asses and see where their troubles comes from. They wont notice until its at their door.
Just FYI, self posts are usually closed and directed to !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world instead
Rules are for fascists
If I recall, killing Nazis worked in WWII.
Except we didn't kill any American Nazis, we just left them alone to fester
Hell, we imported a few of them from Germany.
We fought fascists overseas to keep us from fighting fascists at home...
As part of an organized war between opposing imperialist nations. I’m not seeing how that’s going to happen here.
Clearly we need a civil war
when are you gonna kill a fascist? i think you're an empty troll
I think you voted for Trump